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The Ground Mount "Tubs" Thread.

  • 18-10-2024 7:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭


    I thought this might serve others well who perhaps don't have a good south facing roof, but do have a little bit of extra south facing grass. You could consider this alternative ground mounting option.

    Long story short, my roof might have gotten 11 panels in an east / west configuration. I have space out the back, but I wasn't mad about a big industrial mount, so I had decided to take the performance hit and put them on the roof.

    But in fairness to the installers they showed me this option and advised me well so I made right choice in the end.

    It's pretty ingenious, and requires very little work.

    I was lucky I had a relatively flat area of grass behind a shed that is open to the south, and importantly was doing nothing. It's not totally level. There is a slight hump, but it didn't matter. I didn't need any ground works. The most I did was dig a shallow trench for the cables to the back door.

    I had pre ordered

    3 bags of hardcore stone.

    50m of Weed blocker.

    50 cement blocks.

    First step was to roll out the weed blocker and wheel barrow some stone to hold it down.

    The tubs were then placed in a line. They are 1.8m wide and hold one panel each. I put 5 in a line and put in 3 rows. Each row needs to be 1.2-1.5 apart for shadows. I was going for 16 panels so I ended up with one extra 4th row of just one panel , but to the side of the shed so makes use of some dead space.

    Each tub had 3 cement blocks placed into them, so they won't blow over, but you can shift it a little if you need to level it later by putting a shovel of stone under it.

    The 16 Panels were attached then. The panel guys started at 9am and we're packed in the van by 12pm heading for home, job done. The Electricians then finished the installation.

    Because it's right behind the shed I put the battery and inverter in the shed and then ran a cable to the back door to the fuse board.

    I've been very happy with them. They perform very well. I've often seen them hitting well over 6.5kw.

    Cost was €9,600. After grant. For 16 x 430w panels , 16 tubs, 5kw battery, inverter and fitting.

    Pros:

    No scaffolding. / Roof access.

    If I need to move them later I can.

    I can clean them easily.

    It's easy to add more.

    Cons:

    They are big. So you do need space.

    Kids can walk on them.

    You see them all the time. ( I think they look nice but that's not shared by everyone in the house 😀 )

    Here's some pictures. I am planning on adding a wooden sleeper border and some more "decorative stone" so it's more of a feature.

    If you have any questions fire away.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭conor_mc


    Looks pretty great to me, but I guess I’m not as aesthetically tuned as others in my household too! 😁

    I used 4 of these on a garden office flat roof, 2-east 2-west. Bit of a balancing act between ballast and roof strength but think we’re good, I guess we’ll see when it gets proper windy over the winter!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭hydrus21


    Thanks for posting.

    👍️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭hydrus21


    What size cable from panels to inverter ?

    Looks heavy duty



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    It's actually looks to be just some sort of cable tidying system. The 4 strings go into this. I suspect it's to keep them from direct contact with the soil and to tidy it up a bit.

    The 4 cables come off the panels and enter this box. Then out again to the shed along with some power and in the shed they come out and into the inverter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭hydrus21


    Ah Ok. I was looking at plastic conduit and not copper cable.

    A lot cheaper. 🙂



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  • Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    @Grumpypants Did you not bury the cable ?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    From the panels to the shed and from the inverter to the house are buried. But not the one that has the strings between rows. They are buried in gravel and I'll be making that a bit deeper next year again.



  • Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks. I'm considering something similar to add to what I have on the roof. Have plenty of space in my field at the back.

    What length are your rows?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Each panel is just under 1800mm wide so the row of 5 panels works out at just about 9 meters long. It's prob good to have another half a meter beyond that too. To walk around and You don't want them close to a hedge or wall that casts a shadow over them after 9am.

    And each row then needs to be about 1200mm apart. So you need maybe 7 or 8 meters the other way too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭rob w


    Looks great, nice job! Interesting!

    A few questions though.…

    What are the 'tubs', where did you get them from?

    You say there was no ground works required, the tubs look partially buried - are they?

    How were the panels fixed to the tubs?

