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Israel are going to start WWIII

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,784 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    not selectively, just highlighting the constant ripple effects of interference in countries where oil etc was involved.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,106 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Seems to be quite a few who are saying "attack Iran and you'll suffer the consequences ".

    Are they militarily a strong nation? I suspect people are over estimating their ability. I don't think you'll ever see Israeli soldiers actually in Iran in a land war, it'll all be from the air, and let's be honest Israel will have an unlimited supply of bombs to drop from the US, UK and the west. They have the tech and knowledge to win a war from those kind of attacks, based on what we have seen in the last few weeks, where they have taken out all the top men in Hezbollah without much problem.

    It reminds me of the Iraq war when we were told quite often that the US would make a massive mistake by invading and they'd be hammered by the elite Iraqi troops. But they walked all over them with next to no resistance.

    I suspect people are hyping up Irans capabilities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,777 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Constant interference even before oil was discovered. Vast history of wars and invasions pre the discovery of oil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    I'd be wary of believing every hit Israel says it executed. It seems every neonatal ward Israel destroyed in Gaza was a Hamas HQ, and every infant they murdered were Hamas masterminds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,777 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Iran strength is in numbers and it's sheer manufacturing capacity. They have a massive technical deficit though.

    As you say I can't see It being a land war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,304 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Thats a very partial reading of Iraq, the consequences of the invasion of Iraq has caused massive lingering effects, led directly to the expansion of ISIS. It also effectively brought down the Blair government. It was a huge disaster for the whole region and has cost the USA vast amounts of resources and money and credibility with almost no tangible benefit.

    Not inconsequential at all.

    Going after Iran is likely to have similar impacts on israel and the region. Pressure is growing on all the Israeli allies to pull back supports - and it is guaranteed to grow if people see Israel destabalizing the region.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,106 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    But even their enemies have admitted all their top leaders and commanders have been killed.

    So the Israelis have good intel to find these guys, or else they are getting info fed to them by informers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,106 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I'm not dismissing the invasion of Iraq as as non event. Of course it was huge on the world stage and did indeed cause massive problems we are still feeling to this day.

    What i was pointing out was the hyping up of the Iraqi military and how they would crush any invading force, when what happened in effect was that they capitulated or ran away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,784 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    thats history innit , funnily enough I was watching a documentary on the origins of the Vietnam war (before my time) but as per Hollywood it generally came across as America standing up to commies but seeing the build up as being the French trying to hold on to an empire post WW2 lol , in black and white watching it it come across as ridiculous where you could say the French were the "bad guys" and the American were dupes at best

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,383 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    It is very short term thinking to think of consequences as being only what can be immediately fired back in the short term.

    The US has almost 2m of its own citizens with officially recognised disabilities resulting from their time serving in Iraq/Afghanistan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    Plus Israel is getting the reputation for being a criminal bolthole.

    There was hope in the region of a two state solution until Bibi's zionists assassinated Rabin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,304 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Iran is not Iraq and the motivations and committment is entirely different. Iranian people genuinely despise the Israeli's and Americans in a viseral way.

    Iraq was a dictatorship with very little public support. Iran is not despite outward wishforfullment to the contrary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    Not all of them.

    It's like how the US kept saying that every wedding party they blow up from the air in Afghanistan was a training camp until they had to admit that their intel was manipulated by local sources.

    If Israel states an innocent was a Hamas mastermind they'll still be mourned as a martyr. Israel has made every Palestinian a combatant by treating them as a target.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,383 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    While you wouldn't hear it from commentators in the West today but Iran did put boots on the ground and was instrumental in the defeat of ISIS/ISIL. That isn't to give them a free pass on anything, just to point it out to the lads who appear to think it would be a great thing to bomb them back to the stone age as well. You'd be removing yet another (relatively) stable state from that region and adding another unstable one that might not be able to exert beneficial influence.

    And no, and anticipating the slow learners out there, I did not say that they exert only or mainly beneficial influence overall, but they did play a large role in defeating those lads!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,692 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The Yanks have been orchestrating slaughter in Iran for generations.

    If the hate is visceral anywhere there is usually reasons for that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,690 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The numbers of dead and wounded on both sides are irrelevant? That's very convenient. You should tell all the dead and maimed children that "one is either at war or they are not". Those blinkers must be expensive.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Bizarre that some people in this thread are so anti-Israel that they'll pull on all sorts of threads rather than just admit the well known fact that Iran is militarily inferior to Israel in long range war.

    It's OK to state impartial facts. They can't hurt you and they don't make you pro-Israel. Facts are just facts, they don't take sides.

    You don't launch 180 ballistic missiles at another country in anger after your proxy terrorist group gets crippled and expect no retaliation, and Iran knows this and is content to play the dangerous game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,777 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    America had its own reasons for being in SE Asia nothing to do with France.

    It's whole mindset is to defend itself and it's interests (economy) by projection of force.

