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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 947 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    restarting the thread with an impressive video from the archives: ATACMS vs Russian S400 battery from back in May 2024.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 884 ✭✭✭Norrie Rugger Head


    Finally a new unborked thread

    They're eating the DOGS!!!

    Donald Trump 2024



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    I think the title should be “Three Day War (continuing)” instead, important to keep reminding everyone how much Putin has miscalculated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,235 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭Suckler




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Twitter not loading but seen this on telegram.

    GUR units inside the aggregrate plant in Vovchansk and have apparently cleared it. This was the most strategic position Russia held. Excellent news now let's hope they can push the bastards out.

    In less positive news Vuhledar is being hit like never before. The Russians must feel now is the time.

    https://t.me/noel_reports/17978



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭flutered


    from profesor phillips p obrien, bad news. its long, you can google him

    [MOD..ish]

    Deleted terrible posted images which was breaking browsers.

    Manic_Moran

    [/MOD…ish]

    Post edited by Manic Moran on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,185 ✭✭✭rameire


    here was me thinking the thread will be all fine, its new and then post 8.

    🌞 3.8kwp, 🌞 Split 2.28S, 1.52E. 🌞 Clonee, Dub.🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,295 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    @flutered can you please edit your last post … copy and paste of the article with media is causing thread to hang and and freeze.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    Post 8 is preventing the page from loading.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,722 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Can't even report post #8 for messing up Chrome. Drives the memory usage threw the roof. @Ten of Swords is the mod here right? Can they do something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,657 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    clearly a cunning DDOS attack on this thread :D



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    OK. I have no idea how or why since I'm not a mod on here, but apparently I have edit rights, so since my browser also crashed when attempting to report the post, I just deleted it.

    @flutered , feel free to have another crack at linking to whatever article that was, but whatever way you pasted it last time, please don't do it again!

    That said, I looked up the guy you were referencing, he just released his 'how the analysts got it wrong in 2022' report. Working through it now.
    https://docs.publicnow.com/viewDoc?filename=109644%5CEXT%5C7229F84E25694194BAAE19FB1EDBF5B08993921A_07A5B1A7A075ABB54B07BFEA1327C73C1779A681.PDF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    BBC Ukrainecast podcast to their credit do this still “Day XYZ of this war” at start of every episode

    Anyways I’m dreading the day when I wake up and find out on the news that half of europe if irradiated after Putin created a Chernobyl or worse type situation

    A lot of countries and their politicians and populations in Europe sadly might find out that radiation knows no “red lines”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,520 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Putin Is Doing Something Almost Nobody Is Noticing

    In November 2022 my editors asked me to be careful about what I ate and stop ordering takeout. Initially, I didn’t think much of it. But I soon realized the importance of their advice when, just one month later, my colleague Elena Kostyuchenko discovered she had been poisoned in Germany, in a probable assassination attempt by the Russian state.

    Such stories have become routine. Last year an investigative journalist, Alesya Marokhovskaya, was harassed in the Czech Republic; in February the bullet-riddled body of a Russian defector, Maxim Kuzminov, was found in Spain. In both cases, the Kremlin was assumed to be involved. Russian opposition figures know well that even in exile they remain targets of Russia’s intelligence services.

    But it’s not just them who are in danger. There are also the hundreds of thousands of Russians who left home because they did not want to have anything to do with Vladimir Putin’s war or were forced out, accused of not embracing it enough. These low-profile dissenters are subjected to surveillance and kidnappings, too. Yet their repression happens in silence, away from the spotlight and often with the tacit consent or inadequate prevention of the countries to which they have fled.

    Opinion | Putin Is Hunting Down Ordinary People All Over the World - The New York Times (nytimes.com)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,520 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    30+ buildings cleared and apparently around 2 dozen prisoners taken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭flutered


    sorry about my mess up last night, if some one can explain to me how to copy and paste from the new hotmail app i would appreciate it, will now try again to post what i tried to post last night, i will attempt to post it in more than one part, unfortunatly it means bad news for ukraine

    https://substack.com/redirect/8eb1db78-326f-49e9-98a2-8f2b89d8b6a1?j=eyJ1IjoiMTJzNXJrIn0.XMuxXGLIpAZR6hBysKxtUXocT1Mnx_GIssPFbfMj7c0



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭flutered


    part two

    Phillips’s Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

    Depressingly, everything you hear in Washington (from people who know far more than I), is that the administration is almost entirely united in opposition to giving Ukraine this capacity. With supposedly the sole exception of Antony Blinken and the State Department, every other major figure—Def Secretary Austin, NS Advisor Sullivan, and it must always be understood, President Biden, remains opposed. If this basic situation does not change, the USA will end up rejecting the Ukrainian victory plan in the next few days—with what I would say would be terrible results.

