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€9 million to be spent on “electronic pouches for schools”

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭NiceFella


    It's not 50/50 in most schools. Most enforce the rules (because it's their job). Plus if kids are constantly looking at their phones they aren't learning and it reflects in their grades which reflects poorly on the teacher. You'll have some teachers and kids who won't bother but it'll be a minority imo and ultimately it will be on themselves. Most people will follow the rules, it's why we have an organized society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    To be honest I think he's more going on here than just him not having a phone to fit it.

    How was he at primary school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Just look at the amount of adults using their phones at traffic lights.

    I don't think you really answered my question.

    Was there smart phones when you were at school?

    I ask this because you come across as somebody who hasn't experienced phones in the class room.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭Havenowt


    They can lock up their smartphones, but they can still send and receives message with their smart watches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    These could go in the pouches with the phones also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    They've fixed a problem that doesn't exist.

    Majority of students aren't using social media etc on their phones in class.

    Those who are using their phones have probably been asked to use Quizlet, Kahoot, Mentimeter, Padlet, Teams etc, by their teacher, to help with their learning.

    Screentime issue won't be fixed as the students can still spend the rest of their day on their phone, which is where the majority of their screentime comes from anyway.

    Cyberbullying hasn't been addressed either as they can have their phones unsupervised on the bus as the driver is obviously not watching them while driving the bus.

    I would have much preferred to see an investment in a tablet for each student (with a contribution from the student) to allow teachers continue with digital learning platforms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    Ok now you are completely out of touch with what is happening in schools if you believe they're only using their phones for educational purposes.

    Of course they're using their phones for social media. Even if they are using them for Mentimeter they'll check Snapchat and Instagram at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    I'm a teacher, I get my students to use their phone in many classes. I monitor and walk the room while they engage with this work. It works incredibly well and they're mature enough to do what they should be doing. They all agree that improper use of the phone will result in confiscation, I've never had to resort to this.

    I couldn't be more in touch. Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,089 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Sensible talk.

    The moral panic about this issue reminds of the moral panic about vaping. Some Irish people have too much time on their hands.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    It takes half a second to change from one app to another. It seems everyone of your students is the best, most dedicated student in the world because I guarantee you that they aren't just using Mentimeter.

    I wish I had teachers as naïve as you when I was in school, would have been much more fun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    I know how long it takes to switch from one app to another. I can also spot when a student tries to use multi-window to switch between apps.

    You might struggle with this but they don't do it and are happy with the ways I've provided them to interact with content.

    Are you in the classroom yourself? If not, tell me your profession and I'll tell you how naive you are at work and how you should do your job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,089 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    What does it matter?

    There's always a percentage that won't listen or don't care. Nothing to do with phones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    It's good to hear a teachers perspective on this. Out of curiosity if you tell a student 3 or 4 times to get off Snapchat for example what's the next step regarding punishment if they simply ignore warnings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    So you are actively monitoring every student in the class on their phones at the exact same time? There is no possible way that you can view every students phone to be 100% sure that they never are using other apps.

    Course they're happy they can use their phones in class when you allow them for "educational" purposes.

    I am not, my mother and one of my best mates are though so have endless amounts of anecdotes from them.

    I work in finance and technically we're not meant to be using the internet unless it's work related. We're all adults and guess what, we're all on reading sports articles, looking up holidays, paying bills, general dossing about from time to time. Management aren't naive to think that it doesn't happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    That's what I'm trying to say, if they have the options to use their phones they will and not for purely educational purposes.

    The only way to try and ensure that the majority can't and don't is to find a solution to stop them gaining access to them, be it electronic pouches or another method that the school use their budget for.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Raichų


    just coming in the market? They’ve been around since 1994 with IBM being the first touch screen phone. “Smartphones” are not new technology. Even iPhones have been around almost 20 years now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    Coming in the market for the average teenager, you know what I meant. Do you think teenagers in the 90's we're bringing their IBM touch screens phones to school? Majority didn't have brand new iPhones when they first came to the market.

    What a nonsensically pedantic point to pick up on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭NiceFella


    Motorists using phones is irrelevant to this discussion. I don't know what your talking about there.