    For example us navy was established to combat Barbary pirates, Barbary corsairs, Ottoman corsairs, on the Barbary coast. Protect its trade routes

    Curious Irish connection to Barbary Pirates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The consequences of the Iraq war is also increased distrust of politicians and a strong suspicion of the motivations for involvement in foreign wars. Four and a half thousand dead US service members based on a lie, on intel provided by a country now intent on involving America in a war with Iran.
    The US military is experiencing a huge recruitment crisis because most Americans are unwilling to serve and those that are, are unfit to do so due to obesity, mental illness or other conditions.
    This is one reason given for the need for large numbers of young, healthy migrants. Uncle Sam needs them.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭halkar


    When US landed in Iraq they already bought of the army and had support of Kurdish and Shia's who hated Saddam and few other nations around Iraq for logistic support. Iran is different, its a big country with thousands of years of history. Some may hate their leaders but attack on the country can and will unify the country. It will not be like Iraq or Afghanistan. Israel cannot do anything other than sending few drones or planes. US can not afford to do anything with Iran. It will bankrupt them. I don't think US public will support either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,927 ✭✭✭SeanW


    So Israel should have responded by a year of constant attacks by Hezbollah with … a sternly worded letter?

    Maybe the "dead and maimed children" you refer to should take up their complaints with Hamas and Hezbollah.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Delete



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,777 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm not sure what Iran "is". It has it's own internal bloodshed and history of human rights abuses. At the same time it's huge economy and producer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,690 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yeah that's exactly what I said. You're not even bothered or interested to find out how many people were killed by those attacks so what do you care about rationale? Irrelevant as you said.

    I suppose the destruction, death and injuries in Gaza was proportionate too? Or have you a target in mind there?

    The pro genocide supporters are looking increasingly foolish in their selective "arguments" I notice.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    It is odd that on another thread you'll have posters saying Iran is crucial to keeping Russia going, and then in this thread it's that Iran can't take on Israel, simultaneously weak and powerful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,777 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Both of those things can be completely true, they are not a contradiction.

    Iran probably supplies Russia with certain things important to its war in Ukraine.

    Iran is militarily inferior to Israel particularly in long range war.

    Where is the contradiction there? Can you point it out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,692 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You don't launch 180 ballistic missiles at another country in anger after your proxy terrorist group gets crippled and expect no retaliation, and Iran knows this and is content to play the dangerous game.

    Well you kind of do, and it underlines the rather silliness of the region.

    Iran were allowed a free shot in April in their telegraphed attack.

    This attack was inevitable because Iran had to do something to show support for Hezbollah. Israel were fully aware this would happen and expected it.

    It's basically all a cock measuring contest until it isn't.

    If Israel didn't have absolute Ghouls in charge of it at the moment, everyone would now pull back and a certain level of diplomacy would break out.

    But Bibi doesn't want that. It's mental to say, but Iran are the ones showing restraint at the moment.

    At the end of day though, no one will or can win and the innocents will just continue to be slaughtered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,383 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    It's the same way that the line is trotted out that Israel is facing a continuous existential risk, but then gloating that it is calling Iran/Yemen/Lebanon/etc's obviously weak bluff when it unilaterally attacks them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    Perhaps you missed my point about some posters think they're support "vital".

    Let us not flame.

    The point is Iran did have an impact on defeating the Saudi (US ally) backed ISIS. Warfare is evolving and despite Israel's current strength it does have recruitment issues where now they have to conscript orthodox jews which is actually causing rifts in Bibi's ranks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Seems to be quite a few who are saying "attack Iran and you'll suffer the consequences ". Are they militarily a strong nation?
    I suspect people are over estimating their ability.
    If anything it's the opposite. They have been preparing for war with "the Great Satan" since the end of the Iran-Iraq war, building up their industrial base and their military capability ever since.
    Do you remember a few years ago the case of involuntary US technology transfer to Iran, via Iran taking control of a US drone flying over their territory? Iran had the capacity to do that, took the drone apart, copied and then improved it - and now Iran builds its own drones.

    I agree that you're unlikely to see Israeli soldiers come home from Iran in body bags, Israel doesn't have the ability to fight a land war with Iran, or with any organised state for that matter - it's not 1967/1972 any more and other countries have learned from the past.
    As you say, any contact will be from the air, and Iran has just shown its teeth. I wonder how much more they have? It would be typical if they didn't demonstrate their full range of weapons and capabilities.