    Btw, the Washington Post published a really good story on the state of the debate this morning—which matches very well to what I am hearing. Here is a link if you can read.

    So the US really is on what seems to me to be on the precipice of foreign/strategic policy failure. This is a failure not for Ukraine—but for the USA. It shows how utterly deficient (and in some cases warped) the US debate is when it comes to the national interest, how policy makers would rather make terrible choices than admit that they were wrong, and should be a warning to US allies and friends about just how fundamentally unreliable the USA can be in a crisis. I thought I would provide a brief outline of why

    The Other Option is Worse

    In the last few days, its become crystal clear how poor specifically President Biden is in understanding Ukraine and the US national interest, and I will say alot about this now. However, no matter how poor Biden is, Trump always pops up to remind you that he is even worse. If Biden had stayed in the race, it would leave the US facing a choice of failure or catastrophe, which is remarkable.

    Starting with Trump, yesterday he once again showed that he is basically a mouthpiece for the Putin position and the interests of the Russian leader. In his campaign rally , when he addressed the question of Ukraine, he stated completely without hesitation and doubt, that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was the fault of the USA.

    Its the foundation of the Putin argument (which even Russians dont take that seriously) that it was the USA pushing to expand NATO (which it actually wasnt doing) in specifically to put Ukraine in the alliance (which the US was opposing) that gave Russia no option but to invade Ukraine for its own security (which is nonsensical).

    Its the tragedy of US foreign policy now, that the Biden administration (which has failed in a number of areas) remains preferable to turning US policy over to Trump.

    Biden is Questionable Too

    In my recent book The Strategists, I discuss how the earlier war experiences of war of Churchill, Roosevelt, Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini (primarily in World War I), played a great role in shaping their grand strategic decisions in World War II. I do believe that leaders, especially very self-confident ones, often take their earlier lived experiences and apply them to the present.

    Btw—we discussed these examples and reflected on Biden in this online event yesterday at CSIS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭flutered


    part three

    Joe Biden seems to be doing this now in his handling of Russia. Though people often think he was in lock-step with someone like Senator McCain during the Cold War—Biden was actually on the softer side when it came to the USSR. He was a strong advocate of arms control and a skeptic when it came to US weapons development, etc. In other words, he believed in trying to contain escalation.

    He has always treated Russia since the full-scale invasion (and arguably from 2014 onwards) in the same vein. It helps explain his great reluctance to provide Ukraine with major weapons systems from before Feb 24, 2022, and why the US lags behind many/most European states to this day. Biden has a mind-set where aiding Ukraine in certain ways will antagonize Putin too much, and seems dead-set against it.

    Sidebar: Biden is also seemingly aging even faster than expected. I don’t know if you say the video of him speaking to the press on the White House lawn a few days ago. It was frankly terrifying how stiff and slow he has become. Its probably also the case that his thinking has become more rigid—and certainly when asked about long range weapons for Ukraine he sounded more irritated than anything else. All I can say is thank god he has withdrawn from the race—or my guess is that we would be definitely facing a President Trump in Jan 2025.

    And he seems to be clinging on to this til the end when it comes to long-range fire. If he does, he is basically rejecting the Ukrainian victory strategy and saying to Ukraine you must fight the war the way I want you to—which is disastrous. Its a defensive—battlefield minded war, which means Ukraine will be bombarded mercilessly by Russian at range this winter, and Ukraine will have to fight the Russians at the front primarily, and not try to weaken the Russians from the rear.

    The other frightening thing is that Biden seems very much to be losing interest overall in aiding Ukraine. For the last year he has actually significantly underspent the available aid he could give to Ukraine. In early 2024, when Congress cut off aid, he still had access to over $1billion in aid he could have given Ukraine—but chose not to.

