Congratulations to our Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee!!

whippet · 07-12-2020 1:28pm

Invidious wrote: »

If she can't take maternity leave, why is her spokesperson stating that she will be going on maternity leave?

she is obviously making special arrangements to take leave of some description for the maternity period - but the fact remains that she has no automatic right to maternity leave like the rest of the working women in ireland.

It shows up a major anomaly in the law - which her pregnancy will hopefully expiate a resolution to it.

Invidious · 07-12-2020 1:32pm

whippet wrote: »

she is obviously making special arrangements to take leave of some description for the maternity period - but the fact remains that she has no automatic right to maternity leave like the rest of the working women in ireland.

And yet she's taking maternity leave regardless, which makes all your hand-waving seem a little bit pointless.

whippet · 07-12-2020 1:41pm

Invidious wrote: »

And yet she's taking maternity leave regardless, which makes all your hand-waving seem a little bit pointless.

No ... the fact still remains that there is no provision in law for maternity leave which in office

Invidious · 07-12-2020 1:45pm

whippet wrote: »

No ... the fact still remains that there is no provision in law for maternity leave which in office

And the fact also remains that the woman in question will be taking maternity leave regardless, as confirmed by her spokesperson. So there's no huge issue here to get worked up about.

whippet · 07-12-2020 2:03pm

Invidious wrote: »

And the fact also remains that the woman in question will be taking maternity leave regardless, as confirmed by her spokesperson. So there's no huge issue here to get worked up about.

And yet here you are getting all worked up about it.

07-12-2020 2:13pm

If she is like most women, announcing a pregnancy, she is probably just entering her second trimester.

Which means most likely most of her time off will fall while the Dail is closed for the summer.

She probably planned it that way!

blanch152 · 07-12-2020 2:13pm

Invidious wrote: »

And yet she's taking maternity leave regardless, which makes all your hand-waving seem a little bit pointless.

Are you suggesting that she shouldn't get maternity leave or that she shouldn't take it?

One of the biggest problems with the glass ceiling is that senior positions are not treated the same for maternity leave as more junior ones in the same organisation or elsewhere. Quite often, there is pressure on would-be mothers to step down or their career can be adversely affected.

We need to change this.

miamee · 07-12-2020 3:34pm

Invidious wrote: »

And the fact also remains that the woman in question will be taking maternity leave regardless, as confirmed by her spokesperson. So there's no huge issue here to get worked up about.

But will she be able to take a full 26 weeks as every other woman in Ireland is entitled to do after giving birth? That is the issue most are seeing here, that she is in a position where her right to maternity leave is not guaranteed, in fact she appears not to have any. I'd imagine that will be rectified at some stage in the not too distant future but it will be interesting to see if and when it happens.

Invidious · 07-12-2020 3:57pm

miamee wrote: »

But will she be able to take a full 26 weeks as every other woman in Ireland is entitled to do after giving birth?

I'm sure she'd be able to if she wanted to. Whether she will or not is up to her; the only thing we know at present is that she plans to be absent for an unspecified period of time.

That said, what you're saying here is very different to another poster, who was insinuating that she wouldn't be able to take any maternity leave at all.

blanch152 · 07-12-2020 4:13pm

Invidious wrote: »

I'm sure she'd be able to if she wanted to. Whether she will or not is up to her; the only thing we know at present is that she plans to be absent for an unspecified period of time.

That said, what you're saying here is very different to another poster, who was insinuating that she wouldn't be able to take any maternity leave at all.

Are you suggesting that she should get out of bed after giving birth and just go back to work?

You seem to be insinuating something about her but I am not sure what.

Invidious · 07-12-2020 4:19pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that she should get out of bed after giving birth and just go back to work?

Where have I suggested such a thing?

I corrected a poster who insinuated that a sitting minister would be unable to take any maternity leave, pointing out that she does indeed plan to take maternity leave. And that's completely fine with me.

AllForIt · 07-12-2020 4:24pm

Finally women have the right to have a baby.

Feisar · 07-12-2020 4:33pm

Wibbs wrote: »

While I consider McEntee a muppet on a few levels Whippet is 100% spot on. The fact that there isn't the provision of maternity leave for a minister is daft. Something I didn't know either. I assumed that laws around maternity leave would apply to all jobs and positions? It seems not.

If someone is employed on a contract basis do they get paternity leave, I would have presumed not?
Is a ministerial position regular employment? One gets elected by the people to represent them and then have a child during the period. Unlike sickness which obviously isn't a choice is having a child during a time when an elected representative fair? Then there is the ministerial position, does a political party operate like a normal employer?

whippet · 07-12-2020 4:35pm

Invidious wrote: »

Where have I suggested such a thing?

I corrected a poster who insinuated that a sitting minister would be unable to take any maternity leave, pointing out that she does indeed plan to take maternity leave. And that's completely fine with me.

I pointed out that there is no provision in irish law for a sitting minister to take maternity leave. You want to twist this in a different way. You have stated that this isn't a newsworthy item - i disagreed and gave my reason.

