M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I would imagine they are not near as much a pipe-dream as the prospect of re-building entire cites to facilitate "localisation"!

It isn't happening on any scale anywhere that I know of.

It isn't happening in any cities to any scale?

Densification in housing isn't happening at any scale in any? Planning and zoning mixed use development isn't happening at scale in any city?

Or you know very few cities?

How exactly would you define localisation? Nothing other than people living in the same building?

I was thinking localism was living and working in the same neighborhood -- I'd see the Dublin Docklands as such a neighborhood, even if the Docklands isn't a perfect example. The in the one building comment was me going over the top for effect.

I don't think that type of neighborhood localism is a single solution but part of a mix, including people traveling sustainably around a city and into a city from commuter areas.

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

But shure, there aren't many cities in England and Wales compared to here - and we are far more advanced in our densification and planning and public transport infrastructure and pipe-dreams and all that stuff :rolleyes:

The UK -- besides limited areas -- is overall as or around about as car centric car centric as Ireland.

Margaret Thatcher had her policies around 'the great car economy' and David Cameron is reported to be filling in that legacy.

Let's talk about multi-modal transport...

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Unlike North America??

Many US cities are at least trying harder or look like they are trying harder than Galway to have attractive multi-modal transport options.

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Let's flip back to my original point; the "localisation"/re-engineering of cities so that we won't need the likes of the Galway bypass is far more a "pipe-dream" (your term, not mine) than Green Cars.

I fear this conversation is drifting away from discussing the vital need of the Galway Bypass for the prosperous development and expansion of modern Galway.

While it won't guarantee a prosperous Galway, it is a necessary prerequisite. We should be dealing with current and probable mid-term (say, the next 30 years) reality rather that green fantasies rooted in some sort of half-thought-out anti-car "philosophy".

The problem is that Galway has not in any meaningful way tried to have viable multi-modal transport.

Bus priority is minimal, crossing many roads outside the city centre is a reminder of what it was like 20 or 40 years ago for other cities and the cycling network is a joke.

spacetweek wrote: »

Indeed - the vast tram and underground networks to be found in all Eastern European cities aren't due to planning and civility - it's mostly because private car ownership was restricted or not allowed at all under communism. That, and living standards weren't high enough to enable people to afford them even if they were allowed.

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I'm taken by the chap above who praises the Soviet Union for designing its cities along the lines being suggested here - since people got some political freedom and central planning collapsed under the weight of its own failure to improve living standards, Russia's cities are now clogged with cars and the country is trying to play catch-up building roads to accommodate the way people choose to live

Even in Moscow which already had a vast, excellent and growing PT infrastructure - massive new roads are being created to allow for the multi-modal transport options required to sustain a modern city and economy.

You would latch onto somebody joking about the Soviet Union, and it's telling that you think car clogged, heavily polluted cities are a good thing.

Some of the richest countries -- which have been wealthy for longer than us -- have a more balanced multi-modal transport system, sometimes with higher car ownership but lower car usage.

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

We are starting to go around in circles but the places you refer to are tiny very crowded places like Holland; and even then they have a motorway system in and around their cities we can only dream about.

They also have tram, commuter rail/metro systems we can only dream on - but Galway is merely a medium size town in a rural area; the sort of town that gets bypasses built across the world without a second glance.

Your claim to imagine that I think traffic jams in Russia are a good thing (I don't) is pretty irrelevant. The point I'm making is that thanks to the blessings of Stalin they started out (a mere 25 years ago) with what you imagine our near-future will look like and ended looking just like all our "car-depended" developed world!

The current N6 in Galway City would be the bypass in a Dutch city where there isn't another major urban population on the other side (as is the case in Galway). Segregation of modes and sometimes flows is key.

Redesigning roundabouts into junctions as Galway has done in a way which mix everything is bad for all modes -- bad for local and bypass motor traffic, walking, cycling and buses.

And Dutch cities larger than Galway don't have tram or metro lines. The country by the way is the Netherlands, Holand is a region.

As for you keep going on about Galway being a city/town in a rural area -- that's what cities the size of Galway and larger usually are: urban areas with rural areas around them. Not sure why you think Galway is so different on that.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Getting back on topic.

Would making Bothar Na Treabh freeflow solve a lot of the problems? Add another bridge over the Corrib and you are done. Could be done peacemeal, but a steady go at it could get it done before all the appeals and protests are over.

There's lots which could be done in Galway in a peacemeal way which could be more effective for transport in Galway than the hope of a bypass. The current Quincentenary Bridge could be used.

A new pedestrian and cycling bridge could be put in near to the Quincentenary bridge and then the footpaths and cycle paths on the Quincentenary bridge could be converted to traffic or bus lanes.

As above, segregation of modes and flows -- better ways of handling junction points to suit all or more modes and flows.

L1011 wrote: »

Bridge across the Corrib is the dearest part of the project, the hardest to get permission for and the most likely to cause protests.

Existing joke 'bypass' runs within strolling distance of the city centre (1km walk to Eyre Square, far less to the actual city) and is built far too close to to make freeflow.

The design of the closest roundabout and other junctions could be much better at segregating flows and modes for a fraction of the cost of a new bypass. There are some restrictions and pinch points but overall it's not that built up around the current route -- a lot more could be done.

The problem is made worse by trying to have all routes doing all things. For example, walking and cycling traffic could be removed off the Quincentenary Bridge and with a new walking and cycling bridge, the quality of service for walking and cycling would be higher than on the current route.