Waterford Airport.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Heard this at the start of the VLM service too, and that offered much greater frequencies and also had alot of advertising.

I'm afraid that putting on rose tinted glasses won't help this one. I wish it every successful but I just honestly don't see it working, especially given the overheads of a brand new company starting the route.

yeah so you said before.

Deiseen wrote: »

No one is questioning the difficulties facing the company but I am sure they have done their homework a little more than you have and are sure that they can succeed. It won't be easy but I don't think that they are just foolishly throwing their money in for the craic without having considered it properly.

Yes - that's right - it must have some chance of success at least.

Does anyone know whether the previous airlines actually lost money on the Waterford flights or was it just that they didn't make enough?

MentalMario wrote: »

5kg carry-on allowance.

That certainly ain't amazing.

Although, in saying that, if prices are always under €100, you wouldn't mind paying the check in fee of €20.

I think those smaller planes won't fit the normal wheely hand-luggage cases

Deiseen wrote: »

How many people can fit on these planes?

I read 34 seats in the Irish Times today.

This service looks to tick all the boxes needed for a regional airport service and I can't understand all the negativity?

Business flyers can leave their house at 6am and be in the centre of London just after 9am.

Leisure travelers also have easy access to the EasyJet and WizzAir network as well as some of the charter airlines such as Thomson.

There seems to be this obsession with needing 737s and 320s flying in and out of Waterford every day but I don't think that's ever going to be realistic. The runway could be twelve miles long but there still wouldn't be the regional demand to fill those planes on a regular enough basis to make a route profitable.

Make no mistake, I'd love to be able to fly direct from Waterford - New York/San Francisco for work or to the Canaries on my holidays but even if the runway was extended, I can't imagine an airline being able to justify basing an aircraft in Waterford full-time throughout a season and create brand new routes, especially when there are more profitable opportunities throughout Europe!

AdMMM wrote: »

This service looks to tick all the boxes needed for a regional airport service and I can't understand all the negativity?

Business flyers can leave their house at 6am and be in the centre of London just after 9am.

Leisure travelers also have easy access to the EasyJet and WizzAir network as well as some of the charter airlines such as Thomson.

There seems to be this obsession with needing 737s and 320s flying in and out of Waterford every day but I don't think that's ever going to be realistic. The runway could be twelve miles long but there still wouldn't be the regional demand to fill those planes on a regular enough basis to make a route profitable.

Make no mistake, I'd love to be able to fly direct from Waterford - New York/San Francisco for work or to the Canaries on my holidays but even if the runway was extended, I can't imagine an airline being able to justify basing an aircraft in Waterford full-time throughout a season and create brand new routes, especially when there are more profitable opportunities throughout Europe!

I'm not so sure- if the Airport was to grab some of the Dublin traffic south of say Newbridge it would allow the airport to be attractive beyond just Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford.
People in the west travel much further to use Knock or Shannon (because they have jets/longer haul).

road_high wrote: »

There's only ione airport on the east side of the country where more people live...

Emmmm, aren't you forgetting the "BExit" airport (two of them, in fact) a hundred miles north of Dublin? Lovely long runway, intercontinental flights, and still thousands of people from it's catchment area choose to fly from Dublin.

AdMMM wrote: »

There seems to be this obsession with needing 737s and 320s flying in and out of Waterford every day but I don't think that's ever going to be realistic. The runway could be twelve miles long but there still wouldn't be the regional demand to fill those planes on a regular enough basis to make a route profitable.

I'd probably be convinced by your argument if it weren't for the fact that the sort of service we'd ideally like in Waterford is already available from both Knock and Kerry. Knock has five destinations in the UK, plus places like Milan and Alicante, and Kerry has flights to London, Germany and some of the sun destinations. I know Kerry has its own particular tourist market, but still, I don't see how Waterford wouldn't be able to support a couple of Ryanair flights to London each day - it just doesn't add up when you see what's already in place in Knock and Kerry.

Squidvicious wrote: »

road_high wrote: »

Is there more to that though? Maybe they're not particularly business friendly and the airlines flock to dublin instead? With the right business model I'm just teasing out if Waterford could be a successful airport under a low cost model

I think that Waterford Airport needs to market it's strengths. For example, we're told that we must arrive in Dublin at least 2 hours before take off. For 34 seater planes, surely 30 minutes before take off would be time enough? If you advertise that, it's a real incentive for people throughout the South-East to use Waterford. Unless people are actively told that there's no need to arrive at the airport until 30 minutes before take off, people might think that they need to be at the airport much earlier. I don't recall them ever marketing advantages like that previously.

I think check in still closes 45 mins before take off. I'd only aim to be in Dublin 2 hours before because of any potential issues on the way up really.

JCX BXC wrote: »

2 hours is advertised so that
1). The airport can make money in its shops, vital for all airports nowadays
2). People actually show up for the flight on time, and don't miss it due to a slow tractor on the road or a delay at security. I'd never recommend 30mins before a flight, ever. Especially checking in a bag.

