Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

MMA v Boxing!

  • 25-11-2024 01:46AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭


    Just wanted to put this out there, as I hear it alot. People saying stuff like a boxer wins in a boxing match, but an MMA fighter wins in any rules or a "street fight". Like people saying McGregor would beat Mayweather in the octagon etc. I've done boxing for a few years, and dabbled in other martial arts and this always amuses me.

    Boxing is called the sweet science for a reason. It's in effect, the "natural reaction" of a human, in it's purest form. It's to punch. This sounds childish but bear with me. If two people are drunk after a night out and get in a row outside the chipper, one does boxing and one does MMA, and they go for each other, they throw a punch, even the MMA fighter. It's the innate human reaction. Unless in an octagon, your not stepping back and calculating the situation.

    There seems to be this idea, that if a UFC star fought a top boxer, the boxer loses, simply because the MMA fighter is more experienced and well rounded in other fields, and can do other things than box. This is the crux though, a boxer at the highest level, "should" have such a speed difference, that the minute an MMA fighter opens up in any sense, gets knocked out.

    Even if thats accepted, but someone says, well if the boxer doesnt get that knockout he's in trouble. Why? Cause he'll be "taken down". With several months notice, how hard is it for a boxer to learn how to stop a take down? If he becomes proficient, the boxer is still at a huge advantage. An MMA fighter is a jack of all trades in a sense, and at the start of every fight, are on their feet trading punches. Any boxer worth their salt knocks them out imo.

    It's just something you read alot. A boxer wins in a boxing ring, but in trouble against an MMA fighter in any other situation. I've sat in gyms and watched both train, and the speed of a top boxer is frightening. People say an MMA fighter will take the boxer down, but the point is, if the boxer can't knock him out the minute he opens up, he's not much of a boxer imo. A top pugilist, is one of the most skilled talents imo, nearly an art form, hence its called the sweet science.

    As someone with no skin in the game, but often trained and sat in gyms watching others train with interest, I laugh at this idea that someone who does MMA will always win against a boxer, and you see it said all the time. The difference in speed and skill is actually scary between and boxer and MMA fighter. With an MMA fighter also starting on his feet, the gulf in skill and speed between a boxer and MMA fighter is too great, for an MMA fighter to have any chance.

    And yes its happened MMA fighters have beaten boxers even in boxing, but a truely world class boxer is a different story imo. Watching MMA fighters practice grappling, boxing and this and that, is actually embarrassing, when you then sit and watch the boxer train, the sheer difference.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,010 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    Sounds like you are comparing a top level boxer with a mediocre MMA fighter.

    How do you think Mayweather (best ever boxer in his weight class) v McGregor (world champion MMA, maybe top 5 in his weight class ever, but not elite in terms of take-downs/submissions) would get on in a street fight or in the octagon?

    If you think Floyd would knock him out before McGregor would take him down and submit him, I would suggest you are mistaken. And I think Floyd would be far too clever to ever put himself in an octagon with an MMA fighter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,078 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Strange thread to think of and type up at 01:46

    Kind of topic you’d have seen back in 2007



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Someone with about 6 months mma experience could beat a top boxer imo. In 6 months training you would have learned to take an opponent down. Once it's on the ground the mma fighter has the advantage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,259 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I assume that this is a troll post. As no way you put that much thought into a scenario that was tested and solved pretty conclusively. But for the lols.

    Boxing is called the sweet science for a reason. It's in effect, the "natural reaction" of a human, in it's purest form. It's to punch. This sounds childish but bear with me. If two people are drunk after a night out and get in a row outside the chipper, one does boxing and one does MMA, and they go for each other, they throw a punch, even the MMA fighter. It's the innate human reaction. Unless in an octagon, your not stepping back and calculating the situation.

    What does the label the "sweet science" have to do with anything you've said.

    And throwing a punch is less of a natural reaction that grappling and wrestling. Wrestling is the oldest form of fighting, animals wrestles, baby wrestling, and when two guys throw punches outside the chipper, they far more often end up doing some form of sloppy wresting rather than clean boxing.

    There seems to be this idea, that if a UFC star fought a top boxer, the boxer loses, simply because the MMA fighter is more experienced and well rounded in other fields, and can do other things than box. This is the crux though, a boxer at the highest level, "should" have such a speed difference, that the minute an MMA fighter opens up in any sense, gets knocked out.

    If the MMA fighter trys to box the boxer sure. But he isn't going to. The MMA fighter knows exactly where the boxer is inexperience. The boxer has never checked a kick. Never defended a takedown. It's literally over as soon as the mma decides to do anytihng other than box.

    Even if thats accepted, but someone says, well if the boxer doesnt get that knockout he's in trouble. Why? Cause he'll be "taken down". With several months notice, how hard is it for a boxer to learn how to stop a take down? If he becomes proficient, the boxer is still at a huge advantage. An MMA fighter is a jack of all trades in a sense, and at the start of every fight, are on their feet trading punches. Any boxer worth their salt knocks them out imo.

    lol.


    How hard is it for a boxer to learn how to stop a take down? Extremely difficult. At the top you are looking to an olympic level of wrestling. That took 10 years+ to achieve. Nobody is getting there in months.

    They are not trading punches at the start of a fight.

    As someone with no skin in the game, but often trained and sat in gyms watching others train with interest, I laugh at this idea that someone who does MMA will always win against a boxer, and you see it said all the time. The difference in speed and skill is actually scary between and boxer and MMA fighter. With an MMA fighter also starting on his feet, the gulf in skill and speed between a boxer and MMA fighter is too great, for an MMA fighter to have any chance.

    You may have seen boxers with speed. But you need to watch wrestlers a bit more closely.