    Yes, I was in school when smart phones were in and saw many people getting bullied using them. Every teacher with 1 exception I had while in class itself made sure students were off their phones. Outside of class was the problem. I went to a public school were the conversion rate to third level was low, so naturally many students had issues keeping off phones as they weren't academic.

    The pouches will make policing easier for teachers and the majority of students will comply apart from a few lost causes (which is their own fault). Lock phones up for the day, be present, learn and socialize with friends that are with you. Instead of allowing them stick their faces in a phone every spare minute they have. It's not good for them and the pouches help keep everyone honest. It's fairly straightforward really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Maybe your mother isn't a very effective teacher and it sounds like you're a bit of a dosser at work, Gary :)

    Anyway, this is going nowhere fast. Take or leave what I've said. It's from first-hand experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Ok, thanks for answering the question.

    I just went to a standard Irish secondary school in a county town.

    Good to hear about your life experience. I

    I think we've both different experiences and neither of us are going to change our minds.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,450 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Everyone is missing the main point of this.


    Nobody’s missing the point of it.

    Certainly a principal I know of says it was the BEST announcement in the budget for him.

    That’s exactly the point of it - a few votes for no effort whatsoever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭NiceFella


    That's fair enough, I just don't see what your argument is against them? Even if some teachers don't care as you say, some obviously do, and I think if it helps them do their jobs then why not? Like what's the problem?

    I also doubt teachers don't care about phone use in class as much as you say. At the end of the day, if the student isn't learning it will show that the teacher isn't doing their job by their grades. It's fairly simple in reality



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,222 ✭✭✭circadian


    I think it's pertinent to the discussion. We're seeing unsafe behaviours as a result of phone/social media/app addiction. Helping people form a healthy relationship with this stuff at a young age would go a long way in tackling a wider societal problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Honestly couldn't tell you. It's never happened. If I ask a student to do something they do it. Wud never meet someone that defiant.

    The odd student tries to use multi-window maybe if a notification appears but that's also rare.

    In class, the students recognize that the digital platforms I've provided add greatly to their learning and facilitate group work etc so they don't act out on it.

    Personally, I think education is about developing maturity and responsibility. Therefore, I think outright bans on phones is counterintuitive to what education should be. Students need to learn to live with their phone responsibly as they're a part of modern life now.

    If anything, school time is one of the few times they put their phones to good use. Many don't know the difference between search and address bars when we first work on phones. They don't know how to research, use online dictionaries, read PDFs etc. They learn many skills through this work and the notion they're all on Snapchat is wide of the mark from my experience.

    If your proposed incident did happen, our school policy clearly states a mobile will be confiscated if used for something not permitted by the teacher.

    Hope that answers your question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    It's not that I'm against them. I don't think i said I was. I just don't think they'll have much of an effect.

    I think they should be doing more regarding them getting off social media in the first place.

    I'll try and explain it as best again.(Sorry if I'm repeating myself.)

    At the moment most schools loads of rules about phones.

    If caught on phones they'll be confiscated, fined, detetion, etc.

    Yet some students contune to use phones in school.

    Those students in my opinion will just throw an old phone in the pouch and work away.

    When you hear some people talk about this in the media you'd swear schools had no policies on phones and it was a free for all until these pouches.

    I think I just had older teachers. If you sat down scrope a pass they didn't care. You could always drop down to ordinary level or foundation level. They still have their good students who wanted to succeed and others who went off and got grinds. Teachers will also have dozy fellas like me and those who didn't care.

    A little story when I did Leaving Cert one fella took pictures of his books and essays and used them in his leaving cert and didn't get caught.

    Post edited by freshpopcorn on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,034 ✭✭✭griffin100


    My kids got these pouches at the start of this year for the first time. We had to pay €25 for each of them. They’re thick padded things with a strong lock. The kids after a bit of whining are actually delighted with them. Cutting out screen time means they have to engage with each other more fully and the pressure to be ‘always on’ that social media brings is gone. At the end of the day the magnets that open them are made available for students to use. Yes they can be forced open, but it’s bloody hard to do that. I have to say, I’m in favour, anything that lessens access to screen time and increases social interaction is a good thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Raichų


    did teenagers have phones including smartphones while I was in school? Yes they did.

