VW ID.3

Lumen · 31-08-2019 10:47am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well if you don't want to use past performance why are you asking the question?

What else can we use?

Reasoning?

Future depreciation depends on availability of competing product (and supply/demand) in the future.

The feature set and "performance" of ICE cars is fairly stable, every refresh you get fractionally better screens, softer plastics, more USB ports.

That is not the case with EVs.

Your estimate of 27k after 2 years (if that's what you're saying) seems brave given that it'll be possible to buy a brand new car with twice the usable battery for only a couple of thousand more.

So I wouldn't be surprised if an eGolf at 38k or whatever lost 20k of that value in the first two years.

But then so will a Model 3, probably, and you can't actually buy one of those.

So, meh.

Mike9832 · 31-08-2019 11:14am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Where is a 191 eGolf selling for 25K?

A 171 which had the new battery and similar spec to the Gen 1 sold for 27k+ earlier this year.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201903286376246?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2019&postcode=m52ty&sort=price-asc&page=1&price-from=500&make=VOLKSWAGEN&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

Loads in UK

Mike9832 · 31-08-2019 11:18am

charlieIRL wrote: »

Not a chance of getting a new one here for €30k! Believe me I’ve been trying, even a 191 from the UK is near €30 home.

I’ve the figures left st work but thing a standard one was €38 and the Executive was €43 after grants.

I've seen way under €30k

Only €250 to vrt this one

Under €25k all in with a small bit of haggling

Some car for that

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201903286376246?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2019&postcode=m52ty&sort=price-asc&page=1&price-from=500&make=VOLKSWAGEN&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

Mike9832 · 31-08-2019 11:21am

Lumen wrote: »

Hmmm. Past performance is no guide to future performance.

In two years it should be possible to buy a decent 50kWh EV out of a showroom for under €30K.

I can't see eGolf prices holding up well.

They falling in UK already

Class car imo, miles better than Leaf/Ioniq etc

Normally hate in VW but it drives so well and perfect inside

Leaf and Ioniq feel cheaply made in comparison, especially Ioniq, which I found noisy too

unkel · 31-08-2019 6:36pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

I've seen way under €30k

Only €250 to vrt this one

Under €25k all in with a small bit of haggling

Some car for that

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201903286376246?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2019&postcode=m52ty&sort=price-asc&page=1&price-from=500&make=VOLKSWAGEN&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

No VRT as the OMSP of a second hand eGolf is below €35k. Even if they'd charge you, I'd say you can successfully fight that

Asking GBP22,990. Also you won't get much money off as it's from a dealer. But let's say you got it for GBP22,800

With the great sterling rate and using the likes of revolut, that would be €25,200. Plus flight, ferry, expenses, number plates. If you do really well you can land that on Irish plates for €25,400 - brilliant value for money EV for that sort of money

And there are not "loads of them" at that price, only this particular one. The next one up is GBP500 more expensive

Shefwedfan · 31-08-2019 7:20pm

Lumen wrote: »

Reasoning?

Future depreciation depends on availability of competing product (and supply/demand) in the future.

The feature set and "performance" of ICE cars is fairly stable, every refresh you get fractionally better screens, softer plastics, more USB ports.

That is not the case with EVs.

Your estimate of 27k after 2 years (if that's what you're saying) seems brave given that it'll be possible to buy a brand new car with twice the usable battery for only a couple of thousand more.

So I wouldn't be surprised if an eGolf at 38k or whatever lost 20k of that value in the first two years.

But then so will a Model 3, probably, and you can't actually buy one of those.

So, meh.

Not an estimate. A 171 eGolf was sold by Electric autos for around 27k earlier this year.....

I sold my 151 for 18k a few months back.

unkel · 31-08-2019 7:27pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I sold my 151 for 18k a few months back.

Didn't realise you finally sold it! That was a very good price you got! What car you got now?

