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Has President Higgins overstepped the mark?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    We don't differ on much. I agree that there is no easy way to resolve this conflict but the Taoiseach and Tánaiste should not abase themselves by conniving in his lies and deflections. They should have nipped his misbehaviour in the bud e.g. his letter the Raul Castro should have been the last that did not go through the Taoiseach's Department and our Embassies.

    They should have stood up for the Constitutional order and said e.g. "I didn't see the President's letter before it was published by the Cuban Embassy. It does not represent Irish policy towards Cuba. The Government have now advised the President in accordance with Article 13 of the Constitution that all his future correspondence with foreign leaders should be approved by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and transmitted via our Embassy."

    If Michael D. defied that edict e.g. sent that letter to the Iranians, he would be on very thin ice constitutionally and politically. I never met anyone serious who thinks the President should direct Irish foreign policy but many of his supporters seem to think he should be unaccountable and above all restraints.

    But now, Michael D. has a trump card. He has less than a year to go and I don't think he has a dog in the fight at the next election. The Taoiseach and Tánaiste have decided to take their beatings with the aim of getting someone biddable back in the Aras next year. The problem is that no candidate next year will admit to wanting a more restricted role i.e. in line with the constitution.

    Impeachment is the formal process for dealing with a President who is guilty of "stated misbehaviour" (which could include acting outside the Constitution) but that is a non-runner for many reasons (or one simple reason - our politicians!) The Government could put the squeeze on the President in various other ways e.g. block all the President's foreign travel but it is too late with Michael D.

    I admit that there are grey areas here but the President has definitely overstepped any and every mark (to answer the question in this thread). Sooner or later there will be a blow-up between the Government and the Áras.

    Paddy Hillery cleaned up after O'Dalaigh v. Donegan by taking a vow of silence which was excessively restrictive. Remember when Haughey blocked Mary Robinson from speaking on the BBC Dimbleby Lectures? That was a pyrrhic victory for the Taoiseach and he backed off afterwards. Or her handshake with Gerry Adams? Robinson was right to assert herself against Haughey's strictures but, as a lawyer, she also respected the Constitutional limits and worked at building good relations with four Taoisigh. Pity Michael D. hasn't more respect for the law.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/robinson-says-her-most-difficult-encounters-as-president-were-with-charles-haughey-1.229570



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


     Michael D. has a trump card. He has less than a year to go and I don't think he has a dog in the fight at the next election. The Taoiseach and Tánaiste have decided to take their beatings with the aim of getting someone biddable back in the Aras next year. The problem is that no candidate next year will admit to wanting a more restricted role i.e. in line with the constitution.

    Unless Martin himself? Could see him running on a 'back to presidential basics' ticket, take Paddy Hillery as his loedstar…

     President has definitely overstepped any and every mark (to answer the question in this thread). Sooner or later there will be a blow-up between the Government and the Áras.

    Michael D is canny enough, or thinks he is, to avoid pushing things to crisis point. For the rest of his term he will continue to go right up to the line without (intentionally) stepping over it. And then in his bestselling memoir he can claim as his legacy extending the boundaries of the office…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    His letter to the Sinosa cartel will be Ableeding1!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,760 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    But there is no "Israel angle". Michael D just made that up to distract people.

    Israel didn't do anything regarding his letter that he didn't want us to know about.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    You had nothing in your first post and even less now.
    Arrogance is no substitute for substantive arguments



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Yes, the Tánaiste would fancy the Aras as a reward for his Government Service (by far the longest of anyone alive except Bertie😊)

    He flew that kite a few weeks ago but it disappeared without trace. He should remember Brian Lenihan Sr. No Fianna Fáil politician has been elected to the Aras in 50 years!!!! Bertie showed his cuteness shafting Albert in favour of Mary McAleese. I used to think Bertie feared Albert would lose but now I see he was afraid Albert would win!

    Micheál might get over 20% on a good day and top the poll on the first count but, like Brian Lenihan, he’ll discover that over 50% of preferences will go to anyone but FF.

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭StormForce13


    Looking on the positive side, I have no doubt that a committed Gaelgeoir like Stumpy Dee will write his bestselling memoirs only in our native tongue.

    A true patriot like him wouldn't be interested in making (more) money, he'd be far more interested in being remembered in Irish History as the heroic Minister for Miscellaneous Gobshitery who fearlessly abolished Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act so we could all hear what Gerry Adams really sounds like on the RTE News.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Michael D is as canny as they come. That faux outrage has been perfected over a lifetime on the Left. He has well and truly overstepped the constitutional mark but he has correctly judged that young Simon, for all his bluster, is spineless. Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.


    But the seeds of a crisis have been sown. Some day, a Taoiseach will guts will insist on the constitutional balance and a future President will try to retain the (now established) order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Mary McAleese was an excellent President.

    Everyone felt proud of her because she stayed above the political fray and sought to unify, not divide.