    Now we are in a more ludicrous situation. Though Ukraine needs as much aid as possible—partly to still offset the losses from early 2024, the US has chosen not to deliver $6billion worth of aid that it was supposed to give by the end of September. There are plans to try and extend the time limit for this aid—but the fact remains that the administration has access to much more aid for Ukraine and it is deciding not to send it.

    Tbh, I think the Biden administration seems more interested in forcing Ukraine to give up large pieces of its territory for a deal with Putin. Something along the second scenario that I discussed here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭flutered


    part four, i hope you enjoyed professor o briens paper

    So we are in a real dilemma. Trump wants to abandon Ukraine (he does—just accept that) while Biden seems so intransigent, stuck in his personal mindset, and determined not to threaten Putin too much, that he is losing interest in helping Ukraine win.

    Its why the US, I would argue, is on the precipice of failure in foreign/strategic policy (once again).

    The Fundamental Failure to Understand the “National” Interest.

    Another issue I take on in The Strategists, is the idea that there is something called the “national interest” that leaders pursue while in power. If there is anything we are seeing now, its that national interest is entirely the creation of the mind-set of the leader and his/her advisers. In the case of Trump, he would like to weaken the USA completely, by throwing Ukraine to the wolves, dissolving bonds with Europe, and cozying up to dictators such as Putin, Xi and Kim Jong-Un.

    He has completely conflated the national interest with his personal interest and ego, and were he President again he would weaken the country.

    Biden is not this bad, but in his conception of the “national” interest, he is willing to risk a disaster for Europe and, I would argue, for the USA as well. Ukraine has given the US an amazing opportunity to end the European security dilemma for a few generations. If Ukraine were helped to defeat Russia, retain its territory, and then be provided membership of the EU and NATO, European security would be militarily fixed for decades.

    The US really could wind down a great deal of its strategic expense on the continent and re-orient to the Indo-Pacific. It could help with intelligence, logistics and the like, but Europe with Ukraine as a victorious power will have military security over Russia for the foreseeable future.

    If, however, through fear of escalation and of destabilizing Putin, the USA ends up both forcing the hand-over of Ukrainian territory to Putin (providing some validation for the Russian full-scale invasion) and then allowing Russia a nice window to rearm while keeping Ukraine insecure and unstable—it will mean either the US has to send more force to Europe than it does now, or that it walks away from Europe. The former will cost alot, the latter will lose the US its most important pillar of international strength.

    In the case of both Trump and Biden, we have politicians actively pushing for policies that are, imho, against the national interest.

    The reality we face is that unless Harris wins and goes in a new direction (or unless the Biden administration sees the light in the next few days), the USA is facing

    a question of how much it wants to weaken itself internationally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,520 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Always with the escalation. Who escalated what? Ship of fools.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Putin is being weakened by the month… to let him off the hook now would be a massive miscalculation. They really should be looking at redoubling their efforts to squeeze him out asap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭rogber


    On the one hand the escalation stuff is annoying on the other hand just maybe Western leaders know things that boards posters don't and have a reason for caution?

    That's the better explanation than the alternative which several people have also floated: that they prefer a long war than a true Ukrainian victory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭flutered


    here the ukranians are trolling the russians, the writing on the side of the drone means debris in russian



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,520 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    It's comforting to think so and I would like it to be the case. It's all speculation either way. They know something that justifies caution or they don't. Or they're just not taking it as serious as maybe they should. I'm more on Europe's case than the US in this regard though.

    The boldest agitators towards Russia are right on their doorstep including two countries joining NATO and we've yet to see additional aggression towards them from Russia. What's the big risk? Increase cyber attacks? More waves of migrants? Putin's cross face? I just don't think they're dumb enough to go for Da Bomb. So unfortunately we're stuck speculating why the brakes are still firmly on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    All politics ends in failure, Putin has been around for 2 decades now long enough to learn and practice survival, in the twentieth century most Russian leaders hang on until they go to the grave. Khrushchev and Gorbachov being the exception.

