USA 2024 presidential election

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The election proved democracy works. You need only look at how the transfer of power goes now when Trump wins versus when he lost 4 years ago. Reps had all sorts of quite insidious methods to challange this election if it didn’t go their way. I’m surprised this seems to be brushed under the carpet by people laughing at the “paranoid” Dems.

Do you think in 4 years time, if, for example , one of Trumps spawns goes for election, that there will be a peaceful handover if they lose ?

Id take it that they are saying “democracy is dead” because there is strong reason to believe that Trump will now spend the next 2-4 years deconstructing the safeguards in place that protected its citizens from the whims of its president.

I think Trump will

- end war in Ukraine by forcing them to take whatever deal Putin wants
-let Israel do what they want to Palestinians
- deport a bunch of people and we will hear some horror stories because he wants the optics of strongman
-he will use his position of power , practically nothing stopping him, to manipulate the laws/rules to solidify his position
- if he’s still interested in next election, he won’t go peacefully if he loses

-make at least one massive call that destabilises global economy and security

-he will vehemently go after any dissenting voice against him, he’s a history of transactional relationships, doesn’t care you’ve done once you grovel back or hide in your hole when he’s won

-enrich himself and anybody on team Trump

American politics needed a dramatic Change and I think Trump will do that , but it’s hard to see how anybody could honestly think he will do what’s in the greater good interest. Like, if you could choose a person with a blank canvas to create a better world, he would look a disaster on paper. Nobody even argues he’s not a rampant narcissist, how can anybody think that’s just the sort of person who will bring change that’s best for all ?

Dems will be just as culpable for whatever damage he does. They’ve been little short of shameful in how they try to smugly insult opponents and lecture them on democracy when the Clinton’s/obamas decide who will be running for them. They’ve been pathetic, offering f**k all to the electorate. Trump is as much a symptom of their failing as republicans cowardly taking it in the rear to sycophantically cling to Trumps coattails.

Some of what Trump does will optically look good like ending war in Ukraine. The question is how that plays out longer term for stability of Europe. Germany will actually like having access to cheap Russian gas so many will be secretly happy and publicly less enthusiastic. In many ways we in europe have been piggy backing on US security so I don’t think Trump is wrong about not wanting USA to be world police. From a self preservation POV I do worry what’s gonna happen to us longer term as I feel Putin will continue destabilising an easily fractured Europe. Another potential Brexit is probable in next 10 years.

So my view on Trump is that there’s an awful lot of hard truths he says about the broken system in American politics and geopolitical reliance on USA to keep balance. But I don’t think the kind of character/person he clearly is (and the people who are surrounding him) is best suited to redraw the rules of world (and USA) order. People have turned to somebody who most don’t really understand (“he doesn’t really mean that” ….) in desperation for hope of change, I don’t think it’s going to be the positive change they expected.

But I view this more pragmatically in feeling that our human societies are just pathetic in general at fixing broken systems and usually need massive pain/destruction To rebalance. We’ve taken relative freedom for granted and allowed it to warp into the weird world we see today where there’s never been a greater gap between the rich and poor and people are think a billionaire who inherited their wealth from daddy is gonna fix it. You wouldn’t believe it, if it was a movie released in 2015 but here we are…

Bookmark this and see how much I get right in next 4 years.

Nobody was sent to gulags?

Trump had people in cages, he literally lost 6000 children that he separated from their parents, deliberately cruel, on purpose, as a deterrent to migration, and later could not re-unite them because he didn't bother keeping records when he was caging them

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116917364/how-the-trump-white-house-misled-the-world-about-its-family-separation-policy

These things happened to thousands of people. The next term, Trump has given himself permission, nay, an obligation, to do this on a much much bigger scale. And he has already got the people lined up to implement these policies, and plans to deal with anyone who refuses to comply with them. (in the first term, he was hampered by legal challenges and civil servants who did not want to implement these cruel policies)

Enjoy the celebrations.

I remember after Brexit, the 'pwmed the libs' crowd celebrated their victory too, then when brexit actually happened, complained about the brexit they got, and wondered why they were poorer, had worse prospects and fewer rights

When decisions are objectively stupid and wrong, and when decisions are made on the basis of lies and propaganda instead of rational honest arguments, the penny will eventually drop. With Trump, on January 20th next year, the penny will drop very quickly for many people who didn't think 'project 2025' was real (because Trump Lied through his teeth about it being his agenda)

the writing was on the wall months ago, you could see Americans were angry, disillusioned with the current policies and inflation, migration and sponsoring war around the world etc. Trump was winning.

Im no trump fan, but the cry babies, the world media and flakeys, and even here the way he is being addressed….crazy. he won the election, thats that.

why arent all these flakey singers / actors and news sites around the globe laying into the likes of putin and others the way they do with trump if they are all that high and mighty ? Fvkin nuts for these types to be endorsing presidential candidates anyway imo.

ive watched both sides of american media for the last while, demo's were cocky, they put in slow joe, was never fit for office in the first place. Harris wasn't strong either, but they had no other options, bad planning of epic proportions. They will pay dearly. They lost out on the leg work at ground level too from what i could see on their media.

US is on a new path now, whether you like it or not. He is going to pass x-orders almost instantly come the office.

their US stocks surged and the dollar gained strength , great for them, but for us across the water who knows what it will bring this end.

one things for sure, the government clowns here who run this welfare state and throw around money like its rice are going to be looking for a lot more money to run this island, and the ever looming worry of US investment here attached to irish jobs is heart stopping when you think about it. Just watch our clowns bow at this feet, they have no choice. Theyll be two faced to him like they were the last time. Irish media need to think of their tone before they speak about Trump.