    She and her husband were outstanding on the peace process which required tremendous instincts in a girl from Ardoyne. Culminating in the visit of Queen Elizabeth.

    Like Mary Robinson she had a lawyer’s respect for the Constitution. As we see from her subsequent battles with the Catholic Hierarchy, she never lacked conviction, she just understood the Office to which the Irish people had elected her and she didn’t attempt to self-aggrandise (the ultimate fault in our current President)

    Where will we find someone of that calibre now? Will we have a repeat for 2011 - false prophets like Norris and Gallagher fall away and the prize goes to the last candidate standing?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    You invited me to re-read this post as if it would answer my constitutional arguments. As I said the first time, you’ve got nothing but the effrontery to claim I was waffling.

    What amazed me on a second reading is your final sentence. You think I’m a Blueshirt🤪

    If you can think that after reading my post lambasting Simon Harris, I have been wasting your time and mine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Lot of anger here lately..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    No. And mercifully none of the faux outrage we get from the Áras.

    Plenty of strong criticism plus sharp rebuttals for Cludeo's BS, but mixed with some praise for former Presidents. But that may not be your cup of poison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The Aras should be worried by these poll results (which the Sindo buried at the bottom of their long report).

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/poll-nation-wants-a-general-election-now-despite-government-vow-to-go-full-term-to-next-year/a1808610656.html

    People are evenly split on the first question although it is skewed in favour of the President. The key issue is not whether the President should write to his Iranian counterpart but whether he should have written in such fawning, uncritical terms.

    Let's have a poll on this question - "Was the President's right not to mention human rights in his letter congratulating the President of Iran?".

    The results on the second question is even more worrying for the Aras. The narrowest majority (51%) of respondents supported his right to participate in current political debates. Again, the question is skewed in his favour.

    How about a poll asking the fundamental, constitutional issue - "Should the President criticise Government policy in public?". Come to think of it, we will have a nationwide poll next year where this should be the central question (but we will pretend its about anything and everything else)

    Respondents were almost evenly split on whether Michael D Higgins should have written a letter congratulating Iran’s new president earlier this year, with 39pc believing he was right and 40pc believing he was wrong to do so.

    A growing number of people believe it is wrong for the President to participate in current political debates, with 41pc of that view, up from 28pc in August’s poll. A slim majority (51pc), however, supported Mr Higgins’s right to speak out, with 8pc having no opinion.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/poll-nation-wants-a-general-election-now-despite-government-vow-to-go-full-term-to-next-year/a1808610656.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Not a matter of should or shouldn't. The convention is the President doesn't comment on politics.

    Just one person's opinion anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Yes, Higgins has overstepped the mark, and not for the first time either …



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Nor the last!

    He was at it again this weekend, attacking the Israelis who responded in kind. The Taoiseach refuses to rein him in. Our troops in UNIFIL are sitting ducks and their Supreme Commander is poking the Israeli bear at every opportunity (with ne’er a harsh word for Hezbollah who murdered Seán Rooney, only sucking up to their sponsors in Tehran!)

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/10/06/safety-of-irish-troops-being-monitored-as-israel-criticises-president-higginss-comments/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭taratee


    Said it before and I'll say it again, he needs to be reigned in. Was wondering why he was so quiet last week, so I did a bit of googling and found the below. Can we send him over to visit Charles and Camilla for a few weeks to keep him quiet?

    https://president.ie/en/media-library/news-releases/a-state-visit-by-the-president-of-the-socialist-republic-of-vietnam-announced-by-aras-an-uachtarain

    Am Yisrael Chai



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    he needs to be reigned in.

    Can we send him over to visit Charles and Camilla for a few weeks to keep him quiet?

    well that would be reigned on rather than in, no?😝



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,069 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    In a statement, just before the first anniversary of the Hamas attacks on Israel, Mr Higgins said it was “outrageous that the Israel Defense Forces have threatened this peacekeeping force and sought to have them evacuate the villages they are defending”.

    However, Andrea Tenenti, Unifil’s spokesman, on Monday said while the IDF had told the UN to withdraw their personnel from the posts close to the blue line, no threats had been made by the Israelis.


    “At the moment, they have asked us to move from certain positions,” he told RTÉ's Morning Ireland. “We have not received threats. And, again, also reminding them of their obligation to protect our bases and installations but, so far, we have not received threats.

    Higgins is either very careless with language or just plain making stuff up now.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/10/07/we-have-not-received-threats-unifil-spokesman-responds-to-claim-made-by-president-higgins-on-irish-troops-in-lebanon/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    The little lad will bring a lot of unnecessary focus on our country if he is not reined in, and fast.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    the IDF had told the UN to withdraw their personnel from the posts close to the blue line

    That's a clear threat. The IDF were not asking.

    Parking up beside the Polish and Irish is also threatening their safety and making them shields.

    Mickey talks a load of bollíx at the best of times, but he spot on this one.

    It is only a matter of time before a UN soldier is injured or killed.

