RIP Padraig Nally

Well that isn't true.

If so, then there will have been a case where they haven't attempted to get a prosecution - do you know of one?

To death?

Yeah, my bad, I meant fatally, thus why I mentioned that the starting point should be seeing if the evidence points to self defense. I'd be aware of a few cases where intruders got a hiding and no charges followed (usually where the intruder knew worse would be forthcoming if the case were pursued).

After considering the evidence given at the original trial, I am of the firm belief that it was murder.

Ward was shot and wounded and while trying to flee was then beaten savagely with an ash plant (a stout walking stick). When he wouldn't die (like a badger) he was given the coup de grâce by means of a second shot.

After the first shot, while fleeing, he was no longer a threat to Nally.

I said in a post above that I believe that the balance of Nally's mind was disturbed at the time.

Nice bit of sarcasm at the end……how many times did Ward 'visit' Nally, did Nally actually know him? Mick Clifford's piece suggests it was wards first time visiting Nally's property the previous day he had asked nally for directions to a lake/river for fishing?

We don't know how many times Ward visited the farm owned and worked by Nally. What we do know is Ward had about 80 previous convictions for burglary, larceny and assault. Those are only the ones he was caught and convicted of. Nally knew exactly what Ward was up to. He wasn't interested in directions, but he was fishing. Live a life like that and you take the risk that someone will fight back and win.

Nally is a hero.

Because we can all kill intruders with impunity now, apparently…

Honestly I don't see how you could be struggling with the concept that some people have a certain level of praise for him.

Personally I think hero is an extremely strong descriptor, so I wouldn't use it personally.

But I think what struck a chord with people and with this particular case is everyone knows or knows of a Padraig Nally and everyone knows or knows of a John Ward or at least did back then. Maybe it is different now.

It's quite easy to sympathise with one and not the other, for very obvious reasons.

Looking at Wards criminal record it's hard not to conclude that he was an absolute menace to society who left a trail of innocent victims and destruction in his wake.

I also think the justice system and the state have to shoulder their portion of Blame for what happened, he had 4 live bench warrants out for his arrest at the time of his killing. He had a wife and 10+ kids, unless he was Irelands hide and seek champion he could not have been that hard to track down.

Nally in reality is probably only a bit part player in the whole saga. And it wasn't really about him, but about everyone else's collective,. One which was always likely to happen sooner or later.

What should we do with intruders, coming into someone's home,( where there may be children or vulnerable people) to steal or worse?

so to extrapolate from above…..someone comes to your door / through your front gate looks a bit disheveled, you don’t like the look of him and you become fearful for your life, …….based on the opinion you form from viewing him through window, you get your shot gun out of storage load it , crack the door open and let him have it…..? The guy could have no previous convictions or a string of them like ward but what does it matter he sparked utter fear /terror into you and deserves what he gets for ‘trespassing’ on to your ‘castle’

Oh right, so there was nothing about Travellers in general on this thread then?

Just like asking for a smoke is a pre-cursor to a fight, or a mugging. But i'd be saying the same thing about Nally no matter the gender, race, ethnic status or whatever else. Someone with a rake of convictions and multiple warrants was about to commit another crime and his reign of terror came to a swift end by the actions of Nally. God rest his soul.

Oh, is this what happened?

He was able to watch his house about to be broken into. Lucky for him he was able to stop it.

you are just being a w@nker now

Mod: Warned for personal abuse

It couldn't have been easy for Mr Nally to live with the reality that he took a life. My sense is that he was at his wits end. That he snapped. We all have a breaking point. If you haven't peace of mind you have nothing.

I can see the merit of mitigating circumstances and a character reference if it arose in the defence of Mr Nally as he as defending his property. But I believe that both mitigating circumstances and character references need to allowed only in certain circumstances. For example character references/mitigating circumstances shouldn't be allowed in cases of theft, unprovoked assault or drink driving.

Bit of a sweeping generalisation no? I had a traveller stop me in Coolock looking for directions to the Omni in Santry when I was about 12, was he scoping me out to rob me of the about 50p I had in me pocket at the time?

Ward was clearly a scumbag, no matter where he was from or what community he was a member of but its very harsh to paint thousands of people with the same brush. A few posts above is examples of discrimination travellers face every day and your post above is another one, I'm not sure if you'd get away with making those generalisations about any other group of people.

Their excuses are legendary. A neighbour of mine met one coming out of his own lane with his trailer hooked up. "I'm only borrowing it for a few minutes to move a horse" was the excuse!

"Nor, in our view, would it be just to lay down a wholly objective standard, to be judged by the standards of the hypothetical reasonable person. The victim of a burglary is not in the position of an ordinary reasonable man or woman contemplating what course of action is best in particular circumstances […] To hold a person in this situation to an objective standard would be profoundly unjust".

There is a but after that. I can't quote it for some reason.

If the jury found that the homeowner honestly held a belief that force was necessary beyond the level that most reasonable people would think necessary, the homeowner gets acquitted.

An acquittal would be if the prosecution failed to prove that accused did not believe the level of forced they used was necessary and then fail to prove that a reasonable person would not come to the same conclusion.

Murder

If a jury finds the prosecution has proven that an accused knew the force they used in response to an unlawful attack was disproportionate to the attack, and that a reasonable person would also consider the force excessive, that is murder.

Manslaughter

If a jury finds the prosecution has failed to prove that an accused did not honestly believe that the force they used was necessary for self-defence, but has proven that a reasonable person would consider the force used was disproportionate, that is manslaughter.

Aquittal

An acquittal arises when a jury finds the prosecution has failed to prove that an accused did not honestly believe the force they used in response to an unlawful attack was necessary for self-defence and has also failed to prove that a reasonable person would not have reached the same conclusion.

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2022/06/15/murder-charge-acquittal-on-basis-of-self-defence-rare/

You can be assured of this anyways, if Mr. Nally did what he did LAST year instead of 2004, Mr. Nally would have been sentenced to life, his property confiscated by the state authorities and full exoneration for the gadge with the previous 80 convictions. The current neo-liberal regime who will prosecute a Garda for doing his job against 3 other thieving robbing scumbags isn't going to look twice at some poor farmer who they'll be soon wanting to jail for warming their own house with turf, let alone protect themselves.