    My brother is a good few years younger than me and he had a smartphone, among his peers, from about 13– however still it was not a major issue in school. That’s less than a decade ago. He only finished college in 2022.

    It’s this constant deflection that makes me worry more than anything else. Instead of addressing the obvious issue it’s just “ah but what about when you were a teenager”

    “Ah it was different then”

    “Sure you wouldn’t know what it’s like”

    I know more than you think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 482 ✭✭StormForce13


    Dis you happen to notice, as you painstakingly crawled through the post-budget analysis in the Irish tabloids, that THE ONE TRUE GUBBERMENT (the ones who really "won" the last election, according to Mary-Lou McTrump), were offering even bigger bribes to the voters in Pearse "I nearly qualified as an engineer" Doherty's laughable "alternative budget"?

    As you perceptively observed: "Gas".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    It sounds like we were in school at a very similar time, I had my first smartphone in TY and we used phones, smart or not in school when we thought we could get away with it. If we got caught it was tough luck and it was gone until your parent went in and collected it.

    There are far broader issues about phone usage in society, amongst both adults (while driving) and children, but it's not the school's responsibility to try and solve this societal problem. Their issue is kids having access to the phone, if it's there they'll try and use them, if they can't access them they can't use them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Raichų


    I absolutely agree that it’s not the schools problem which is precisely why I am completely opposed to this €9m spending of public money!

    I’m not opposed to the idea or restrictions on phones in school I’m opposed to the government funding the matter at such a high cost. I’d rather that money was used for any of the following:

    • SNA’s
    • Classroom materials
    • Heating and Cooling
    • Hot meals
    • ASD units and similar
    • Actually anything other than this

    If you ask me if a parent buys their child a phone then the parent becomes responsible for ensuring it’s used appropriately. That includes buying lockable pouches if the school deems it necessary! I think it’s a very cute waste of money because if you oppose it you must want kids to be brain dead phone addicts, but no, I just want the parents responsible to foot the bill, use that €9m on something else.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    As it's been pointed out it's roughly 10k per school and while your list is valid and all these services are required, unfortunately an extra 10k doesn't put much of a dint in a lot of them.

    It shouldn't be solely on the parents either though as teenagers rebel, or at least the majority do to some degree or another. It's part of growing up, not doing everything you're told, making mistakes and learning from them.

    Some schools have implemented them as one poster mentioned above and I wouldn't be opposed to this if that's their solution but there are some people really struggling and any added expense causes stress and issues, if this is taken away and paid for by the state it's not the end of the world. €10k per school is a drop in the ocean.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Sorry mate this is not the US where they bring guns to school,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Not just a USA problem. Have you read my other posts? Its in other developed countries also. Links were attached.

    Im not sure what relevance guns are to this conversation.

    Post edited by Andrewf20 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,443 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    theyd hardly hand in another phone, and continue using their actually phone!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    delete



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    It sounds like you are on top of this which is great but you are 1 individual. There seems to be a concern other teachers are not as effective with this for whatever reason.

    The fact that the USA are seeing improvements with this policy suggests its at least worth trying here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Raichų


    ah come on €10k for a school won’t sort out classroom supplies or heating oil/gas? I have to say I’d entirely disagree!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Agree what your saying about bullying in schools, but a lot of the time the teachers and principals know who’s at it and don’t want to intervene due to parents, and a lot of people would be shocked at the students that are at it a lot of time it’s kids from the yummy mummy brigade and get away with it and not the housing estate kids as perceived by a lot of people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    It will sort it out for any heating for a small amount of time but it's like the electricity credits, it doesn't address the actual issue at hand, it's a just a sticking plaster on a massive wound.