    The top of the UN unfortunately lack anything resembling a back bone or a conscience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Sounds like an advisory rather than a threat. They knew there was going to be trouble in the area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,413 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Huh?

    They are mandated to be there, I know Israel like a bit of the ould land grabbing. But it isn't their land or country.

    It was a clear threat.

    How many resolutions would you like to be furnished with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,471 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    They're at war in fairness. Diplomatic niceties tend to go out the window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So Israel get to threaten the UN forces there who are mandated to protect the civilian population and the border without anyone calling them out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Some mandate! Makes a mockery of UN peacekeeping and turns our troops into hostages. Hezbollah don't need to threaten UNIFIL. They just murdered an Irish soldier and that was enough to stop UNIFIL interfering with the rocket launchers which began raining missiles down on Israeli civilians as soon as their buddies in Hamas went on their murderous rampage one year ago (which the President never condemned, even when he met families of their hostages!).

    In any case, this thread is not about Lebanon/Israel, this is about the President's constitutional role and the government's failure to assert its proper role. Once again, he has over-stepped the mark by getting into the most controversial and sensitive foreign policy area.

    Take down your copy of Bunreacht na hÉireann. Read closely Article 13.9

    The powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution shall be exercisable and performable by him only on the advice of the Government, save where it is provided by this Constitution that he shall act in his absolute discretion or after consultation with or in relation to the Council of State, or on the advice or nomination of, or on receipt of any other communication from, any other person or body.

    Article 28.4.1 makes clear that foreign policy is a matter for the Government.

    The executive power of the State in or in connection with its external relations shall in accordance with Article 28 of this Constitution be exercised by or on the authority of the Government.

    Therefore, the President can only act "on the advice of the Government" in dealing with foreign policy but he has staked out a role for himself in this field which is creating confusion about Ireland's foreign policy.

    Why are the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste yielding to this power-grab?

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,700 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Huh? It’s just a picture of a tank. Fake news….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭taratee


    There is no threat. Stop making things up. Andrea Tenenti, Unifil’s spokesman, has said that they have not been threatened. The IDF has asked them to move for their own safety. Hezbollah has killed Irish soldiers in the past, fyi.

    Am Yisrael Chai



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭taratee


    That's a picture of a tank. UNIFIL have said there is no threat. I'll take their word for it.

    Am Yisrael Chai



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    It’s a sad day when you can’t trust an out of context photo on the internet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Those UN forces are meant to protect both populations

    Seeing how Israelis had to leave settlements all along their own border due to constant attacks from north over these UN forces

    Someone failed to do their job



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Higgins is just a pompous little bollöcks.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,250 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    i'm delighted our president is calling out the israely industrial rape and murder machine.
    if israel want to land grab and slaughter left right and centre they have no complaint when they get called out.
    president higgens has been a great president for our country over all as much as i didn't vote for him personally.
    i hope he continues to speak the truth about israel and continues to call them out.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Grey123


    He is more likely to put Irish lives in danger but going off on solo runs on foreign policy rather than leaving the government and Department of Defence manage the situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,250 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    he isn't.

    the only ones putting lives in danger are the IDF.

    they have murdered our soldiers before even though there were no comments made by anyone in authority in ireland.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,250 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭2Greyfoxes


    I think the UK will beat us to the mark on becoming the 51st state.

    Clever word play may win debates, but it doesn't make it true.

    Understanding and explaining things, is not the same as justifying them, if in doubt… please re-read this statement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Yeah, "sucking up to the Ayatollahs in defiance of our Constitution" diplomacy

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,250 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    it was nothing in defiance of our constitution, it was in keeping with our constitution.

    and we weren't sucking up to them.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    In keeping with our constitution? Read my post #973

    Not sucking up? Just read his sycophantic drivel.

    Not so much as a hint about the terrible crimes of the Ayatollahs. Not even a suggestion they might go easy when lashing those women! Or that they might not string up the gays. And what a pity their minions in Hezbollah murdered that young private from Donegal. No, our President only wants to praise Iran's culture and its "crucial role" in promoting peace in the region! No wonder the Iranians put it on their Embassy website.

    Has any Irish leader ever written a more embarrassing letter to a foreigner? Normal diplomacy? What a lie!!

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Condolences from the people of Ireland on the death of the former muppet.

    Oh, and the embassy for next year. I wonder who will volunteer to work there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Caquas


    No muppet was he.

    He oversaw the mass executions of 10,000 left-wing opponents of the Ayatollah.

    But repeated condolences from our President for his "tragic" death. What game is our President playing? Nothing that our Constitution allows in any case.

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/iran-president-raisis-death-must-not-deny-victims-of-his-grim-human-rights-legacy-their-right-to-accountability/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Considering what happened today you'd have to think Higgins was on the money in calling out the IDF before anything serious happened to Irish troops. It's a pity he wasn't listened to by more before other UNIFIL bases were shot up



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