Accidentally in calf heifers

20silkcut · 18-05-2016 5:57am #1

Planned on selling10 heifers this week got them scanned cause I had my suspicions all 10 were in calf due between end of June and October. Sired by a mediocre black FRX or a good square HEX who were castrated late.
Will they sell at a mart if sold as in calf heifers. Or are they untouchable now?

Willfarman · 18-05-2016 6:22am

How old are they and why type?

20silkcut · 18-05-2016 7:13am

7 AA and 3 HEX 2 years old

Bullocks · 18-05-2016 9:23am

20silkcut wrote: »

7 AA and 3 HEX 2 years old

Are they to old to abort ?

whelan2 · 18-05-2016 9:28am

Bullocks wrote: »

Are they to old to abort ?

Was thinking about that. The June ones would be anyway. Would the others put up much springing?

20silkcut · 18-05-2016 9:29am

Yes they are all second half of pregnancy some are a few weeks away from calving bar one that's only 4 and a half months gone

blue5000 · 18-05-2016 10:04am

Could you calve them and sell with calf at foot?

20silkcut · 18-05-2016 11:32am

blue5000 wrote: »

Could you calve them and sell with calf at foot?

Of course yes, the only problem being I never calved a cow before and am limited time wise with off farm work. I won't be able watch them as much as they might need.
The sire is not big or wide. And the heifers are 2 years old. Have to go buy a calving jack now and will read the instructions and look it up on YouTube etc.

WheatenBriar · 18-05-2016 11:53am

Jaysis a YouTube video :eek:
Have you calving facilities for them?
If you're that much of a green horn (No offence), my advice is to sell
Let your first loss be your last

You won't know or have the experience as to when they are within a few hours of calving,when to Jack them,what to do or even determine if they're coming wrong and you will lose some

J DEERE · 18-05-2016 12:11pm

Sell or advertise as Incalf heifers to a HE bull. Is the FRX a bad animal?

Bullocks · 18-05-2016 12:35pm

I wouldn't panic even if you don't have experience . If they're good strong heifers and the sire isn't too big you shouldn't have too much trouble . Forget about buying a Jack for them but maybe let the vet know your situation and I'm sure if they're having bother he will come out and pull the calf for you .
You will learn a lot by watching him in the moment really.
Do you have an experienced neighbour you can call on ?
If most of them calves ok you might do well selling them as a pair instead of as heifers in the mart .

TITANIUM. · 18-05-2016 12:58pm

20silkcut wrote: »

Of course yes, the only problem being I never calved a cow before and am limited time wise with off farm work. I won't be able watch them as much as they might need.
The sire is not big or wide. And the heifers are 2 years old. Have to go buy a calving jack now and will read the instructions and look it up on YouTube etc.

Do you mind me asking what part of the country your in? How much were you looking for these heifers?
It's sounds like calving shouldn't be a major issue but there's always one. And it's then when there calved that the problems start if you mishandle post natal process.
Surely there's neighbours around that could help out. Jesus if your anywhere near me I'd give you a dig out and show you the craic. Be careful around them anyway around calving time.

greysides · 18-05-2016 1:20pm

You never put a novice rider on a novice horse. If you took some to the mart and were happy with the price to sell them then you'd at least be lightening the load for yourself. It's not the end of the world if you have to calve them all yourself but it could be a very steep learning curve without some good guidance to steer you. Main thing is keep the heifers on the thin side. You can show them the love after they're calved.

20silkcut · 18-05-2016 3:32pm

That last post of mine was a bit dramatic. Of course I have plenty of neighbours around who I could get advice and help off. It was the vet who scanned them so he understands the situation I'm in and is usually quick to respond.
But definitely I have never calved a cow before. Vet told me to keep them on a bare paddock and move them closer to the shed when calving approaches. I have plenty of shed space for them.

kowtow · 18-05-2016 10:36pm

20silkcut wrote:

That last post of mine was a bit dramatic. Of course I have plenty of neighbours around who I could get advice and help off. It was the vet who scanned them so he understands the situation I'm in and is usually quick to respond. But definitely I have never calved a cow before. Vet told me to keep them on a bare paddock and move them closer to the shed when calving approaches. I have plenty of shed space for them.

Others will know much better than me but in your situation if I was determined to calve them I'd put up a solid pen with a headlock or better still a calving gate and a safe run in from the paddock.

You'll feel more confident even if you don't actually need to pull any in the end... also much easier post calving if you can restrain the dam.