    Israel will have an unlimited supply of bombs to drop from the US, UK and the west. They have the tech and knowledge to win a war from those kind of attacks, based on what we have seen in the last few weeks, where they have taken out all the top men in Hezbollah without much problem.
    While Israel might have a good supply chain at the moment, it cannot be sure this will continue. If Iran were to destroy Israel's airfields and airports, those bombs will go nowhere as they won't get into the air, and in fact they may not even arrive in time if they have to be brought in by ship due to runways being plowed up..
    As for Israel fighting a war - the only experience they have is in fighting against militias like Hamas and Hezbollah, not against well-equipped armies.
    Regarding the top men in Hezbollah being taken out, I wonder whether any of it is smoke and mirrors to give Israel the impression that they have been more effective than they really are. In any case, Iran is a lot further away and intervening countries will not allow Israel to overfly. While Israel will likely ignore any prohibitions, you can be sure that if any aircraft can still get into the air they will be tracked from takeoff, and Iran will have fair warning.

    It reminds me of the Iraq war when we were told quite often that the US would make a massive mistake by invading and they'd be hammered by the elite Iraqi troops. But they walked all over them with next to no resistance.
    The elite Iraqi troops were also a bit of a joke, after a decade's sanctions by the US and its allies. Nevertheless, the invasion was a major mistake, as was the US invasion of Afghanistan. The US military didn't come very well out of either adventure, as resistance continued until they left with their tail between their legs. Although the MIC did very nicely out of it thank you very much.

    I suspect people are hyping up Irans capabilities.
    The Paper Dome® didn't seem too effective last night if the videos doing the rounds are anything to go by.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,522 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    That is wishful thinking. The Nakba didn't work for Israel and only made even more enemies. Israel needs to talk peace, not war if they want to survive and thrive in the region. I know it's neighbours are not great but war after war solves nothing. There can and will be no winners this way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    The blinkers may be a virtual reality headset. That poster may think it's all a game of Call of Duty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    Just on your last piece, I don't think the Afghanistan mandate was a mistake, but making it a war against the Taliban rather than just focusing on the Saudi funded training camps there was.

    Instead the US inattention made the Taliban stronger and more resilient.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,001 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Iran's attack actually achieved something on the economic front. Things are getting expensive for Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I think I read that Saddam had been led to believe that the US would support his invasion, when the reality is that they actually encouraged him to invade so they would have an excuse to destroy him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭mountain


    no one is going to jail him,

    He will live out a nice cushy retirement surrounded by bodyguards



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,304 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    That's sounds like a neat retrospective, wasn't the whole thing because Kuwait was sideways drilling into Iraq oil fields (think "I drink your milkshake" from There Will Be Blood).

    All he did was pivot the US military supplies from Iran towards the thief. In the post Soviet collapse the international consensus that was that if Saddam got away with redrawing international boundaries then others would try their luck.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Calling Iron Dome "paper dome" is childish stuff. Firstly, Iron Dome isn't an anti-ballistic missile defense, which is what was launched last night. So Iron Dome had nothing to do with it.

    Arrow and whatever other tech Israel has to combat ballistic missiles isn't a case of it either works 100% or its useless. As you can imagine it's far more difficult to defend against ballistic missiles compared to short range rockets and shells.

    Iron Dome was designed with Hamas and Hezbollah in mind and it is very effective overall. The other systems were designed to deal with ballistic missile strikes by the likes of Iran which obviously don't happen every other day.

    Hyping up Iran's military capabilities while severely downplaying Israels is very common on this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,522 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Being surrounded by bodyguards is not ''cushy'' at all. It shows fear and fear is an emotion nobody wants or needs. He does deserve it though. Plus he'll hear the screams of all those little babies be blew apart every time he closes his eyes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Indeed. And those bodyguards could be in the Hague, I think. He'll probably share a premises with Radovan Karadzic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,692 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    They said the same thing about the guy Bibi replaced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭mountain


    much as I’d like him to suffer the consequences of what he has done, the Americans won’t let it happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,777 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Iran is in the stone age when it comes to military technology.

    Iron dome isn't used for intercepting ballistic missiles.

    What Iran has is numbers, it can swamp a defence. What they've done in this case is hugely escalated the conflict. Usually ends well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    There's no doubt that Israel's actions are genocidal, but the question is how far will Bibi take before Israel's actions actually start impacting the US's international standing?

    As is the global south's indifference to the Russian invasion demonstrates that world unity isn't the western narrative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    No, Paper Dome® is a generic term for their anti-missile systems, now that they are trying to distance themselves from their original term.

    Maybe you can find photos of the various airfields as well as the Mossad headquarters that was attacked that show them unscathed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,690 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Did you just edit your post to include this; "Maybe the "dead and maimed children" you refer to should take up their complaints with Hamas and Hezbollah."? Wow. Proud?

    I refer to? Do you have any knowledge of these people?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Yeah I remember the same nonsense rhetoric before he got in last time. Then NK was the big bad wolf and nothing happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭yagan


    I think it's important to remember that for the Zionist they believe they are the chosen people, so the fate of the unchosen is irrelevant.

    In the original Hebrew the commandment is "thou shalt not murder", which changed to "kill" in the christian rework.

    In the Zionist mind the killing of thousands of Palestinians is not a sin.



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