The decline of FG?

You can cross reference what found it's way into the PFG from this document.

https://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/08/fine-gael-new-politics-march-2010.pdf

Francie, you are talking rubbish.

Look at the PFG, you will see a bullet point with each objective.

• We will give committees the power to introduce legislation, while a new 10 MinuteRule will allow backbench TDs to introduce their own Bills. We will also tackle thehuge over-use of guillotines to ram through non-emergency legislation

• We will introduce a package of changes that will bring about a 50 per cent increase in Dáilsitting days. Dáil Éireann will in future meet four days a week. There will be a summer recessof just six weeks and significantly reduced breaks at Christmas and Easter. We will abandonthe practice of providing a “mid-term break” – a full week off at St Patrick’s Day andHallowe’en. When the Dáil is not in session the Committees shall agree by roster that aparticular Committee shall meet in the Dáil Chamber.

• We propose to break the Government monopoly on legislation and the stranglehold over thebusiness of the Dáil, by providing that the new Friday sittings will be given over exclusivelyto committee reports and private members business except where urgent government businessmust be taken.

• We will enhance the democratic process by involving public representatives at an earlier stageof the legislative process, particularly before Bills are published. We will amend cabinetprocedure instructions so as to allow government to publish the general scheme of a Bill sothat Oireachtas Committees can debate and hold hearings at an early stage.

• • While recognising that there may be exceptional circumstances in which debate may need tobe concluded by a given deadline, we will restrict the use of guillotine motions and otherprocedural devices that prevent Bills from being fully debated, so that guillotining is not amatter of routine as it has become at present, particularly at the end of a session.

• • We will also deal with the related problem of legislation being shunted through at high speedand will ensure that Dáil standing orders provide a minimum of two weeks between eachstage of a Bill, except in exceptional circumstances.

• • In order to enhance the role of the legislative committees, we will organise a committee weekevery fourth sitting week. The Dáil plenary will sit only for questions, including Leaders’ Government for National Recovery 2011-201623Questions and the order of business and the remainder of the day will be taken up incommittee.

• • We will establish a petition system to the Dáil, similar to that operating in the EuropeanParliament, to be managed by a specific Dáil committee that will investigate and report onpetitions which raise issues warranting attention.

• • We will enhance the parliamentary relationship with the European Parliament in conjunctionwith Ireland’s MEPs. These arrangements will include regular attendance by MEPs atrelevant Dáil committees.

• • We will legislate and change Dáil standing orders to ensure the absolute confidentiality ofinformation entrusted to members of the Dáil by their constituents or informants, and ensurethat such information cannot be compulsorily disclosed through the legal process except withthe consent of the informant.

• • We will significantly revamp the adjournment debate format. It will be renamed the topicalissue debate. There will be a minimum of 5 topical issues. These will be taken in the middleof the day and there will be provision for questions at the end. A Minister or Minister of Statefrom the relevant Department will be present and there will be an end to the practice of onejunior Minister reading out scripts on behalf of a number of Departments about a range ofissues of which he or she knows nothing.

• • The standing orders on urgent issues are used regularly to attempt to raise issues that are noturgent and such requests are almost invariably refused. We will make the Dáil rules forraising urgent issues more meaningful by requiring a minimum number of signatories for sucha request.

• • In future standing order 32 requests will not be read out

Which of these were or were not done.

Please be explicit.

I pointed out to another poster a specific action proposed and asked what has been done. I see you ignored that.

This isn't a thread on opposition parties though, it's about FG, which by the laws of political science directly includes FF, hence FFG, and by extension the greens and Labour. My position isn't that "I don't know who I'm voting for" just that it's irrelevant to the topic of the thread

Since you asked, my personal preference would be for a left leaning government. One that might actually be able to fix our housing and health crises but also stand up to the far right movement rather than cower away, or worse, join them!

Care to comment on the bullet point list?

Which one of them, from the PFG were NOT done? Please be exact please as you have a habit in talking in grand narratives with no to little details.