The temptation to assist to quickly is difficult to overcome at first, knowing you can do so easily helps.

sako 85 · 19-05-2016 7:18am

20silkcut wrote: »

That last post of mine was a bit dramatic. Of course I have plenty of neighbours around who I could get advice and help off. It was the vet who scanned them so he understands the situation I'm in and is usually quick to respond.
But definitely I have never calved a cow before. Vet told me to keep them on a bare paddock and move them closer to the shed when calving approaches. I have plenty of shed space for them.

If i was you i'd keep them and hopefully its a good learning experience. You have shed space a neighbor to call and a Vet on hand, you'll be grand and might make a few pound.

patsy_mccabe · 19-05-2016 8:14am

If you don't have a calving gate, you can just use a rope halter and tie them up in a shed. Get a neighbour to help would be a must, I'd say. I've calved cows for my neighbours a good few times. It never bothered me having to do it. What goes around, comes around!

Willfarman · 19-05-2016 8:47am

Calving off may grass can be very hard and my advise is avoid all the hardship you can in life. Out to the mart with them.

Announce scanned calving month. And in calf to a Hereford bull. Don't say pedigree!

Kovu · 19-05-2016 10:00am

I'd be inclined to say keep them on tight grass and try them yourself and see how you get on with the first few animals. If things go tits up with them you can ship off the remainder in the mart.
Calving animals is a handy skill to have, you're never too late to learn.

A rope halter is fine if the animal is semi quiet, what works well is trying them behind a gate and swinging the gate back in against them. At two years old and with a non continental bull you shouldn't need to help them unless it's malpresented.

FeelTheBern · 19-05-2016 9:28pm

My advice would be to keep them on bare cover and chance them away. Most of them will calve and manage calf fine at that age. Next few months grand to be calving out - maybe give them pour on for flies to avoid summer mastitis. If you don't know if bulled by the FR or the HEX then very hard to sell them

Farrell · 19-05-2016 10:51pm

FeelTheBern wrote: »

My advice would be to keep them on bare cover and chance them away. Most of them will calve and manage calf fine at that age. Next few months grand to be calving out - maybe give them pour on for flies to avoid summer mastitis. If you don't know if bulled by the FR or the HEX then very hard to sell them

A handful of Rolled oats too

Bullocks · 20-05-2016 8:34pm

I was thinking there aswell that if you do decide to calf them you would be aswell order tags from Mulinahone and maybe set up an account with a lab to get them BVD tested .
It would be aswell to have this organised in advance in case you want to sell soon after calving

whelan2 · 20-05-2016 8:36pm

Bullocks wrote: »

I was thinking there aswell that if you do decide to calf them you would be aswell order tags from Mulinahone and maybe set up an account with a lab to get them BVD tested .
It would be aswell to have this organised in advance in case you want to sell soon after calving

Good idea, can take up to 21 days to get tags

Miname · 20-05-2016 8:42pm

Announce scanned calving month. And in calf to a Hereford bull. Don't say pedigree!

That's a great way to try and get yourself into hardship and blacken your name. It's wrong. I'd a springer I bought supposed to be in calf to a limo that calved down a runt fr bull calf. Regardless I'm out of pocket .

Kovu · 20-05-2016 8:48pm

Miname wrote: »

That's a great way to try and get yourself into hardship and blacken your name. It's wrong. I'd a springer I bought supposed to be in calf to a limo that calved down a runt fr bull calf. Regardless I'm out of pocket .

When I was in the marts I'd often see springers sold in calf to either a lm/ch. Covering your bases with two breeds if a weaning got her.

Willfarman · 20-05-2016 9:59pm

Miname wrote: »

That's a great way to try and get yourself into hardship and blacken your name. It's wrong. I'd a springer I bought supposed to be in calf to a limo that calved down a runt fr bull calf. Regardless I'm out of pocket .

Black lim heifers there wouldn't be much difference between a non pedigree Hereford bull and Friesian in the progeny.

Miname · 20-05-2016 10:09pm

Willfarman wrote: »

Black lim heifers there wouldn't be much difference between a non pedigree Hereford bull and Friesian in the progeny.

Would there be 100-150 value in the calf, it would be a serious difference, another way to look at it is it's just a cheeky bit of fooling someone or you could even call it basic lying and stealing from another farmer.

mf240 · 20-05-2016 10:16pm

Be honest if your selling them. The kind of Man that would buy them will have a low threshold for bull****e.

Plenty of lads would take a gamble on them if the money was right.

Willfarman · 21-05-2016 4:51am

Miname wrote: »

Would there be 100-150 value in the calf, it would be a serious difference, another way to look at it is it's just a cheeky bit of fooling someone or you could even call it basic lying and stealing from another farmer.

