Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

In the event of united Ireland could DUP attract a significant vote in the Republic / 26 Counties ?

1789101113»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If you are reduced to thanks analysis to obtain the views of a poster, you are not really debating what is said.

    There are many reasons for thanking a post, only one of which is that you agree 100% with what the poster is saying.

    Debate the difference between heritage and living culture, and the ability to own your own culture without having it imposed on you by nativist nationalistic good republicans and I will engage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can own as many bits of the culture you want.

    You cannot disown the culture of the place you live in though. We are a multi-faceted culture, always were and always will be. When you are dead and gone the things you didn't like or indeed liked will still be going on and a part of the an ever changing cultural life.
    Like every other country in the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Irish History


    Would you ever stop posting complete nonsense about a subject you clearly know nothing about?

    The salient point as far as we Irish are concerned, is that we Irish are Gaels, and our country is named in our stead - we native Irish are a distinct people.

    Our Gaelic civilisation, our Gaelic political and social order, our Gaelic culture originated/evolved in Ireland during prehistoric times - and still dominates to this day, despite all the foreign interference.

    Our native Gaelic language evolved in Ireland EXCLUSIVELY from insular Celtic in the late first millennium BC and early first millennium A.D.

    Ireland is the land of us native Gaels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Irish History


    It doesn't matter whether you reject it or not.

    See my posts on this thread and learn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Irish History


    Post edited by Irish History on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Irish History


    That didn't stop you thieving foreign ethnic British trying to impose your foreign cultural imperialism on us native Irish in our own native country, Ireland.

    And just so you know - we native Irish know of no spectacle so disgusting as when you foreign ethnic British, given your demonic illegal history in our country, throw one of your hypocritical fits of morality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭Suckler


    If you are reduced to thanks analysis to obtain the views of a poster, you are not really debating what is said.

    Except (again) that's untrue. I've responded to your points in detail. You, on the other hand, have still not supported your original argument that you were "certain" of. You thanks analysis was just another string to your bow; like I said - irreverent point scoring against one poster; content be damned.

    There are many reasons for thanking a post, only one of which is that you agree 100% with what the poster is saying.

    Unless you are thanking posts you disagree with for some unknown reason; supporting the message and/or content is in itself agreeing with the content of that post. To try to refute or excuse this is ridiculous.

    Debate the difference between heritage and living culture, and the ability to own your own culture without having it imposed on you by nativist nationalistic good republicans and I will engage.

    I've done so. You just are intent on continuously moving the goal posts.

    E.g. - I simply mentioned the errors in our past yet you were selective enough to pick up on specific instances whereby 'error' would be too soft a term…..yet you never seem to want to reflect the same specificity to the acts committed upon Ireland by The British Empire; in fact are quite happy to gloss over them however absurd the recollection of history has been. There's no credibility to it being a reasoned discussion from you.

    imposed on you by nativist nationalistic good republicans and I will engage.

    And, if you'd looked, I did actually address this wherein it was being 'imposed on you'…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭Suckler


    The bladder is an organ.

    Far from meaningless, it's quite important.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Irish History




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Charming. When you speak like that to a relatively neutral Irish person like blanch152, we can only guess how welcome you would make the DUP or indeed people who have a British background - or not as Irish as you like them to be - in to a U.I.

    It reminds me of Billy Fox, the FG politician murdered by the IRA in Co. Monaghan. Before that he was insulted with similar anti-British smears (eg that he was ex B-specials, which was totally untrue) in the Dail by a Few FF TDs whio were forced to apologise. Billy Fox was only a very soft Republican, not an IRA sympathiser. And the OP in his / her innocence thought a hypothetical UI would be a safe place for a DUP politician to stand! How absurd and naive.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    (1) I am Irish

    (2) We Irish gave up our language when the English came

    (3) We Irish continue to adopt the English culture, whether it is the Premier League or soap operas.

    (4) Your posts are now explicitly racist rather than the inherent implicit racism that marred your previous posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So the English’ have a culture but ours is a là carte and only what an individual accepts?

    Really been a revealing conversation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That is a strange interpretation and not what I meant in a quick response. If you want to address the detailed posts, please feel free to do so.

    My point is that culture isn't homogenised and imposed, it is freely chosen and individual. Many Irish people adopt aspects of many cultures. For example, I know of many Eastern Europeans living in Ireland, Irish citizens, cheer on the Irish soccer team, but still celebrate Christmas on 24th December.

    You can't tell Irish people that follow Liverpool and Coronation Street that they are not really Irish, even though by your definition they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'm not the person who ridicules those who follow English teams nor those who enjoy aspects of other cultures or tells them they aren't Irish.