Lumen · 31-08-2019 7:33pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not an estimate. A 171 eGolf was sold by Electric autos for around 27k earlier this year.....

I understand that, but my question was about future value. Do I need to use more italics? :pac:

charlieIRL · 31-08-2019 7:48pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not an estimate. A 171 eGolf was sold by Electric autos for around 27k earlier this year.....

I sold my 151 for 18k a few months back.

Frank Keane sold their 182 one for €27,995 this week. Reduced from €32,995

Shefwedfan · 31-08-2019 7:49pm

unkel wrote: »

Didn't realise you finally sold it! That was a very good price you got! What car you got now?

Guess

unkel · 31-08-2019 8:10pm

No idea, surely not the newer model eGolf?

Shefwedfan · 31-08-2019 8:14pm

unkel wrote: »

No idea, surely not the newer model eGolf?

Black Panter

:p:p:p

unkel · 31-08-2019 8:25pm

Eh?

Dempsey · 31-08-2019 8:38pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Hope your getting a big discount

é-Golf price down €4000 in Germany and UK

I'd be ringing dealer

Getting a used one, that first year depreciation is eye watering :pac:

Whatever I get wont have much of a resale value afterwards!

Shefwedfan · 31-08-2019 8:57pm

unkel wrote: »

Eh?

Black Panthar:p
71CrOo2Xt0L._UY560_.jpg

unkel · 31-08-2019 9:10pm

Where can I pick up the cigar?

Let me quess, you got €18k for your car as trade in for one of these executive models?

McGiver · 01-09-2019 1:51pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

charlieIRL wrote: »

Not a chance of getting a new one here for €30k! Believe me I’ve been trying, even a 191 from the UK is near €30 home.

I’ve the figures left st work but thing a standard one was €38 and the Executive was €43 after grants.

I've seen way under €30k

Only €250 to vrt this one

Under €25k all in with a small bit of haggling

Some car for that

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201903286376246?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2019&postcode=m52ty&sort=price-asc&page=1&price-from=500&make=VOLKSWAGEN&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

Lot of bang for the buck! But no reversing camera? Is that an extra?

charlieIRL · 01-09-2019 8:19pm

McGiver wrote: »

Lot of bang for the buck! But no reversing camera? Is that an extra?

Yes. Standard on the executive though

Shefwedfan · 01-09-2019 8:23pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

Yes. Standard on the executive though

I dont like the camera, prefer the beepy things!

charlieIRL · 01-09-2019 9:00pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont like the camera, prefer the beepy things!

I like the way the camera hides behind the VW badge!!

Shefwedfan · 01-09-2019 9:19pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

I like the way the camera hides behind the VW badge!!

That’s good alright

liamog · 02-09-2019 4:59am

The ID.3 is due to be fully revealed this week. Probably not too many surprises left.

Wonder how long it will take for VW IE to release price info?

https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/vw-id3-electric-car-unveiling/amp/

arch_stanton · 02-09-2019 7:05am

The reveal is on Monday next. I doubt we’ll see Irish prices until final orders open.

“On September 9th, starting from 8pm, you can experience this special event live. We will send you a link beforehand which will allow you to access the live stream online. If you want to see the ID.3 at the exhibition, you are welcome to visit us at the Volkswagen booth in Hall 3 from September 12th to 22nd.”

Mupchease · 02-09-2019 8:11am

charlieIRL wrote: »

I like the way the camera hides behind the VW badge!!

I didn’t think I’d like the camera but it’s brilliant and it being behind the badge is perfect for when It rains. I’m sure there is better reversing cameras but it’s the best I’ve seen so far.

02-09-2019 8:22pm

It's a pity VW decided to cap the charging power on their poor mans cars to 100 Kw for the basic battery and 125 Kw on their larger pack while retaining 150+ Kw for the wealthier folk. Seemingly VW are being "conservative" with charging power on the id.3.

It will be interesting to see how long it can sustain 100 Kw and how cold will effect it.