Listening to other commentary about US contribution to Nato etc, russia on the EU's doorstep…..daunting if he retracts US involvement there too and the EU have to play head doorman at their own pool party.

Lots of ppl are spooked, a lot more than when Trump was in on his first term. He has everyone running left and right.

"People didn’t vote for Trump, they voted against you.
They voted against your “if you don’t agree with me then you’re my enemy” mentality.
They voted against your need to have an echo chamber or risk being canceled.
They voted against being attacked for a difference in opinion.

They voted against having to walk on eggshells for fear of offending someone."

Surely those four statements can only, truthfully , be aimed at the Trump campaign.

'They voted against being called pedos, racists, homophobes, Nazis simply for disagreeing with you.'

Pointing our Trumps fascist rhetoric is surely necessary if your are to have an honest debate?

That anecdotal story sounds like a greedy boss talking bollox to his staff.

Trump first and foremost is a "businessman" and i use the term loosly. I'll be absolutely shocked if there are a single tariff (with the exception of China)

The post you lifted sounds made up.

Exit poll after exit poll shows you that the economy, in particular inflation and the cost of living, was really hurting the working class.

If there is evidence of it staring you in the face, why do you choose to ignore it? Because of 'feelzz'?

I don’t understand why there isn’t more discussion on the fact that Trump effectively only matched his turnout numbers from last time. He hasn’t improved , dems vote collapsed.

Are exit polls asking people voting ? If so, then the real reason why Trump won is more down to the people who chose not to vote this time around. What is it 10-11 million less voters for dems ? They didn’t turn to Trump, so the reason they didn’t vote decided this election.

Trump should improve on his numbers from last time out, once all the numbers are in.

But yes, the Democratic vote is down a lot, approx 10 million people or so.

Maybe people got tired of the negative campaign from the Democrats and chose to stay at home.

Negative campaign from the Democrats?

In what universe were the Republicans not running a negative campaign?
Trump was openly calling his opponent 'retarded'.

How about a definition of what counts as a negative campaign, and some assessment of how both sides campaigns stack up against that. For every 'negative' comment from a Democrat, I'm sure either more or far worse can be found from a Republican.

I'm not out of touch, I'm fully aware of the thought process that goes on. It doesn't make them any less wrong.

I could use a Simpsons meme now, but not sure if they are allowed in this thread.

But yea, you are out of touch.

Harris lost the election, Trump won it, and he won it on the fundamentals of the economy and the cost of living.

Trump's proposals will do nothing for those fundamentals, expert analysis was that they would be far worse.

If you disagree please explain how they will be better than Biden-Harris type approach.
And if you disagree, then you seem to be accepting that Trump duped the electorate \ won on perception \ simplicity of his message - not on 'fundamentals'.

Cheap shots backed up by nothing.

Biden-Harris didn't sit back. They send billions of aid.
Unless you think they should have sent in US forces to directly engage?

Meanwhile Trump twice tried to hold up aid to Ukraine purely for cynical domestic political reasons.

A weak US? Trump has given indications of not assisting NATO members if he thinks they didn't "pay their way".
He effectively surrendered to the Taliban in the dreadful deal signed under his Presidency.

Israel wouldn't have to wait for a 'weak' US, under Trump they would have everything they asked for, and more … Trump is the one urging them to get the job done and was critical of the Biden administration for not getting weapons to Israel quick enough.

Your claims don't stand up to any scrutiny.

No US administration has ever been good for Palestinians.

Biden knew it was a disastrous deal, why did he allow it to go ahead. He knew, well not to the extent, how bad it was likely going to end up. He's as culpable as the other idiot for that deal

10 years ago, a basket of food in the US cost 50% less than Ireland. Now the same basket costs 30% more than Ireland.

For the people on a lower wage, certain foods have become unaffordable. Although this trend was happening even before Biden came to power. Biden could have done something about it but didn't. However I can't see Trump improve this situation. His trickle down economics is not going to cut grocery prices at all.

A lot of the analysis we are now seeing is based on exits polls. On TV news, I think CNN, on hte morning after one commentator opined that exit polls are not worth the paper they are written on. His point was that they are based voters coming from the polling station being willing to discuss with a total stranger how they voted and why. Such voters are a self selected group and bear no relationship to the general electorate. It is one of the reason why , at one point, according to the exit polls, the 'protection of democracy' was the number one issue for voters, 'abortion right' and economy were second and third. Clearly , in that poll, more democratic voters were willing to talk with the pollster.

Anecdotally though, there is some evidence that other issues were at play. Many Latino and black males said they would not vote for a woman. I just heard the same point on RTE Clare Byrne this minute, that not only misogyny amongst men, many women in US also do not believe that a woman should be in charge.

And as @Dogsdodogsstuff said, these polls do not capture those who did not go out to vote. A lot is being made about Harris being a weak candidate. But the truth is that a man who has already put American democracy in jeopardy , who has used hate speech to describe a lot of his opponents, who has threatened to weaponise the justice department against his political opponents , was seen as a better candidate by the American electorate. A lot of those were not interested in the economy, good or bad. Or at least not interested enough to actually look at the data which showed the US as one of strongest economies post Corvid, in the world.

Biden can't be as 'culpable' for culpable to have any meaning.

Trump negotiated an awful deal from a position of relative strength.
He weakened the position that Biden inherited.
You can criticise Biden for not doing more to correct the mess, but the weak hand he was dealt was all on Trump.

The primary culpability clearly lies with Trump for signing the deal in the first place, a deal that meant it was very difficult to reverse it on the ground even if later events showed it to be unwise.

Just a note on food quality in the US. Quality has always been more affordable in Ireland, even when I emigrated to the US in the 80s.

Their food was cheap and poor quality then, but now it's expensive and still poor quality according to my US relatives who come to Ireland often.