    That openness is a part of 'our culture' and always has been back as far as you want to go. Again nobody is 'imposing' a thing on you, you are free to like/dislike whatever aspect of our culture that you want to.

    You exclude - i.e Wolfe Tones/Orange marches from your cultural identity, I don't. That's the difference. You are exclusionary, I'm inclusive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Other Republicans like "Irish History" only a few posts ago wrote "Ireland is the land of us native Gaels." He wrote for example, to a relatively middle of the road poster from south of the border:

    In my humble opinion You should be telling posters like Irish history they are exclusionary, not relativey middle of the road, neutral posters like Blanch. You, being a typical Republican demonise middle of the road people …..now what does that remind anyone of? You and "Irish History" should be ashamed of yourselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Just as you, blanch and I are responsible for what they post, so too is Irish History. If he/she had engaged me on anything I posted he/she would have been answered. Blanch and you engage with my posts, therefore I have responded.

    You should be able to tell that somebody who includes all aspects of cultural activity here and influences from outside (British and American and other European) as a part of 'our culture' would not subscribe to 'Irish History's' views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There is no "our culture", that is where we disagree.

    There is no single national culture. Lots of cultural aspects of this island are not shared by everyone living here, in fact, I struggle to think of a single cultural aspect shared by everyone on this island.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So totally wrong.

    Everything practiced culturally is a part of 'our' collective culture as long as it isn't illegal or contrary to human rights.

    There is nothing to stop a governing party adopting your exclusionary a lá carte attitude (including SF btw) and that is wholly wrong.

    Who said or claimed that all cultural aspects need to be 'shared'? That's pure rubbish from the get go and happens nowhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If cultural aspects are not shared, then we don't have a shared culture. That is exactly what I have been saying, and you now seem to agree.

    If I am wrong, perhaps you can list some aspects of our shared culture that are shared by all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No culture anywhere EVER 'shared' all aspects. It's a completely moot point therefore concocted in your ongoing attempts to exclude.





  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Anything shared by 90% of us?

    If you can't identify even a single cultural thing shared by all of us, then the only conclusion is that we don't have a shared culture. It is as simple as that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Morris Dancing isn't 'shared' by everyone in England - is it a part of English culture…of course it is.

    You are talking absolute nonsense now tbh.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: right you two should agree to disagree at this point and move on!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,575 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The notion of "native Gaels" is nonsensical anyway. The Vikings, Normans, etc etc who came over here and settled weren't sterile!

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://sluggerotoole.com/2024/12/02/irish-unity-a-dead-duck-for-the-foreseeable-future/

    First analysis of the outcome of the election in terms of a united Ireland.

    "The predictions of SF and a quorum of their more breathless supporters within the commentariat that a McDonald ministry would immediately lead to a border poll and a national debate are now looking rather silly. Far from being inevitable, the issue of Irish unity is now a dead duck. When we look into the future, which looks like the UK government seeking rapprochement with Europe against a backdrop of a global recession combined with political instability within major Western countries including the United States, I struggle to see an opportunity for reunification to be reintroduced to the agenda for the foreseeable future."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 157 ✭✭Mannesmann




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The writer of the article is studiously ignoring the data, obviously.
    There is now consistent support for referendums on both sides of the border coupled with a rise in support for a UI in NI.
    Support for a UI remains stable in the south with 64% favouring Unity. Only 17% would vote against.

    In Northern Ireland, however, there have been notable changes in voting intentions in a future referendum.

    In 2022 the ARINS/Irish Times survey found 27 per cent in favour of unity in the North. In 2023 the figure was 30 per cent. In our latest 2024 survey 34 per cent indicate support for unity.

    These are just three data points, but they suggest an increasing trend of support.

    Consider the margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The increase between the 2022 estimate and the 2024 estimate is statistically significant.

    All achieved without an Irish government plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    quoting sluggerotoole.com - jaysus. even more 'reliable' than the Indo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,575 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    As already stated it's an opinion piece, it's OK to disagree.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,575 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    @FrancieBrady there's a large element of "mom's apple pie" in those polls.

    Of course a lot of people are in favour of a united Ireland - in the abstract.

    Once things start becoming clearer about what they will have to give up to get it, what it will cost them, and what security risks it will entail then we'll start to see how much real support there is.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We can decide on that once there is a plan in place for what a UI looks like.