The buyers for chancy animals like these wouldn't be too offended by this kind of thing in my experience anyway!
The differ in calf value is theoretical because the first thing you need is a live calf safe and sound.

Sheep breeder · 21-05-2016 7:39am

From reading this it seems that these will be low value animals,if you wait and calve them they will be poor sellers with the calf at foot as the calf will be poor quality and any colour under the sun, as they say on Limerick a speak easy calf,
The best thing would be as one person has said sell and take the first loss and let it be the only one.
To go down the road of calving them, you have work, calving ,possible loss of cow or calf, tagging and registering,long calving period for 10 animals of 4 to 5 months,and the end a possible poor unit to sell,
When the calf is inside you cannot see him and when beside the heifer you cannot hide what what they look like or breed.

20silkcut · 21-05-2016 2:49pm

I have decided to keep the one that's on the point of calving and sell the rest.
I have the sire isolated to a very young yearling FRX ( he was 6 months when he bulled them) he looks like either an Angus or lim. His card says FRX . Reasonably square animal more than likely these calves will be fully black. I don't have the time to calve these myself.

Water John · 21-05-2016 3:24pm

Starting from scratch you would have a had a big learning curve and be stressed by it as well as your set up not being equipped and you away a lot.
Fair honest judgement you have made.
Be careful of any calving suckler, esp heifer. Best of luck.

Jaysus Christ · 21-05-2016 4:39pm

First thing would be to feed them only hay and if you can get rolled oats all the better. Oats are great. Feed a lot of it myself.

And plenty of pre Calver minerals whether you sell them or not.

Base price · 21-05-2016 10:26pm

20silkcut wrote: »

I have decided to keep the one that's on the point of calving and sell the rest.
I have the sire isolated to a very young yearling FRX ( he was 6 months when he bulled them) he looks like either an Angus or lim. His card says FRX . Reasonably square animal more than likely these calves will be fully black. I don't have the time to calve these myself.

In my experience FRx means the bull is probably out of a Jersey/Norwegian Red/Brown Swiss or other dairy breed cow or cross that is not Friesian. Who puts a Friesian bull on a Angus or Limousin cow.
Any pic of the offending bull?

Water John · 21-05-2016 10:56pm

Base, I'd say he's now a bullock.

Base price · 21-05-2016 11:29pm

Water John wrote: »

Base, I'd say he's now a bullock.

A picture is worth a thousand words

20silkcut · 22-05-2016 12:04am

Was going to put him up earlier here he is the impregnator. The one with the copper tinge could do with a dose

Kovu · 22-05-2016 12:14am

Not so bad, looks like there's some angus in him. No polly head on him no?

20silkcut · 22-05-2016 12:43am

He was dehorned the friesian came out in him. He is white around the navel.

RightTurnClyde · 22-05-2016 6:12am

20silkcut wrote: »

Was going to put him up earlier here he is the impregnator. The one with the copper tinge could do with a dose

The copper tinge...that's the jersey breaking out in him

:)

Willfarman · 22-05-2016 9:43am

Purebred limousine if I ever saw one!!

Wouldn't be 5 star now, but I'd announce him as a strong 4.

Milked out · 22-05-2016 9:50am

Stick.the tag no. In to icbf and it'll give u the breed breakdown

20silkcut · 22-05-2016 10:01am

Would it be an idea to sell him off with the heifers and have him in the sales ring with them.

He is a good bit lighter than them though.

Never wrestle with pigs · 22-05-2016 10:25am

No definetly not. But I wouldn't think you'll have any issues with calving.

kowtow · 22-05-2016 10:33am

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

The copper tinge...that's the jersey breaking out in him :)

*puts away worm dose and fetches gun*

Jb1989 · 16-11-2024 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057598904/accidentally-in-calf-heifers

How did you fair out with these heifers out of curiosity?

Old Post but your still active here so all good.

older by the day · 17-11-2024 1:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/99793515#Comment_99793515

Maybe put them on donedeal as is. A pile of people short of cattle, older farmers like to keep a few cows and calves on the land and are not worried about DBI or cvb or back breeding. Just making up numbers for the payments.

Put up a few pictures, a few lads here might be interested. Or someone might know what price to expect. Every animal is valuable these days. Two year old heifers are still worth a lot of money

limo_100 · 17-11-2024 2:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122848426#Comment_122848426

I’d say them heifers are long calved at this stage. I’d even go as far to say there’s prob a majority of them culled as the op is 8years ago. But am interested to see what happened although not sure @20silkcut is still posting