Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

I can.

Your proposal is short by 60 cent.

Who is going to pay that 60 cent so that you can get it ?

@Boggles what you think now?

Soda water has come down in price slightly so that means nothing else has increased in price to fund up front costs of RVMs. They dont need electricity either. They run on green party promises.

No-one needs to know anything about total unclaimed deposits. None of our business.

CEO Foley says all we need are public bin surrounds so we can give our deposit to someone else if we want to. Lovely.

Apart from that Re-Turn is all good /thread 🤣

Product cost 6 euro. Cans cost 60 cent. Pay 6 euro for product, return the cans and therefore your deposit and you have paid 5.40 for the content, not the product.

Just as you did before the scheme.

Thats my last go, if you dont get it, you dont get it, sorry.

I can't understand with all the research into this scheme, public consultation, trips to other countries to see how they did it, why we have ended up in a starting position where it appears as if nothing has been learned from schemes prior to this one. People are disillusioned with the scheme in it's current guise and most people are only engaging because they have to, but the people who never engaged with recycling in the first place aren't doing it with this scheme either, not surprisingly.

But why wasn't this set up right from the start? Can that be answered?

I haven't, and there are not many places to do it. In the sense of places without machines, but which store returns in the supplied bags for collection by the Re-Turn vehicles. There are no machines listed in the Cooley Peninsula in Co Louth. It struck me that the populations in places like Carlingford and Greenore would be making some noise if it was an issue for them.

Your best bet might be to try to do a manual return at a shop like Tesco or Dunnes to see what happens.

From Re-Turn press release 01 August:

In line with the growing adoption of the Scheme, the Re-turn network of Deposit Return Points has grown by more than 870. There are now over 2,500 Reverse Vending Machines and 323 manual return points nationwide.

There are a few disillusioned types here all right, but the citizens who don't even know this thread exists are bringing back 3 million containers a day. You are in early with the stats about the people not engaging. Re-Turn want to wait until July next year to assess progress.

As far as Dunnes or a Tesco, 58 miles away. No thanks

Why do you bother then? Seems like your audience are citizens who don't even know this thread exists.

Because you aren't convincing anyone here with with smoke and mirrors and deflections.

The illusions are being spun by Re-turn and the Green Party, hiding information on what % of items are actually being collected and recycled.

You were asked earlier on the thread what % did 3 million containers represent?
No response.
So to make claims about 'disillusioned types' when you have no answers to relevant questions is without foundation and without merit.

What % of the items collected are being recycled?
No response.

Re-turn want to wait until July? I'm sure they would, I'm sure they'd like to dodge any real questions about the scheme and have their lapdogs in the media peddle their press releases without engaging their brains to dupe those not paying close attention.

Along the lines of your question about how many items have been recycled I'm starting to think this scheme is being sold to us is greenwashing.

As an example the Dunnes Stores machines have "recycle your empty PET containers and cans here" written on them but essentially the machine is just a bin for collecting these. They aren't recycled "here".

Vague nonsense. "A lot of stuff". A lot of stuff like what and how is that enforced in practice?

There are some shops in Cooley. There are no real supermarkets because they shop in Newry.

Are you seriously going to pretend that NIRMS is going to in practice impact people from the Republic going up to buy cans of coke?

There's posters on the thread who've bought soft drinks there, no issue.

It has something to do with Brexit I think.

They said it was to avoid confusion with the daily average of sales. Something like 5 million. But that is not equal over the months, with Christmas being a marked outlier. One year will iron out that.

Your answer makes no sense. Smoke and mirrors whenever real questions are asked of Re-turn.

Re-turn have budgeted for 90% of items being returned.
So how can they ever claim that funding?
How could they have ever come up with that figure?

How many items are being sold with deposits?

How many items are being returned?

Simple figures.

Of course they can come up with figures and percentages of total ins and outs.

This is how the Re-Turn people explain it. You can make up your own stats in the meantime.

Return rates

The Irish Scheme began on 1 February 2024. Retailers are still phasing out non-logo and non-deposit drinks containers on shelves until the end of the transition period, 31 May 2024. Therefore, Ireland will not have a full year of the scheme in action until 1 June 2025 to assess more accurate return metrics.

The assumption of an equal number of containers sold daily throughout the year, 5 million per day, doesn’t align with the actual sales pattern of drink containers. Peak periods, such as Christmas and the summer months, significantly impact sales. Additionally, this method fails to consider the volume of non-deposit stock sold by retailers during the transition period until 31 May 2024.

Germany tried very hard to get people to adopt re-usable containers. But that met too much resistance, so they went for the machines and the deposit. I think they do about 17 billion a year. The claim is that keeping PET and aliminium out of the general recycling has great advantages when it comes to making new cans and bottles out of the material.

The industry is never going to set up a dedicated re-usable model just for the Irish drinks market. It is vague enough about where our stuff will be processed, but if it is abroad for the time being it will still be in the separated stream. The next item up from the Circular Economy legislation could be a charge on those paper coffee cups and similar. That should make you more optimistic.

You can make your point without the BS FFS nonsense.

How can it be a price increase if there's no price increase if you follow the deposit return process?

Honestly, this is really basic primary school stuff, you're fighting with a cloud and losing.

Are people getting foked up hauling cans n bottles to these machines yet when ya have a perfectly good green bin 2m from your back door and paying increased cost for said service but can't use it to recycle said such materials due to more costs. Hilarious ,and getting grief in certain return trips. All good aint it. Ingenious plan 🤣for profit

So no changes to the scheme till next July at the earliest?

What about all of that money and time that went into preparing the scheme? Completely pointless by the looks of it. Lets just run a 1 year pilot scheme - which is essentially now what this current period is - do you agree?

I don't know why you are giving them an out - and continue to do so. Surely you can see that they have ZERO chance of getting near 90 percent collection rate by July next year. ZERO.

But no, lets drag it out, continue to p1ss people off, contine to LOSE people who would have used their recycle bin religiously prior to this scheme and continue to stick the head in the sand about how much of a scam this is!

When you look closer and ponder a bit about what you see you will see one of the bins still opened. Green enterprenuers are taking bags out of a bins and after searching for the gold they leave a mess behind.

The real culprit is idiotic scheme which alienated people to the point they dont bother and toss returnable containers in a bin.

Not only that.

You are essentially lending your own money to a company which does not pay you any interest. They are forcing you to tie in certain amount for the time you return containers while they are free to use them as they please. While it is a small amount you should multiply that by numbers of containers and you will see that said company is getting interest free investment in tens of milions if not more...

Nope. It does not help with problem at hand. They will go after big bins where people put rubbish in black bin bags. They will go for it because one cant see what is in black bag and so they will search since they do have nothing else to do.

And if you think that people who put returnable containers in rubbish are going to walk to find dedicated bottle holders bins you are in for a surprise. If they dont bother to return them they wont bother to set them aside.

We are talking about household bins or apartment blocks bins in laneways and not on-street bins in the middle of a city.

There are 33,000 NGO’s in Ireland all sucking at the teat of the Irish taxpayer. All with Boards of at least 6 directors, most paid, some voluntary (school BoM’s).
You’re fighting a lost cause for now.

Too much misinformation and disinformation here. It's not a Scam. It's not a Quango. It's not a NGO. Stick to the facts.