    What is beyond doubt is that majorities want to see the proposals - majorities in both jurisdictions want a referendum, if there is a referendum there will be proposals/plans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Article in the Sunday Times at the weekend, quoting a Department of Social Protection report that integration of the social welfare systems will cost €22bn per year in the event of a united Ireland.

    Various cheaper alternatives would require cuts in rates for some people.

    It is interesting that this work has been done. Hopefully, it will be published so people will get a sense of the increased taxation that a united Ireland would bring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://sluggerotoole.com/2025/02/24/can-we-see-a-direction-of-travel-from-polling-on-remaining-or-reunifying/

    Interesting analysis of the polling data.

    Safe to say we ain't seeing a border poll anytime soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Varadkar doubling down on his views.
    There are many including myself, who have said there is a change in attitude happening and this is a manifestation of it.
    There will be a phase of denying no doubt but the momentum continues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Soft opinion pieces from sympathetic voices are one thing, the harsh realities of the opinion polls not moving and papers that demonstrate a yearly €22bn cost of integrating social welfare say another.

    Developments in the North don't help.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2025/0303/1499876-ukraine-missiles-belfast/

    Here is MON once again failing in her own objective of being a First Minister for All. The jobs created have been welcomed by local politicians who just happen to be of the Unionist tradition but MON couldn't help herself. That is on top of her incredibly small-minded decision to boycott the US.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I guess some people don't subscribe to jobs at any cost to your principles.

    If you are anti war or neutral, then be that.
    Being a First Minister For All' does not mean being dishonest.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I guess some people don't subscribe to jobs at any cost to your principles.

    While nobody wants munitions factories, it currently is a necessary evil for them to be made given the ongoing attack from Russia.

    A £1.6 Bn deal boosting employment in NI should be welcomed despite the end product which we hope won't be necessary but know that it will be.

    O'Neill's comments that the international community "should always be to work towards negotiation and peace settlements" shows a rather naive perspective on what is happening. If Ukraine is defensively weak, does she really think that Putin will stop his attack to hold peace discussions?

    If you are anti war or neutral, then be that.
    Being a First Minister For All' does not mean being dishonest.

    Does being neutral mean supporting and glorifying terrorists?
    Will MON, as a "First Minister For All" glorify and support Loyalist terrorists?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Contrast this stance to a Green stance on LNG plants? Should we not welcome the employment and benefits of an LNG plant? Is it 'a necessary evil'?

    I don't necessarily agree with her position or the Green one, but they have a right to express their views.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again, MoN and a large part of who she represents do not see those they remember as 'terrorists' as Gavin Robinson and those he represents don't see the BA and Loyalists as 'terrorists' or Michael Martin and who he represents don't see those who fought for our freedom as 'terrorists'. They all terrorised people here at various times.

    Sooner or later the conversation on 'how do you allow people to commemorate their dead' has to be and will be had.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Contrast this stance to a Green stance on LNG plants? Should we not welcome the employment and benefits of an LNG plant? Is it 'a necessary evil'?

    I don't necessarily agree with her position or the Green one, but they have a right to express their views.

    This is just Whataboutery.
    MON is the First Minister representing the entire electorate of NI. Her primary focus should be on that office and not as the leader of SF in NI.

    She either welcomes investment & jobs in NI, despite the purpose of the end product or else she is displaying an inability to do the job.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again, MoN and a large part of who she represents do not see those they remember as 'terrorists' as Gavin Robinson and those he represents don't see the BA and Loyalists as 'terrorists' or Michael Martin and who he represents don't see those who fought for our freedom as 'terrorists'. They all terrorised people here at various times.

    Sooner or later the conversation on 'how do you allow people to commemorate their dead' has to be and will be had.

    Robinson & Martin are not the First Minister celebrating terrorists whose victims are still suffering from the acts of those terrorists. Again you are just deflecting from MON's inability to be an impartial leader or one who can empathise with the victims and their ongoing suffering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She hasn't blocked the jobs. She has given an opinion on the jobs and what is being produced. Every other leader in the free world 'gives their opinion' including her partner in office, who is doing and saying what she believes is the right thing. Same as any other party leader will do on their core principles. That is why I mentioned the Greens, it is not whataboutery to say that. It's a statement of actual fact.

    Robinson & Martin are not the First Minister celebrating terrorists whose victims are still suffering from the acts of those terrorists. Again you are just deflecting from MON's inability to be an impartial leader or one who can empathise with the victims and their ongoing suffering.

    Robinson and his predecessors have not even owned up to their party's involvement in 'terror' and militant organisations, does not call out similar memorials in his own community and of course celebrates the BA every single year. All of whom created 'victims' too. FF and FG had no issues celebrating those who terrorised and killed when victims were still alive and suffering. That is what happens after all major conflicts and wars.

