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Battery - to take advantage of 2am to 5am cheap rate electricity

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    It’s no different than connecting an off the shelf battery. The inverter is connected to the grid and the battery is connected to the inverter. Once the inverter and battery settings are set up, it’s pretty much plug and play. My videos cover that aspect too.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭CBD2


    Cheers, I've been binge watching your YT video tutorials which are very good. Almost ready to pull the trigger now. Thanks again



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭CBD2


    Well done, I'm starting down a similar path soon hopefully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭Newtown90


    Is it coming from the EU or China?

    Interested in hearing how it goes - I had messaged them only last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭conor_mc


    China. EU stock was considerably more expensive. 7-10 days to ship, 60-70 days to deliver, should be here early to mid December.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭CBD2


    Think I've hit a snag. Contacted four different electricians,one of which is a solar/battery installer, and none will do the job. Just to be clear I don't have solar already, so for people who do its a simple job just to connect diy battery to existing inverter/grid.I decided to check before buying anything. Looks like I'll have to get a cheap solar install to get me hooked up but not ready to do that yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    90 days is more realistic so be prepared for that.

    Just tell them to wire the battery fuse/disconnect to the inverter and then you just wire up the batteries yourself, very easy to do.

    You also do NOT need RECI approval to connect DC batteries to your system so for insurance purposes you're all good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭CBD2


    Yep, that's what I asked them and none would do it. Once they hear of DIY battery being added after they're heading for the hills.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 paddy236


    You can do the batteries afterwards yourself. Just have the battery case and fuse holder dimensions before the RECI starts and ensure space is left for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Don't mention DIY at all, say you're thinking of adding a Dyness or Pylontech or some other off the shelf battery down the line.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭CBD2


    Yes, will do that down the line when I get solar. Problem is, nobody just adds an inverter to the house without solar or battery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Does anyone have any recommendations on where to buy busbars for hooking up the likes of the Seplos/Gobel battery packs?

    Also what size, as I am getting conflicting info. I was thinking a 5mm x 25mm x (X length) pure copper bar would be enough for me needs, which is going to be 3 x 15kWh Seplos batteries.

    I see the likes of THIS 6mm x 25mm C101 is good for 400A, but then the online calculators give this a rating of 180A.

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,384 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Ive come across them calculators too and seem really conservative when compared to cables,

    Usually it comes down to the cross sectional area, mm². Double the mm² double the current.

    So a 6mm*25 is 150mm² - and they say it can only carry 180 amps.

    Standard cables for the solis is 25mm2 I think.

    Going on that calculation 25mm2 could only carry 30 amps.

    From experience, 10mm2 get a little warm at 60 amps, 25 is fine for 100. You could push up to 150-180 with 35 but it's pushing it, 50 would be much better for 200 amps.

    You only have to worry about the current that your putting into the batteries too, so solis at 100 amps, and possibly a charger at 60?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Yeah, I wonder if they are using a high FoS built into the algorithm. 5x25 copper would be more than enough as i thought.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Similar setup and I'm using 35mm2 from the batteries to the switch and then 140mm2 from both + and - to inverter 2x70mm2 for + and - which is overkill but the inverter requires two connections for each to reach 300a and the cables aren't getting hot.

    Was thinking about that calculator as well and how it underestimates the value, as I might split the batteries to bus bars so I can add a rectifier for extra pumping in winter.

    Also that 400a bus bar has 11 holes in it, surely if you remove all that copper then it should no longer carry the same?

    Post edited by SD_DRACULA on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    surely if you remove all that copper then it should no longer carry the same?

    Agreed on that. Unless they are plugged with another highly conductive metal, the conductivity must be lower. This would be true of even a single hole left unfilled and might account for a higher FoS, or lower efficiency in those calculators.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Where is best to buy the copper busbars? If I can buy local (Dublin) for a decent price, I will. Otherwise it looks like Ali-Express and a long wait….but then I will be waiting a good while for another set of cells and a Seplos kit, which are out of stock at NKON and Fogstar.

    For the busbars, i'm thinking of getting 500mm lengths of 5x25, so I can work with them in sections. When I need to add more length, I will drill a couple of holes in the ends of each length and bolt them to eachother with a good 30mm overlap.

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,384 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    What sort of current are you expecting, would cables be sufficient and use one of them busbars from mpe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 GarlicBed


    I've seen domestic bus bars been given different ratings depending on how you connect them.