    This is an attempt to deal with an issue that teachers and principals have been complaining about for years. The pouches may not be the solution but if they can use the funds to come up an effective solution it could solve the actual problem and not just put a plaster on it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Agree with you in my daughters secondary school Vaping is the biggest issue in the toilets and corridors etc, even first years are at it, the school is struggling with this problem as teachers don’t want to get involved and give up their lunch times to try police this ( they entitled to lunch break). The second biggest issue is the shortage of teachers and class monitoring if the teacher is out, the money would be better spent having a teacher in every class every day. My daughters French teacher has gone on maternity leave 3 weeks ago and no replacement for a leaving cert class. Nora would be better off getting students a proper education and not worrying about phones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭NiceFella


    Yeah I agree with what you are saying to an extent. There will of course be students who won't comply and will find ways to evade it. But I really couldn't care less about them, because ultimately it's their choice.

    I just think most students will comply with it because they actually do want to learn. My contention though is even good students are addicted to phones and in school they are an unnecessary distraction either in class or between classes. By locking them away for the day it forces them to be social and present with other students rather than neurotically checking their phones to look at nonsense between classes. If the majority buys in you have an environment were people are actively engaged with one another. If we leave it up to kids they'll always always take the easy way out. You have to put in place measures to train good habits. I personally think the pouches will help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭NiceFella


    I agree, but it's a wider discussion that isn't pertaining to a point I was making. I actually believe the pouches are a great idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Ya, I think working on them from first years might work out in the future. Don't know about the older years tbh.

    Will these pouches be needed in work place in the future if they can't manage without them?😄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭NiceFella


    No that won't open them. They've been tested on more powerful magnets than that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    You've me Googling how to unlock them now!

    I've no idea why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭noplacehere


    This is a sticking plaster high profile headline deliberately to distract everyone from the horrendous headlines related to her about kids with no school places, prefabs, lack of capitation grant increases etc. Add in the battles schools are facing re vapes etc-why phones only? Because someone will get the contract and get money out of it and she gets her headline

    There are far far bigger issues this money could have been used for in education



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Genuine question ? how long is it going to take for kids to get to wherever the storage area is in the school, store the phones and get to class ?

    The secondary I went to has now 730 pupils I’m reading….

    It’s going to be seriously impractical for a lot of facilities like my old school to have a room big enough in terms of accommodation of hundreds of kids trying to get in there store, lock phones and get to class all in about 10 / 15 minutes…..

    Bizarre antics from a really really desperately poor politician who is seriously operating at a level way way beyond her abilities, that’s the diplomatic way of putting it.

    Simply ban using mobiles on school property. If a kid is seen with one in school. One day suspension. Second offence. three days, third offence, a week, fourth, just expel, they ain’t listening to you.

    Parents will be pissed off and the onus will be put back on parents to actually ‘parent’, discipline the kids and the kids to follow the rules.

    Kids don’t need them. If a kid lives far away and gets a lift they won’t need to coordinate with a parent as the school timetable is identical every week and if it will change it’s not at short notice.

    This pouch craic is a pretty weak compromise by a weak and awfully incompetent minister….

    In this situation it doesn’t warrant compromise, it warrants leadership, rigid unambiguous decisions and the message..” no phone use, here are the deterrents, kids / parents, up to you now “…

    But no, instead it’s up to the general taxpayers shelling out 9 million initially….but that will be way way more over time as pouches need replacing, more added etc.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Would rather see the Dept invest in about 30k tablets for students with the €9m, or they could just get one for each 2nd level student as we've the money.

    The issue of heavy school bags wud be sorted, it's more environmentally friendly as we wouldn't have to print books, and it helps develop IT skills as the Dept themselves expect more and more LC projects to be submitted digitally and JC CBAs can often be submitted in powerpoint format.

    Each local school (or ETB) IT admin wud set the tablets to a school account so students wud not be able to add their social apps- distraction issue solved and digital learning could still continue.

    Norma sat on this idea for the whole summer and announced it 2 days before schools returned which is shocking communication from the minister.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,225 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    You lock the pouch in the morning and from my understanding get it unlocked on the way out. Kind of a clock in and out system. You carry it with you.

    All those things you've mentioned have been tried and aren't working. Also, have you any idea how hard it is to expel a student?



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