    The only active political force on the ground are the so called Z-patriots (i.e. Russian nationalists). The liberals have been shut down or fled the country and most of the population does not not get involved in politics. Putin will eventually be taken down even if he wins a nominal victory, the Z men won't want to go back to obscurity. Anyone who wants to rise to power will need backing from one faction or other.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    So reading between the lines with this latest round of nuclear sabre rattling. Russia must be hurting after the Kursk black eye and most of ammo they were going to use to take it back has gone up in smoke.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Why are thousands of young, able bodied men from Ukraine walking the streets of our country and across western Europe while young Irish men are travelling to their country to help in the war effort against Russia with many returning in body bags.?????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Why are there millions of Russians in EU and now millions more can come in via Hungary without background checks, including rapists, murderers and criminals



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 562 ✭✭✭junkyarddog


    You can take the orc out of russia……🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,484 ✭✭✭macraignil


    putin and his terrorists have made huge numbers of innocent Ukrainian people homeless by demolishing their homes with military brutality and the EU have made many of them welcome in their time of need. Not all of them are willing to fight in a war that putin and his supporters have declared against the western world, but whatever the reasons, it is putin and those that allow him remain in power that are responsible for thousands of people ending up in body bags and millions having lost their homes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,586 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Ukraine would have reserved the use also if they didn’t sign a deal with Russia to give theirs up for guarantees of peace.


    They won’t make that mistake again. Russia are pathological liars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,741 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭Polar101


    I guess we'll see if Western red lines are more dangerous than Russian red lines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    One crappy Russian regime caused a nuclear catastrophe almost 40 years ago, now another crappy regime is threatening another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 279 ✭✭Jon Doe


    If by "Western" you mean German, you'll find they're non-existent.

    If by "Western" you mean Baltic, you'll find that it's only a matter of time until we're getting reports of suicide runs on Russian NPPs…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Tbf by letting these Russians out of Russia doesn't it harm the Russian economy and boost the EU? In that case drain as much from Russia as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 947 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    German-supplied Ukrainian Skynex air defence system destroying a Russian drone with a stream of 35mm shells.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,782 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Depends. At CERN the Swiss atomic collidar they sent any Russian scientists away for fear of sabotage and espionage. Kremlin and Russian scientists were crying russophobia. But in practical terms it was the correct decision. The Kremlin have absolute control of their own abroad and home. Generally they all comply for fear of death to themselves or family and they'd have komprimat material to ensure compliance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Depends if those Russians are of the educated kind or the raping and murdering criminal kind

    Since Hungary is deliberately dropping Schengen visa checks it’s going to endup the later

    Only higher up page we have an articles from New York Times about Russians carrying out sabotage and assassinations all across Europe with multiple examples given

    IMHO there shouldn’t be a single Russian permitted into the “west” while they on a daily basis threaten us with direct and indirect nuclear Armageddon (also on this page)

    Let them stew in their gulag and turn their attentions to the old man at the top, instead of offering Putin a route for his criminal kgb networks to infect Europe and a relief valve for those who might rise up against him

    Post edited by thatsdaft on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    It's simple: If Russia goes nuclear Ukraine tells all Russians within 300km of the border to go east. Then they send the plutonium drones to Kursk and St. Petersburg. Then they extend the exclusion zone to 500km. How long would the Russian economy last then?

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    That’s what I wrote about before, the nuclear rattling by Putin is just that

    The Ukrainians have shown to have enough homegrown capabilities that they could irradiate any large population center within 2000km with isotopes and dirty bombs where the panic alone would collapse those cities without the explosive power of a nuke

    And that’s before we get to what Europeans and hell probably China too would do if we wake up one morning to find our Putin either used a nuke on a town or his attacks caused a larger Chernobyl



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    Well let's go for the plutonium thing then. I'd love to see the Russians fleeing like lemmings.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,325 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This is a complete distortion. CERN simply decided last year to not renew the cooperation agreement with Russia and Belarus once its terms expired. There are still Russian scientists working at CERN, just not from Russian institutions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Nice nice, that be all of it before the expiration date

    https://thehill.com/newsletters/defense-national-security/4899941-us-set-to-announce-nearly-6b-in-ukraine-aid/

    Forbes says 8 not 6 billion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭RGARDINR




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    I just wish they would send all their Bradley vehicles to Ukraine that are sitting there waiting to be decommissioned. Just if any country has stuff lying around, just fix it and send it to Ukraine to use.



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