She is obviously able to make a personal arrangement with her employers to facilitate extended time off to care for her new born .... however the newsworthness of the item is still there - she has no statutory entitlement to maternity leave.

whippet · 07-12-2020 4:36pm

Feisar wrote: »

Is a ministerial position regular employment

yes - it is salaried and normal PRSI, PAYE is paid on the employment.

biko · 07-12-2020 4:41pm

A tweet that became news that became a thread.
The Irish Sun eat your heart out..

Feisar · 07-12-2020 4:48pm

whippet wrote: »

yes - it is salaried and normal PRSI, PAYE is paid on the employment.

Cheers, I'm not trying to come across as a dick on the topic.

08-12-2020 5:49pm

Good interview with Lisa Chambers on RTE now discussing this.

General gist : Politics is very competitive and somewhat similar to self employment, it's not realistic to take 6 months out (although you can). You won't be re-elected next time round.

markodaly · 08-12-2020 10:59pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Good interview with Lisa Chambers on RTE now discussing this.

General gist : Politics is very competitive and somewhat similar to self employment, it's not realistic to take 6 months out (although you can). You won't be re-elected next time round.

Has it been revealed by Helen McEntee what type of leave she is taking?
If not, then perhaps best leave the speculation to the bots on Twitter.

Geuze · 09-12-2020 9:51am

Feisar wrote: »

If someone is employed on a contract basis do they get paternity leave, I would have presumed not?
Is a ministerial position regular employment? One gets elected by the people to represent them and then have a child during the period. Unlike sickness which obviously isn't a choice is having a child during a time when an elected representative fair? Then there is the ministerial position, does a political party operate like a normal employer?

The political party is not the employer.

The Oireachtas is the employer.

bobbysands81 · 09-12-2020 9:59am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Good interview with Lisa Chambers on RTE now discussing this.

General gist : Politics is very competitive and somewhat similar to self employment, it's not realistic to take 6 months out (although you can). You won't be re-elected next time round.

Not true in Helen’s sense as, being a Minister, she has a constituency office full of staff that are paid by the State to work on her behalf to serve her constituency needs as well as a plethora of advisors on a savage wage. This work has huge amounts of visibility and will continue whether she is working or not.

It could be argued that any Minister that fails to get re-elected, having access to these supports designed to get them re-elected so they can concentrate on matters of the State, is incompetent in the first place.

blanch152 · 09-12-2020 12:06pm

whippet wrote: »

Wow ... do some people really think like that in 2020?

Yes, these boards are full of that sort of thing.

09-12-2020 2:17pm

markodaly wrote: »

Has it been revealed by Helen McEntee what type of leave she is taking?
If not, then perhaps best leave the speculation to the bots on Twitter.

Not really what I was trying to do with that post but I am cynical about the nature of Ireland's local politics.

Good luck to her and I hope all goes well.

arctictree · 09-12-2020 3:03pm

whippet wrote: »

yes - it is salaried and normal PRSI, PAYE is paid on the employment.

But there is no security of employment. I doubt if a politician could bring their employer (the oireachtas) to the EAT for unfair dismissal after 4 years!
Lets face it, its not a normal job. Its not contracting either.

Junkyard Tom · 10-12-2020 12:03am

If, by some cosmic anomaly, humanity awoke tomorrow and it was men who got pregnant then, within months, there'd the great universal paternity leave, vending machines with the morning after pill, abortion on demand, creches in most pubs and so on.

JP Liz V1 · 06-01-2021 5:42pm

Apparently tested positive for Covid19, hope she and baby and family will be ok

biko · 06-01-2021 6:02pm

Oh crap, hope it won't be a problem for her.

markodaly · 11-03-2021 11:30pm

biko wrote: »

Oh crap, hope it won't be a problem for her.

Well, thankfully they have sorted this out and come to some arrangement.
https://www.thejournal.ie/helen-mcentee-maternity-leave-2-5378276-Mar2021/

But as usual, the some comments on Social Media and online are of the usual low-level sexist type.

UDAWINNER · 12-03-2021 2:06am

Its hard to believe thats it has taken until 2021 for this to be an Issue in Ireland. Really shows how backward we are in Ireland that a women has not been in this position ages ago.

Quantum Erasure · 12-03-2021 5:07am

just 10 days behind the UK...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/02/suella-braverman-becomes-first-cabinet-minister-take-paid-maternity/

UDAWINNER · 12-03-2021 5:26am

Really shows how difficult it is for some women to get in to these positions should they want children. It's been a mans world for way too long in some countries

cruizer101 · 12-03-2021 8:06am

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Its hard to believe thats it has taken until 2021 for this to be an Issue in Ireland. Really shows how backward we are in Ireland that a women has not been in this position ages ago.

Does it really?
I'm pretty sure there have been previous TD's pregnant.
When you think about it a Minister is a senior position, particularly one as important as Justice, think senior management. So it makes sense that it would generally be older people who are made ministers as have more experience.

If you think the normal politics career would be finish college 22, become a councillor for a few years, say up to 26, become a TD backbencher for a bit maybe a term or 2, so now in you 30's, get a junior ministerial position and then maybe if lucky get a ministerial position you are probably looking at close to 40.