At least the good news is that it's got proper liquid thermal management but will VW heat the battery when cold ? this has a huge impact on DC charging power.

I'd like to see an option to preheat the battery for full charging power available to the driver whether that be on battery only or while plugged in, obviously this will impact the Kwh in the battery already but at least it would allow shortest time possible when charging.

MY i3 Rex lease is up next November and I had hoped there would be a reasonably priced EV with 150 Kw charging buy then, obviously there won't, I've actually no idea what I will get next, perhaps I will just keep the i3 another year or 2.

Lumen · 02-09-2019 8:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a pity VW decided to cap the charging power on their poor mans cars to 100 Kw for the basic battery and 125 Kw on their larger pack while retaining 150+ Kw for the wealthier folk. Seemingly VW are being "conservative" with charging power on the id.3.

Why do you think they are capping it?

Larger battery packs charge at a faster rate, in the aggregate.

Mike9832 · 02-09-2019 8:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a pity VW decided to cap the charging power on their poor mans cars to 100 Kw for the basic battery and 125 Kw on their larger pack while retaining 150+ Kw for the wealthier folk. Seemingly VW are being "conservative" with charging power on the id.3.

It will be interesting to see how long it can sustain 100 Kw and how cold will effect it.

At least the good news is that it's got proper liquid thermal management but will VW heat the battery when cold ? this has a huge impact on DC charging power.

I'd like to see an option to preheat the battery for full charging power available to the driver whether that be on battery only or while plugged in, obviously this will impact the Kwh in the battery already but at least it would allow shortest time possible when charging.

MY i3 Rex lease is up next November and I had hoped there would be a reasonably priced EV with 150 Kw charging buy then, obviously there won't, I've actually no idea what I will get next, perhaps I will just keep the i3 another year or 2.

2c is a good rate

It will probably do 0-80% in 30 mins in all varients

Drive 250km, charge 30 mins, drive 250km, charge 30 mins

Nothing wrong with that

Just price now

If you can get an extended warranty on your i3 I would keep it

It charges at 1.5c and rex is very handy

Can't see anything better coming out soon

KCross · 02-09-2019 8:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a pity VW decided to cap the charging power on their poor mans cars to 100 Kw for the basic battery and 125 Kw on their larger pack while retaining 150+ Kw for the wealthier folk. Seemingly VW are being "conservative" with charging power on the id.3.

Lumen wrote: »

Why do you think they are capping it?

Larger battery packs charge at a faster rate, in the aggregate.

I've seen several reports, including Bjorn Nyland recently, which show the entry level ID.3 being capped at 50kW charge rate, not 100kW.

The 1st edition will be 100kW and the range topper at 125kW.

The entry level model will be spec'd in a way to "make" you want to go for the more expensive mid range model.... its the VW way!

EDIT.... look at 2:40 in this video...

02-09-2019 9:22pm

Lumen wrote: »

Why do you think they are capping it?

Larger battery packs charge at a faster rate, in the aggregate.

Because I read somewhere the VW engineer actually said they were being conservative with the charging power.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1118974_heres-the-battery-pack-behind-vws-global-electric-vehicle-push

"Dr. Holger Manz, VW’s head of energy management and high-voltage systems, underscored that the brand is leaving the 150-kw and 350-kw charging power to the VW Group’s luxury and performance vehicles, keeping the price in focus, and being a bit conservative on fast charging, relative to what the pack could tolerate.

“We just didn’t want to go to the extremes here, because this would be the new people’s car,” Manz said.

We look forward to bringing more actual specs in coming months. With these vehicles poised to be the way Volkswagen makes good of its brand, post TDI, and shows the mainstream how to love EVs, this all-important power pack looks soundly on the right track."