    So if you connected your inverter at one end and the batteries at the other then the bar will see the whole current as apposed to connecting the inverter in the center and the batteries at the ends its only seeing half the current .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Wouldn't bother with bars between the packs, 35mm2/50mm2 cables and then merge them on something like this

    https://rfe.ie/product/equipotential-earth-bar-10mm-bolts/?attribute_pa_way=30&attribute_pa_disconnect-link=0

    But it won't be cheap, think they are around €125 for the 6 way iirc from asking for a price a while back, bit much for a 6x50mm copper bar and two legs but on the plus side they are rated 360a on the most conservative calculator site 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84 ✭✭KaseLieberKase


    About to take the plunge on a Yixiang DIY Case and 16x 280Ah REPT cells for about €1,450 after payment processing fees. Seems like a good deal, but hoping someone wiser can let me know if I'm making any glaring mistake with this order.

    For context I have a SAJ H1-4K-S2 hybrid inverter and 4.4kWp solar array to go with this.

    Case Link (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/YIXIANG-DIY-16S-48V-51-2V_1601258989869.html)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I thought about using cables, but busbar seems to be the done thing. Must be good reason for this. I'm going a bit larger than I think I need to give myself plenty of head-room for possible future expansion, or power increase.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    If I can pull 300a over 3x35mm2 cables without them getting hot then you don't need bus bars 😂

    But yes if you daisy chain multiple batteries between them with short cables it is not great, they will get out of sync, saw it on the old dynesses, all of mine now go to the switch with individual cables of the same length and stay balanced now



  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭oaklands


    Confirm it includes VAT, shipping & any Import Duty BEFORE ordering. Usually referred to as DDP (Delivered Duty Paid)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84 ✭✭KaseLieberKase


    Good shout, shipping is DDP and coming from warehouse in Poland so should be all good on that front. Only minor snag is delivery is not expected until November 15th. Reviews of the case seem good on YouTube and assembly seems beginner friendly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I have been rethinking this. The suggestion to go 35mm2 cables is what I would like to do. However, I'm concerned about getting 35mm2 cable into connectors for the inverter. I've ordered these 200A connectors from Ali. If they fit, I'll order the 35mm2 cable and a couple of bus bars from Amazon to connect everything together. I already have a set of the one in the image below.

    I'll have enough 25mm2 cable to connect each battery to the busbar joins and have the main busbar as a 35mm2 cable(s). Each battery will have a 250VDC breaker I can use to isolate them. Should I be adding a 150A in-line fuse between the inverter and battery packs?

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,384 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    The cables that came with the inverter will be fine, the inverter won't be able to pull more than the cables will allow.

    Of you ever get a recitifer or additional charging, it will go on the bus bar.

    As for fusing as long as each battery has its own MCB or fuse and the wires to the inverter has a MCB/fuse

    Reason I mention the inverter is that fuses protect the cables.

    Each battery wire is fused to say 150 amps.

    The inverter wires, have the potential of being able to have access to 3* 150.

    There would need to be a 150 on the inverter side too, incase there is a overload (or short) on the inverter cables. - again to stop the cables from melting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Great. I know what I'm doing now. I was thinking of going to 35mm2 cable for 2 reasons.

    1. It's not much difference in cost for a total of 8M for the busbar portion.
    2. I'll eventually be upgrading to an 8 or 12kW inverter and 35mm2 cable future proofs me a bit.

    That said, it won't be much cost changing out a few meters of cable if I get 25mm2 now. I'll still wait for the plugs to see if they fit the inverter. If they do and if they also take the 35mm2, I'll go with 35mm2 for the setup.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭SodiumCooled


    Maybe I missed it but I don’t see any thread specifically discussing the best plans to go on that would also take into account FIT? The switcher sites don’t make any attempt to include it from what I see.

    Since I am a new build I have no feel for what our usage will be but we will in theory be fairly heavy users - relatively large house, 11kW A2W heat pump, all cooking will be electric/indiction, heavy enough users of clothes dryer with kids etc etc.

    We have a 10kWp solar system installed and 10kWh battery to go in after 2nd fix but I’m reluctant to go for the plans that are very expensive most of the day with the EV night rate incase we go through the battery too fast in winter especially. So u think probably a day and night rate might be best with no super high peak. Yuno for example looks to be the cheapest but they pay the least for FIT.

    Maybe be not place to discuss but happy to be pointed to another thread or forum. Thanks.

    Post edited by SodiumCooled on


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,384 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Energypal takes fit into account. But only on previous use.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭curioustony


    Eco power optimiser app allows you to build a load profile based on historical or expected usage patterns. It will use PVGIS for solar data, and simulate a year. It will calculate and compare prices for whatever suppliers plans you have added. All you need is an Android device with Android > 9

    🌞4.55 kWp, azimuth 136°, slope 24°, 5kW, 🛢️10.9kWh, Roscommon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    I would assume you would be the same as me…. new build probably A1…I have an A1 house all electric house EV, HP, MHRV and 6.1 kWp solar. I consume aboout 18,000 kWh/year but import about 15,000 kWh due to the PV. I just uploaded my data into EnergyPal and came back with this. I am moving to the Bord Gais EV Smart as I put in 7000 kWh into the car and I can shift this load easy into the 2-5am slot and this will save me a fortune. The number below do not take this into account as I normally charge the car from 11pm (when my EI night rate kicks in) Even though the Board Gais isnt the cheapest shown here on EnergyPal, its the cheapest EV rate and I have taken this into account.