    Thanks



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    The installers supplied them, not sure of the exact brand. But they are a low profile so look buried but just sit on the ground. The stone is maybe an inch or two up around the base but no digging down. They are attached with fittings that come with the tubs. Thinks it's two brackets and a few clips.

    If I was to do anything differently I'd have built each row on a step. That way each row behind would be 6 to 8 inches higher and you could put them a bit closer together.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I was thinking the same thing….. that and if you could have the "steps" angled at 10 degrees. One of the big drawbacks of those tubs is that you only have an angle of 15 or so degrees to the horizontal plane. For spring/summer/autumn this doesn't matter much, but in winter with the sun so low on the horizon it beings to impact.

    Still though, nice looking job there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Have 10 of these renusol tubs being installed tuesday and 8 panels on my shed all facing due south. I used pvgis and i think the difference was circa 5% less efficient being at 15deg rather then 40deg angle throughout the year. The fact the tubs can be faced due south makes up for this in my case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Yeah that was my thinking. East/west on the roof would cost me at least 20%. So even if the 15 degrees isn't perfect, it's south so a big step up from the roof option.

    And even though they are too heavy to blow away in a storm, the tubs are light enough I could lift the back with a shovel and tilt them forward if needs be. I could slide in a few blocks.



  • Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Id only be looking at 2kw of panels facing south and a loss off 100kwh over the year.

    Buying the bricks to adjust would cost more than is produce

    Is there a max size panel that fits them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    PVGIS doesn't really give you the data what you want directly. While your right @newhouse that the difference is only 5% for the year, you'll notice that for winter months the difference could be 20-30% more for those specific months. It's those months that you need to eek out every bit that you can get as it's when you need it most. I'd have a think about what you can do there to see if you can get even a 10deg gain in slope. It should cost you nothing as you say… barring a few bricks :-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    My panels are 430w and are 1800mmx 1380mm. And they have a bit of overlap. I'm not sure if there is a max size, I'm sure there is, but I'm not sure of panels that are that much bigger either.

    I've seen someone else get steeper vertical ones for a better angle and would fit a tighter space, but that is a higher profile. I like that mine are low and almost out of the sight line.

    I've also seen someone on YouTube simply use the tub to fit the roof railing to, and then they fit the panels to the rails. It makes it one big long stiff row rather than individual panels in a row.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Good job, nice to see ground mount being done as it is a valid option for many - it's just a hard-sell aesthetically.

    Just one thing to point out - your conduit will collect indirect splash off the ground so the open tops should ideally be protected or closed off.



  • Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I was just thinking. Wouldn't they just fill with rain water? Is there drainage holes?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Wouldn't rainwater just increases its ballast if anything, what would be the problem if rain got in??



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Possibly stagnant water wouldn't be that nice,

    Drainage holes wouldn't be hard to make though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Just checked, bore holes on floor of tubs for drainage.



  • Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Panels with electrical wiring sitting on a tub of water!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Mosquitos! Any puddle around my house this year had larvae in them and we had quite a few come into the house in early Summer.

    Post edited by 10-10-20 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Actually tubs out there now you use water to weigh down so it's obviously not an issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    They have holes to drain out the water. But the panel covers the whole open section and a good few inches over overlap. So Any rain that does get in there would likely be from some strong sideways windy rain. Which is not uncommon where I live 😅.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I had drastically underestimated the impact of shadows.

    Over December/Jan I noticed my output had dropped off dramatically.Thought this was expected in December. And it wasn't terrible. But I was noticing that bright but cloudy days were productive, I'd see rates go over 1kw an hour. where as blue sky sunny days were only giving 0.4kw

    I noticed that the panels were too close and there was a line of a shadow about 20% coverage across the bottom from the row in front.

    So today, and thanks to the biggest benefits of the ground tubs. I literally just dragged the rows out of the shadows , only needed about 10 inches.

    Right away production jumped from 400w to 2.9kw an hour. It's a lovely sunny day today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Noticed The same on mine a week after installation and spaced them apart. Long winter shadows installers may have underestimated.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,167 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I think in the summer I may look at a little project to step up each row so it's 6inches higher than the one in front. Should help even more. As even with the spacing today anything earlier than 11am will still have shadows.



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