    And yes its happened MMA fighters have beaten boxers even in boxing, but a truely world class boxer is a different story imo. Watching MMA fighters practice grappling, boxing and this and that, is actually embarrassing, when you then sit and watch the boxer train, the sheer difference.

    The sheer different is the boxer is training boxing not mma or takedowns.

    What is you definition of world class? A world champion? A multiple time work champion? like say 3 division champion James Toney. lololol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    I agree, Mayweather would lose, he's a coward. Would actually be scared. But just used his name, as at the time he fought McGregor, the idea was generally put out there that an MMA fighter always beats a boxer in any scenario outside a boxing ring



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    There's a fallacy in your argument. You laugh when I say how hard is it for a "boxer to stop a takedown", coming up against a lifelong wrestling expert. Fair enough. But as you well know, the argument was more directed at those who laugh at the idea a top boxer couldn't take an MMA fighter outside the ring. A boxer wouldn't need 10 years of training or experience, to stop a takedown from an MMA fighter, compared to a lifelong wrestler. An MMA fighter is a jack of all trades, and far weaker in an individual field than a boxer or wrestler in that specific field.

    Your premise isn't actually disputing what I'm saying in regards to an MMA fighter, and you've gone down more the road, of pitting one against an experienced wrestler. So ye I agree, against a top wrestler, the boxer will struggle more. But I don't think we've ever really seen a good example of a top boxer and wrestler face off, where it wasn't a novelty act and the boxer was hesitant. It probably does end in a stalemate, with the boxer keeping such distace. And with the wrestler starting and staying so low, it's a blurred area for whats a legal punch from a boxer.

    I'm aware of the earliest forms of known combat and where they arise, still no expert mind, but I'd still dispute anything other than a punch is not the purest form of a "natural reaction". It is if we're being honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ledwithhedwith


    you are completly and utterly wrong and I’m a much bigger fan of boxing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    The greatest heavyweight right now Usyk is getting absolutely Rag dolled by either John Jones or Tom Aspinal thats just a fact!

    1 leg kick, its done!

    Never mind a takedown whenever they feel like it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 978 ✭✭✭taxAHcruel


    What made me smile was the "how hard is it for a boxer to learn to stop a take down". So you want your boxer to learn something they teach in a Grappling/MMA gym?

    So basically the thesis of the thread can be distilled to: "A boxer should be able to beat an MMA practitioner - if the boxer becomes an MMA practitioner" :) Hilarious stuff really :)

    As for the punch being the most natural human thing in a street/bar fight. That adds to my smile. I've been in and been privy to more such fights than I would like. My natural reaction is to retreat/run. That's the only way you really "win" a pointless fight. But it's not always possible to retreat.

    YYMV of course OP. But in not one of those fights EVER did it go from non-fighting to punching. There was always the posturing, pushing, shoving and grabbing first. In Humans that seems to be the first and most "natural reaction" as you put it.

    Even in the animal world posturing and circling and threatening is very often the preferred starting point because actual combat comes with too much risk. Even the victor in nature can sustain injuries in victory that are costly or terminal. Humans and animals alike often try to win the fight before it even starts. That's a wise and natural aspect of nature that is more natural than any punch.

    Which serves me and my training well because no fight I have ever been in got as far as the first punch. The moment the other guy laid a hand or two to push or grab - he had given me complete control. Where he blinked and found himself next was always sudden and debilitating.

    But forums are always punctuated with keyboard warriors telling you of their one punch knock outs, spinning kicks and other John Wick woo :) Likely having never been in a fight themselves ever. Lucky them to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,259 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    There's a fallacy in your argument.

    If you say that you have to point out the fallacy. Otherwise its kinda meaningless.

    A boxer wouldn't need 10 years of training or experience, to stop a takedown from an MMA fighter, compared to a lifelong wrestler. An MMA fighter is a jack of all trades, and far weaker in an individual field than a boxer or wrestler in that specific field.

    Not needing 10 years doesn't equal only needing a few months. The MMA fighter still has years of experience in that field.
    Top MMA fighters are former elite wrestlers. Among the best in the world, certainly better than the average lifelong wrestler.

    On a similar note, the average pro boxer is a journeyman, not really anything special.

    Your premise isn't actually disputing what I'm saying in regards to an MMA fighter, and you've gone down more the road, of pitting one against an experienced wrestler. So ye I agree, against a top wrestler, the boxer will struggle more.

    You fail to realise that many MMA fighters are experience wrestlers. And you don't need to be an Olympic or D1 level to takedown a random boxer. The boxer is so clueless, that a random hobbyist would succeed - and this happen in local gyms all the time. Boxer tries MMA, gets taken down with ease and manhandled. We don't have to speculate, anyone with experience has seen this.

    But I don't think we've ever really seen a good example of a top boxer and wrestler face off, where it wasn't a novelty act and the boxer was hesitant. It probably does end in a stalemate, with the boxer keeping such distace. And with the wrestler starting and staying so low, it's a blurred area for whats a legal punch from a boxer.

    We have seen it. Janes Tony was a multiple time world champion. Fought Randy Couture.
    He landed zero significant strikes. Was taken down and submitted in round 1.

    I'm aware of the earliest forms of known combat and where they arise, still no expert mind, but I'd still dispute anything other than a punch is not the purest form of a "natural reaction". It is if we're being honest.

    Grappling is entirely natural. Likely more so. Chimps grapple, toddlers grapple, two guys outside the pub often end up rolling around and grabbing at each other.
    And even if when do do try to throw punches, they in no way resemble skillful boxing - so not really sure how you think that proves anything.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    The real question is whether an MMA fighter would have more luck against 100 duck sized horses, or against one horse sized duck?

    The boxer might knock the horse sized duck out. The MMA fella might not be able to take it down though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,357 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Honestly had to check what year this thread has been posted in. Mother of God!



Advertisement