    I have also included the normal day/night comparisons as well.

    I dont have a battery but am planning hopefully maybe next year but if I am it will have to be 15 kWh at least (if not 30 kWh). Its almost criminal that I dont have a battery considering my usage..

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭SodiumCooled


    Thanks very much this is great information, I will put aside some time to properly go through and digest the figures.

    Yes we would be similar I think from a house perspective airtight, MVHR, HP, target of A1. We don’t have an EV or PHEV and unlikely to go that route in the near term so wouldn’t be contributing to our usage on that front.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Anyone here had to deal with warranty and nkon? Appear to have low capacity cell in the batch I bought in August. Freefalling in voltage when pack is barely 50% discharged. Fully top balanced pack but this cell getting worse each day and triggering low voltage cutoff. Contacted them today but just wondering how others fared with them.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,384 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Just so you have some more evidence in your back pocket, a screenshot showing them all at 3.4 even 3.5v, to show that's it's not imbalance.

    I don't remember who, but they get you to send the cell back before refund/replacement,

    You can buy a replacement and they will refund you when they get the cell back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Cheers, have already ordered a cell last week which should be dispatched on 24th this month.

    Good to know the process with them and hopefully shouldn't be issue. Will grab screenshot with all cell voltages when fully charged tonight and are all usually within 10-20mv when at top end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    That was me. The norm is they arrange collection of faulty cell(s) and when they receive, they will send replacements. In my case, I ordered a cell because I didn't want to wait longer than absolutely necessary. This meant I had to pay delivery. I was refunded the cell cost when NKON received the faulty one.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭munsterfan2


    Yes, I had one cell, sent them graph. They had me order a new cell and send other one back. Once cell sent back was received they paid me a refund. Completely painless. Shipped back using gls in the packing I received the new cell in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭irishchris


    I wish it was that easy. Several different tests and strong of emails and latest reply from them is:

    "Arranging a shipping back from Ireland to the Netherlands so far has never been successful as the shippers system does not accept Irish pickup addresses."

    I have already ordered a cell from them due into stock in two weeks but would have hoped for a better customer service than what I have got from them so far. Hoping they will come good though after reading others experience with them here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭munsterfan2


    I arranged / paid the shiiping from my end and was able to drop the package to a gls pickup point, https://gls-group.com/IE/en/parcel-shop-map/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭digiman


    Have the local installers here dropped their prices much in the last year? I’d like to add another 10KW to my existing 5KW Dyness BX51100 battery. I’m not really inclined to go the DIY route so don’t mind paying a bit more for someone to come out and do it for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭conor_mc


    I’ll have a 6mo Dyness BX51100 up for sale in Jan after my Gobelpower arrives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,522 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Hi

    Im in the early stages of "dreaming" of getting a battery for my house but with two kids in college and the general flaithiúlach lifestyle of my family 🤔 it might be another year or two before I can gather the funds for one…  

    That said, I am an ideal candidate for a battery in that I consume about 18,000 kWh a year, import about 15,000 kWh, 7000kWh of that is my EV and 4500 into the Heat Pump. I have a 6.1 kWp Solar PV system Im an all electric house. 

    My question is what would you guys recommend I do given the fact also I have a 16 kVA connection so I have the capacity to pound the kW into a battery at night.

    Would I replace my existing Solis 6 kW inverter and get a hybrid inverter or would I leave that alone and get an AC coupled battery with an additional AC inverter/charger .

    Given my usage I would/should get something like two of those 15kWh fogstar Seplos kits so 30 kWh of battery storage (or more possibly with 16 kVA connection..)

    What you you do in my situation. Thanks    

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Thankfully they got back today and due to postal prices and the fact they see now the cell is completely faulty they are going to ship an extra 280ah cell along with the one I ordered too instead of sending the faulty one back for refund. Be handy to have in case of issues at a later stage with any other cell.

    A bit iffy at the beginning but turned out to be really good customer service in the end. Hats off to Nkon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    You actually consume more than me. I’m at 15k units per year.

    I have 2 x 15kWh Seplos batteries and a third on the way from fogstar.

    Using cheap night rate, a single battery will easily be paid for in savings over the course of a year.

    The extra cost is the hybrid inverter, but you’ll get a couple hundred for your existing inverter. Replace with a Solis hybrid, or SunSynk, as you’ll be able to get help here for your setup.

    Stay Free



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