Also, the suggestion that Waterford could be used as a Frankfurt Hahn type airport, 2hrs 7mins to Dublin city centre won't cut it i'm afraid. Nor will the fact that Ryanair have an absolutely massive hub in Dublin and certainly wouldn't move their flights to Waterford, especially considering they've been cutting small airports and moving to big airports lately. We should really be using realistic suggestions.

If Waterford can't sustain a low frequency, low capacity service, I see no hope for them filling an A320/737 whatsoever. You talk about knock, yet knock fills Flybe's expensive flights to Manchester, Edinburgh and Birmingham every day. Even Donegal sustains a flight to Glasgow several times a week.

I know that 30 minutes might seem like you're cutting it a bit fine but it's only a flight for 34 people. How long can it take? I appreciate that if you say 30 minutes some people might take the p*ss, but surely saying 45 minutes would be fine? Have you flown through the airport?

Waterford airport needs to make the most of any advantages that it has. One of those is that you don't need to be at the airport 2 hours before the flight. They don't have shops and I really can't imagine that their bar is much of a money spinner due to the low passenger numbers - how much can 34 people eat or drink? If advertising that you don't need to be at the airport until 30/45 minutes before take off would boost passenger numbers, that's surely the way to go.

I think it is only the Luton flights available today, the others will follow shortly.

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Has anyone booked flights yet ?. On the website any dates I put in shows none available.

It appears to not be working correctly. Website seems very flakey.

Deiseen wrote: »

I think check in still closes 45 mins before take off. I'd only aim to be in Dublin 2 hours before because of any potential issues on the way up really.

That's true but I'd be wary of showing up in Dublin unless you're there 2 hours before. Most of the time, you'd be fine but if the security queues are long, you can find the time going fairly quickly. As you say, there's always a risk of a delay I Dublin. Or maybe I'm just too cautious:D.

they should remove the "search" function for departure and destination. A drop down would be perfect and less clunky. Its not as if they will have 30 or so destinations going forward so a the list is not exhaustive. A drop down menu is more user friendly.

Looks like quite a rush job.

Let's hope it's traffic volumes that caused it to crash

Edit: Extra security protocol, looks more like a cyber attack

JCX BXC wrote: »

Are you booking after July 24th? No flights before then.

Yeah trying September flights.

Not off to a good start, WLR reporting at 12 today, that the airline had to stop selling tickets as they do not have a licence.

Deiseen wrote: »

A license for what? Either way that is really not good....

They said a "Tour" licence. Not sure what that means.

Probably a tour operator's licence. No-one can sell airline tickets other than the airline itself (if it has an operating license itself) or someone holding a tour operator's licence, which is specific to the state - so Aer Southeast would need an Irish one to sell tickets ex Waterford, and another to sell tickets ex UK.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Very poor for a service that needs everything available to it to get off the ground. It's causing it's fail before it begins.

You called it

Deiseen wrote: »

I can actually feel how much you want this venture to fail through my computer. I'll bet you'll be popping the champagne when it folds up and people lose their jobs.

I want nothing but the opposite, I've vested interests in waterford and would love for this to succeed, sadly you can't see past fantasy it seems.

And people losing their jobs? Explain to me who will be losing their jobs? Seems like a very poor arguement for keeping a service that isn't viable. Don't the inefficient state companies use this excuse?

Deiseen wrote: »

Whats the fantasy? Everyone on here knows what the company is up against and has stated the booking thing is a major mishap, including myself. You on the other hand have contributed nothing other than saying that its foolish and they well never succeed.

As for the jobs. I'm sure the company is run by bots and has absolutely no one working for it at the moment.

The only problem you seem to have is that I don't have the same opinion as you. Respectfully, take off the rose tinted glasses and look at the service. The chances of it succeeding are low, mishaps (already), no known name, high prices and low frequency. All things bad for a service. Without a big money pool this service has no chance of success, I suppose we'll find out soon enough how big the money pool is.

Quite disappointing, not the start the service needed.

Deiseen wrote: »

You seem to know a bit more than most. Do you know if this is something that can't be sorted relatively quick?

I don't know what arrangement they plan to have, so no frankly I don't have a clue sorry.

Even if it is sorted, that's damage to sales and PR already. Hopefully they sort it soon.

Anyway, If you're to take an optimistic approach to it it may result in more people hearing about the airline, the old Ryanair approach of all PR is good PR.

Deiseen wrote: »

You seem to know a bit more than most. Do you know if this is something that can't be sorted relatively quick?

It's like any regulatory requirement: as long as you have all your documentation in order - and an insurance bond in place - then it's fairly straightforward.

But the fact that they didn't seem to know that they needed a TOL is strange, as it's one of the first things anyone embarking on this kind of project learns.

Contrary to what's frequently said on any of these threads, there's a great advantage to these kind of split operations, with the commercial side kept separate to the AOC. It keeps all the financial risk associated with operating the business away from the costs of maintaining and operating the aircraft. We'd have a much healthier regional airline network in Europe if ticket selling "virtual" airlines were encouraged, rather than obstructed (and constantly criticised on the internet! )