02-09-2019 9:23pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

2c is a good rate

It will probably do 0-80% in 30 mins in all varients

Drive 250km, charge 30 mins, drive 250km, charge 30 mins

Nothing wrong with that

Just price now

If you can get an extended warranty on your i3 I would keep it

It charges at 1.5c and rex is very handy

Can't see anything better coming out soon

Indeed the Rex is amazing, absolutely especially considering the charging infrastructure at this time.

charlieIRL · 02-09-2019 9:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Indeed the Rex is amazing, absolutely especially considering the charging infrastructure at this time.

Have you it leased off BMW?

Shefwedfan · 02-09-2019 9:31pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a pity VW decided to cap the charging power on their poor mans cars to 100 Kw for the basic battery and 125 Kw on their larger pack while retaining 150+ Kw for the wealthier folk. Seemingly VW are being "conservative" with charging power on the id.3

For the majority of people the ID.3 is aimed at they won’t care about charging speed

Even with the eGolf 2 I don’t charge every night and a huge percentage of owners have it capped at 80% to combat battery degradation

99% of my cars life is going to be charged at home.....I haven’t even set up IONITY yet and no idea where my charge cards are

Mike9832 · 02-09-2019 9:34pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For the majority of people the ID.3 is aimed at they won’t care about charging speed

Even with the eGolf 2 I don’t charge every night and a huge percentage of owners have it capped at 80% to combat battery degradation

99% of my cars life is going to be charged at home.....I haven’t even set up IONITY yet and no idea where my charge cards are

Do you drive anywhere?

02-09-2019 9:35pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

Have you it leased off BMW?

PCP whatever lol.

02-09-2019 9:37pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For the majority of people the ID.3 is aimed at they won’t care about charging speed

Even with the eGolf 2 I don’t charge every night and a huge percentage of owners have it capped at 80% to combat battery degradation

99% of my cars life is going to be charged at home.....I haven’t even set up IONITY yet and no idea where my charge cards are

Yeah sure, the majority of charging is done at home but it's a bloody pain in the hole waiting to charge especially at busy chargers.

When you need to charge it would be nice to charge as fast as possible, and it's not nice when VW admit to keeping faster charging tech for the wealthier !

unkel · 02-09-2019 9:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

it's not nice when VW admit to keeping faster charging tech for the wealthier !

Another communist I encounter on this forum this evening

Bigger battery costs more money. If you have a bigger battery you can charge faster

Obviously VAG has not yet mastered to let their EVs safely charge at 3C, like Hyundai and Tesla have

Shefwedfan · 02-09-2019 9:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah sure, the majority of charging is done at home but it's a bloody pain in the hole waiting to charge especially at busy chargers.

When you need to charge it would be nice to charge as fast as possible, and it's not nice when VW admit to keeping faster charging tech for the wealthier !

So the new ID will do 300km...the EGolf 2 is even better than the v1 at higher speeds. So I would expect the ID to improve again

So let’s say you have the lovely Cork drive..280km.....really a 10-20 min top up and your sorted so 100kW should give you plenty in that time on way down/up....

Rest of the time on majority of people day to day the range is perfect

Some people will need more range and that’s why they will have bigger batteries but the majority will have plenty as is and will only require he odd IONITY top up

02-09-2019 9:49pm

unkel wrote: »

Another communist I encounter on this forum this evening

Bigger battery costs more money. If you have a bigger battery you can charge faster

Obviously VAG has not yet mastered to let their EVs safely charge at 3C, like Hyundai and Tesla have

Obviously they have if they say they're being conservative with charging power and they admitted keeping higher charging power for their more expensive cars.

A bigger battery as in more Kwh does not automatically allow faster charging, more Kwh of the same chemistry does.

unkel · 02-09-2019 10:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A bigger battery as in more Kwh does not automatically allow faster charging, more Kwh of the same chemistry does.

Do you not think the 3 packs for the ID.3 have the same chemistry?

03-09-2019 12:00am

unkel wrote: »

Do you not think the 3 packs for the ID.3 have the same chemistry?