    The 'FM for all' is an attempt to begin healing some of that divide, and has been partially successful, it is not and never was going to be a 'capitulation' to viewing things through a Unionist or British lens.

    It's still a divided society, and as one, still has much work to be done. Part of that is getting to a place where both sides can remember with respect and empathy.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    She hasn't blocked the jobs. She has given an opinion on the jobs and what is being produced. Every other leader in the free world 'gives their opinion' including her partner in office, who is doing and saying what she believes is the right thing. Same as any other party leader will do on their core principles. That is why I mentioned the Greens, it is not whataboutery to say that. It's a statement of actual fact.

    I didn't say or suggest that she blocked the jobs - another typo Francie?
    I commented on how she did not celebrate inward investment into NI and how this would help employment in NI - which is part of her job as First Minister. She is welcome to have her personal opinion but this should not be the formal anouncement as First Mnister.

    Robinson and his predecessors have not even owned up to their party's involvement in 'terror' and militant organisations, does not call out similar memorials in his own community and of course celebrates the BA every single year. All of whom created 'victims' too. FF and FG had no issues celebrating those who terrorised and killed when victims were still alive and suffering. That is what happens after all major conflicts and wars.

    Again with the whataboutery - we're not talking about Robinson because he is not the FM!

    MON wants to take a stand against the US turning its back on Ukraine but it is clear that she does not want Ukraine to get help from Europe if it means that the defence mechanisms are manufactured in NI.
    She is happy to celebrate her war against the British. She is just against every other war?
    She is a hypocrite and yet again showing that she is unfit for the role as FM.

    The 'FM for all' is an attempt to begin healing some of that divide, and has been partially successful, it is not and never was going to be a 'capitulation' to viewing things through a Unionist or British lens.

    It's still a divided society, and as one, still has much work to be done. Part of that is getting to a place where both sides can remember with respect and empathy.

    It will remain divided if the FM (and DFM) celebrate terrorism and the terrorist thugs behind it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    which is part of her job as First Minister.

    Where does it say this in her job description? This is again signs that you don't fully understand what the NI Assembly/Executive is, it is not an autonomous 'government' like we have. These jobs have not come as a result of what a 'government' of NI wanted. They have come because of something the actual government of the UK wants. She gave her opinion on that, as Little-Pengelly will give her opinion on i.e. the Westminster imposed Protocol etc

    Again with the whataboutery - we're not talking about Robinson because he is not the FM!

    Ok, apply the same comment to ELP, the deputy FM.

    MON wants to take a stand against the US turning its back on Ukraine

    SF are making a stand against Trumps intentions for Gaza.

    but it is clear that she does not want Ukraine to get help from Europe if it means that the defence mechanisms are manufactured in NI.
    She is happy to celebrate her war against the British. She is just against every other war?
    She is a hypocrite and yet again showing that she is unfit for the role as FM.

    She said:

     the focus of the international community "should always be to work towards negotiation and peace settlements".

    She represents a party and a community that has been able to do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The Greens never claimed to be a First Minister for All or to represent anything other than their own agenda. They are therefore not hypocritical.

    It is by her own words and her words alone that MON is being judged. She put the idea out there of being a First Minister for All. Clearly, she didn't mean it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A 'FM for all' includes speaking for her own community which is a part of that 'all'.
    A 'deputy FM for all' would accept that and speak for her part of the 'all'.
    Nobody is issuing a block or a decree or a petition of concern on this. The Assembly is a place for opinions/views to be expressed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,590 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No, it doesn't include speaking for one community. There are plenty of other SF Ministers to do that.

    Don't be looking at or whatabouting the DFM. The claim to be a "First Minister for All" is a claim that came from the mouth of MON. I didn't believe it at the time, neither did most observers in the South, and we are just pointing that out now.

    She is hoisted by her own petard and no pointing at others will change that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,302 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I guess you were not listening when she defined what she meant by a FM for all.
    She is expressing an opinion as all party leaders do in the Assembly. Those who think

    the focus of the international community "should always be to work towards negotiation and peace settlements".

    do not just come from 'one' community. they come form all across society in NI, Nationalist, Unionist and neither, just as they do here.

    Not for the first time, you see this as a slight on the Unionist community, the fear of offending the community you believe must not be offended strikes deep in the partitionist heart.

    What O'Neill has gone out of her way to do in reaching out to that 'community' in other ways is second to none in NI political life. But of course you don't have the charity to see that.



Advertisement