Combine that with the fact the women used to have children earlier in life on average it really isn't that surprising that this is the first time a minister has had to take maternity leave.

Not saying more shouldn't be done to make it easier but I don' think it is necessarily a bad reflection that it hasn't happened before.

Mysterypunter · 12-03-2021 8:18am

Good luck to the girl, I hope it all goes well for her and her child, can't see what the problem is with maternity leave, it's part of an employment contract in every job, and if she is able, she will come back in due course, it's not as if she is resigning because of some sort of political scandal, people never reduce these things to a personal level, every situation is an opportunity for points scoring politically. I don't know if we need more women in politics, I think the answer would involve less people in politics, there are way too many as it is, there should be no issue with any female taking time off to start a family, and she is in a privileged position to be able to, what about people who cannot, due to financial circumstances and other reasons.

Eric Cartman · 12-03-2021 8:36am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If, by some cosmic anomaly, humanity awoke tomorrow and it was men who got pregnant then, within months, there'd the great universal paternity leave, vending machines with the morning after pill, abortion on demand, creches in most pubs and so on.

The usual impossible hypothetical, pre disposes that all these things haven't happened because its just men oppressing women for the craic.

Most opposition to abortion or the morning after pill is from other women.

On the minister taking time off - 6 months is too much , especially as her job isn't manual labour, a month, 2 tops should suffice.

CtevenSrowder · 12-03-2021 8:50am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If, by some cosmic anomaly, humanity awoke tomorrow and it was men who got pregnant then, within months, there'd the great universal paternity leave, vending machines with the morning after pill, abortion on demand, creches in most pubs and so on.

If men could get pregnant then they'd be women, and not men.

Montage of Feck · 12-03-2021 10:43am

I don't get the fuss, ministers take time off all the time for personal reasons and presumably they still get payed never mind all the other perks.

12-03-2021 10:45am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

On the minister taking time off - 6 months is too much , especially as her job isn't manual labour, a month, 2 tops should suffice.

So is it just female politicians that should get less maternity leave them all other mothers?

AMKC · 12-03-2021 10:59am

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

If men could get pregnant then they'd be women, and not men.

Not necesseraly. They could be Asexual. There could be Alien races out in the Universe for all we know that are the complete opposite to ours maybe some where they are all Asexual and others where the Female of the Species rules and is stronger than the male anc maybe the male does get pregnant. There is even animals now on our very planet some that are Asexual and some where the role of the Sexs is opposite to how it is with us humans. A seahorse I think is one example.

CtevenSrowder · 12-03-2021 11:04am

AMKC wrote: »

Not necesseraly. They could be Asexual. There could be Alien races out in the Universe for all we know that are the complete opposite to ours maybe some where they are all Asexual and others where the Female of the Species rules and is stronger than the male anc maybe the male does get pregnant. There is even animals now on our very planet some that are Asexual and some where the role of the Sexs is opposite to how it is with us humans. A seahorse I think is one example.

That's all great. But we're talking about humans and human societies here, in case you haven't realised.

vriesmays · 12-03-2021 1:47pm

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

If men could get pregnant then they'd be women, and not men.

Didn't know JK Rowling is on Boards.

Eric Cartman · 12-03-2021 2:26pm

bubblypop wrote: »

So is it just female politicians that should get less maternity leave them all other mothers?

politicians are there to represent their constituents, I think any job you are elected to do in such an ever changing space as politics has to be treated differently to a normal job. taking 6 months off is insane.

vriesmays · 12-03-2021 2:33pm

It's only right our male Ministers get 6 months paternity leave when their partners get pregnant. Only fair, equality and that.

Hotblack Desiato · 12-03-2021 2:46pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

On the minister taking time off - 6 months is too much , especially as her job isn't manual labour, a month, 2 tops should suffice.

:rolleyes: it's not just for her to recover from the pregnancy, it's for the welfare of her child ffs.

12-03-2021 2:49pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

politicians are there to represent their constituents, I think any job you are elected to do in such an ever changing space as politics has to be treated differently to a normal job. taking 6 months off is insane.

What about any other job?
Why should women get 6 months away from their positions?
Or do you believe that the Minister is actually running the department? What do you suppose all the civil servants do?

MrMusician18 · 12-03-2021 2:56pm

vriesmays wrote: »

It's only right our male Ministers get 6 months paternity leave when their partners get pregnant. Only fair, equality and that.

I've long believed that maternity leave should be shared. Why can't the couple divide up the leave how they see fit?

If men were took substantial periods of leave in their late twenties and thirties, then you might see more equality down the line when it comes to promotion and senior positions.

secondrowgal · 12-03-2021 3:14pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The usual impossible hypothetical, pre disposes that all these things haven't happened because its just men oppressing women for the craic.

Most opposition to abortion or the morning after pill is from other women.

On the minister taking time off - 6 months is too much , especially as her job isn't manual labour, a month, 2 tops should suffice.

I've never seen or heard of this before - do you have a link?

And she's entitled to the same maternity leave as anyone else, which is 6 months.