I'm sure they do buy I was making the point that larger Kwh doesn't automatically mean it can take more charging power.

But, you wouldn't know what alterations to the chemistry are to be honest.

Lumen · 03-09-2019 6:12am

None of the established, profitable car manufacturers are going to sacrifice their margins or well established brand hierarchies for the sake of environmentalism.

On the upside, in a few years time everything will be RWD or AWD and Audis will not be fighting understeer. What a time to be alive!

jusmeig · 03-09-2019 7:36am

Lumen wrote: »

None of the established, profitable car manufacturers are going to sacrifice their margins or well established brand hierarchies for the sake of environmentalism.

Of course they wont, the idea is that they won't have much choice but to change. We can see this change in the extreme when Diesel and Petrol cars are banned from cities, this will obvious have an effect on their sales and force manufacturers to take a more aggressive stance themselves.

Big Oil is in the same situation. Most of their vast budgets still go to looking for and drilling oil from the most inaccessible places on earth, they put a sprinkle into wind/solar and lash up a few charge points (Well done BP, im looking at you).

Lumen · 03-09-2019 7:54am

jusmeig wrote: »

Of course they wont, the idea is that they won't have much choice but to change. We can see this change in the extreme when Diesel and Petrol cars are banned from cities, this will obvious have an effect on their sales and force manufacturers to take a more aggressive stance themselves.

Big Oil is in the same situation. Most of their vast budgets still go to looking for and drilling oil from the most inaccessible places on earth, they put a sprinkle into wind/solar and lash up a few charge points (Well done BP, im looking at you).

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was referring to maintaining brand and model hierarchies within EV tech rather than defending their fossil business.

arch_stanton · 04-09-2019 1:02pm

Some new info here with vague price references:
https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/stories/the-beginning-of-a-new-era-5304

04-09-2019 3:52pm

Entry level will cost less than 30 k if that's true and before subsidies that would be amazing for a 40 kWh car with 100 kWh charging !

And thermally managed battery .

Nissan needs top wake up but VW do not plan top sell the I'd.3 in north America at least not yet so Nissan will dominate those markets.

There's no easy in heel I'd buy a leaf at that rate , it makes for extremely poor value or it will I mean.

No doubt the basic will be traditional VW basic seats and steering wheel, exactly what the Irish market needs.

04-09-2019 3:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nissan needs top wake up but VW do not plan top sell the I'd.3 in north America at least not yet so Nissan will dominate those markets.

There's no easy in heel I'd buy a leaf at that rate , it makes for extremely poor value or it will I mean.

Nissan has "dominated" US markets by selling whopping 6000 units so far in 2019 vs. 81000 Model 3 so pretty much dead in the water anywhere but Europe.

04-09-2019 4:03pm

The model 3 is cheap in the u.s costs about 10 k more here due to our extortion taxes, not sure anyone would buy a leaf here at those prices either.

The I'd.3 should worry nissan a lot.

KCross · 04-09-2019 4:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The model 3 is cheap in the u.s costs about 10 k more here due to our extortion taxes, not sure anyone would buy a leaf here at those prices either.

The I'd.3 should worry nissan a lot.

Try to explain why they've decided to increase their prices then?

They dont seem worried to me.... either they know they are safe with the price increase or they're fools. Take your pick!

04-09-2019 4:19pm

KCross wrote: »

Try to explain why they've decided to increase their prices then?

They dont seem worried to me.... either they know they are safe with the price increase or they're fools. Take your pick!

Nissan are fools, they've made some bad decisions . At least bmw offered the 44 kw at very small increase for the i3.

Lack of thermally controlled battery probably did the most damage to us sales and yet they continue not to control the battery temperature.

It's as if Nissan wasn't the leaf top fall.

04-09-2019 4:27pm

Lumen wrote: »

On the upside, in a few years time everything will be RWD or AWD and Audis will not be fighting understeer. What a time to be alive!

BMW are going FWD ........

VW ID.3

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