Is that really all you picked up from everything I said? It's genuinely disappointing to see this level of concentration among voters. Although it does explain recent local election results

So are you saying a government party with a majority of 51(FG) seats to 20 (Labour) (35% - 19%) immediately welched on a major policy promise the minute they went into negotiations to form a government? Really?

And you still vote for them???

Its a coalition Francie.

If or when your beloved SF get into power, they will have to comprimise too. Sure didn't they let the UK run NI for them? ;)

If you can point out the bits from the PFG that they did not enact….

I gave you enough rope and you hung yourself. Selected some stuff and tried to pretend.

Directly transmuted into the PFG from New Politics we have this:

We will ensure our Government is seen to be held to account

Did they?
No they absolutely did not do that.

They totally welched on it and did nothing to give SIPO the powers it needed. They made FOI harder and they circled wagons around the very behaviour that required New Politics to end it.

Charlatans in regard to that and that is why people stopped voting for them. I.E. Their vote declined.

More grand angry narratives.

No detail

No substance

Nothing but the usual hot air.

And you refuse to answer the question on the 3rd time of asking.

Also, you edited that quote. Fake News added to the list as well.

Doubling down on telling me you don't understand how a coalition government works without telling me you don't understand how a coalition government works by telling me you didn't understand my post without telling me you didn't understand my post.

I am making the point that you clearly don't understand how coalition governments work. You have demonstrated that now over three posts.

I am not going to repeat myself, as my point gets ever clearer each time you post a response. Your posts demonstrate that you don't understand how coalition government works.

I listed 20 odd action items about Dail Reform.

Which one of those did they and did not do.

Its a simple question, one you cannot answer, because you want to talk in great narratives.

Like MLMD, you have no idea for details but want to sell a story to someone, expect no one bothers with you anymore.

Look, I can do nothing more than show you what New Politics was and what was transposed into the PFG. Actual concrete proof that it was there to be achieved:

You @markodaly @blanch152 want to deny it is there, by:
1. Trying to demean the poster by ridiculous claims that they don't understand.

2. Post smokescreens about stuff that may or may not have been achieved.

You will strenuously try and stop the conversation moving on to why they didn't even try to achieve it and why their vote declined as a result. Some voters fell off the wagon after the 1st term and others, like myself after 2016.

You appeared with an irrelevant list.

.Nobody said ‘they did nothing’

The conversation was about key promises they DID NOT fulfil.

You have been caught out trying to take the focus away from that failure and the subsequent decline in their vote.

Who cares about facts, 

Clearly you don't, You have been trying to deny that key elements of New Politics were there in the PFG.

I will try to move it on from that deflectionary sidebar.
I think that it was FG's exploitation of a deep desire for reform and change that led to their incremental decline over the next two GE's. Quite simply, led by Enda Kenny they played an exhausted, shocked and angry electorate.
10% gave up on them doing what they promised in 2016 and another 9% threw the towel in by 2020.
I have heard no credible explanation for that kind of actual vote loss just denial and excuses really.

The problem with your hypothetical situation is that a hypothesis is meant to be based on something that could possibly happen. Firstly, SF is not left-wing. Secondly, even combined with the left-wing parties, there is no possibility that they could all get 88 seats.

If any party or potential coalition runs 88 candidates or more there is every hypothetical chance that they would rule should that be the wish of the people…

SF aren't a party of the left? Well that is a new one… Care to explain further how you came to that conclusion?

You have a very strange understanding of politics

As I said, a hypothesis is something that can possibly happen. The left getting a majority in the next election excluding Labour and the Greens as you have suggested is not a hypothesis. It is a fantastical notion.

As for SF not being left, here is something from over a year ago which might enlighten you:

https://internationalsocialist.net/en/2023/08/left-politics

Yes, but the basic premise for criticising the PBP is that SF is no different to FF and FG, and the article explains in depth why they believe this is so.

Furthermore, SF, as we know, are against water taxes, LPT and carbon tax, which puts them on the right-wing of European politics, which, when taken with their recent dog-whistling on immigration, as well as their rabid nationalism, the only party possibly to the overall right of them is Aontu.

I think the UK, Europe fought those battles for us after the wars... we kind of just tagged along.