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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,968 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    That looks brilliant. If it can charge from the 7.3kw CP it would be fantastic. Hard to believe it would be free shipping from Spain being so heavy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭dubguy45


    Could someone with more intelligence than me ask the supplier some questions to see if they reply ,and how competent their answers are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Alkers


    That's very suspect, when you read down to the details it seems it's the r600 for that price not the r4000.

    9 Appliances Simultaneously]--- it portable power station features 2 * AC outlets (230V 600W, 1200W Peak), 2 * USB-C ports, 2 * USB-A ports and 1 * DC car port. With an output of up to 600W, it R600 outdoor generator is specially designed for charging kettle, juice, laptops, car refrigerator, drone and other outdoor electronics, power your outdoor adventure without worry.

    [299Wh Huge Capacity, reject from 0-100% in 1 Hour]--- Fully reject the portable power station with AC wall outlet in only 1 hour with it fast charging technology, no bulky power brick, only a single cable to recharge R600 at most 400W max ..

    [Fast Solar Charging]--- Use clean, green renewable energy to recharge R600 solar generator in as fast as 1.5 hours with 200W solar input. Allow you to reject freely while outdoor camping.

    [LiFeP04 Long-Life Battery]--- Equipped with LFP battery cells, use and recharge R600 more than 3000 times before hitting 80%. That's almost 10 years of regular use. R600 portable generator includes advanced BMS protection, monitoring voltage, current, and temperature to keep your LFP battery running for years.

    [Reliable UPS]--- R600 mini portable generator provides backup power instantly when the grid fails, protecting your desktop PC, file servers, and other sensitive devices from data loss or damage.

    [What You Get] - it R600 portable power station, AC charging cable, user manual, 5 years warranty and friendly customer service.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    The r4000 only charges at 3kW



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Manual for it here https://uk.iallpowers.com/cdn/shop/files/R4000-Power-Station_User-Manual_V20230330.pdf?v=12352435915472234823

    From reading it looks like it can take about 10A (2kW) from a type 2 connection. Price is €1,800 from their website.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Here is the correctly priced listing from teh actual manufacturer
    https://iallpowers.eu/en-fr/products/allpowers-r4000-portable-power-station-4000w-3600wh?variant=45768624603443&country=FR&currency=EUR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=20570647625&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAx9q6BhCDARIsACwUxu7CxwwVYFVUWbBFIsaLJUqgMFWOSGDZ0v7-UfEbufhVCxOUiemN8wsaAnXfEALw_wcB



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Bit interesting how you can see weight is really a limiting factor with those portable batteries

    That's 45kg for approximately 3kWh of power

    A 48V battery case for home solar loaded with 304Ah cells should give over 13kWh of capacity

    However they would typically weigh over 80kg, and when you add an inverter, frame and casing you're likely looking at over 100kg

    You could probably get away with a 4 wheel cart on fairly flat surfaces, however any kind of lumpy terrain will make it impractical

    An electric motor to assist the cart would help, but at this point we're really stretching the definition of portable. Might as well just drive a golf cart around with an inverter 😁

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    I wonder what you'd get if you ordered it at 250 Euro ? anyone want to take a gamble ? 😁

    It is an interesting device for sure but I would make more use of it than just using it as expensive UPS, but couldn't justify it at that price.

    Plan would be charge it up during the day and use it for making tea, coffee, microwave etc and maybe use it to power the pellet stove. Which wouldn't be a big load anyway I suppose.

    I'd probably be better off getting a generator hooked up to the house mains and a switch to isolate from the mains, at least it would be always ready to go no need to worry about charge or battery longevity and a lot cheaper. Some of the prices for backup batteries installed are nuts.

    A domestic backup battery are too pricey at the minute.

    I might see if I can get a 200 Ah LifeP04 off Aliexpress, there are some good sources I spotted yesterday, I have a 600 Pure sinewave inverter but could upgrade that to around 2 Kw just to keep the Well pump and Septic tank pumps going and the pellet stove.

    I just got fed up of all the power cuts this year between planned and faults and working from home it's a pain.

    One plan would be to get a grid inverter and if that works without mains power by feeding to the house from a battery I could stick a 3 pin plug on it and feed to the house this way through a regular socket, I know not the best way of doing it but it would still work, I know someone who does it that way and it works great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Yeah you're spot on there, it's the R600 they are actually selling.

    That would be a seller to avoid you wouldn't know what you'd get but having seen the R600 it looks like a convenient way to keep the internet going and maybe a fridge for a while, keep the laptops topped up etc.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    A fair number of sellers are advertising EU stock nowadays so should be doable

    Andy from https://off-grid-garage.com/ has done lots of cell testing and lists the sites he buys from

    You can save a lot of money assembling a battery but there is some risk associated. Plenty of people have done it though so it's pretty straightforward

    You can get a generator and changeover switch fitted to an inverter, battery and solar panels. Then you've power in all events, plus you can use the generator to charge the battery in an outage if you're stuck. That means the generator can be kept at its most efficient load and you can set quiet hours so it doesn't run while you're trying to sleep

    Plus at times when the grid is available you make money by selling electricity to the grid and charge the battery on cheap night rates

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    That would be good as an internet UPS alright, should keep it going and a laptop topped up for a couple of hrs or more.

    Only thing is that to power the well I'd need a lot more juice, and the septic tank this is where I believe a generator is best. If only the car charger could give power back to the grid and you could get a generator/battery to connect to the type II plug…..

    powerwall type batteries are still a mad price especially when you factor in installation and inverter , I don't know if any of those batteries include inverter ?

    I do use a 600 watt pure sinewave inverter off a car battery which is handy for keeping the internet running so that's a cheap way of doing it if a bit messy but it works and cheap. I just have to remember to keep it topped up once a month that would give me more storage than the R600 even by not running the battery down all the way which is bad for lead acid. It's not a deep cycle battery.

    a 12v 100 Ah LiFeP04 would keep things going a lot more though and I could put a 1.5 Kw inverter on it to run the well and septic tank pumps, although, they have a very high starting current load.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Thanks for the link, a lot of info there.

    Yeah bit of thinking to do, I think a generator is the best way and maybe a small battery, at least the generator could keep us going for extended periods.

    We don't have solar and it's not an investment I'm willing to make at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,233 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Amnyone have the car set up as a battery source for when the power goes down?. Have been reading a bit about vehicle to house storage after seeing a company on nationwide using old ev bateries for pv storage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,261 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Many modern EVs have a 3 pin UK style socket that can be used in an emergency to power essentials. For those EV that don't have this feature you can buy an inverter that plugs into cigarette lighter or direct to 12 volt.

    In the future it may be possible to use a bi directional charger to power the house from the cars battery, and while some EVs are capable in theory of this, it's not yet really a thing. It could be a massive thing in the future, charging car at night on cheap rate and powering entire home at peak prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    When I had the id3 I used a 600 watt pure sinewave inverter directly off the battery terminals, the ignition had to be on or the cars own inverter wouldn't have kept the 12v battery topped up, it worked great except I had to go out and turn the car back on, every 30 mins it would shut off.

    The id3 77 Kwh has bidirectional charging but a bidirectional home charger is incredibly expensive at the moment. Last time I checked it was around 6000 pounds sterling, there is a lot more involved and needs a DC- AC converter to power the house. It's going to be several years before they come down in price for obvious reasons.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    This is where I want to see it go, taking DC from the car and running it into an inverter at the charging station makes the home side expensive.

    Renault have been experimenting for years with AC V2H/V2G. They're making it standard with the new Renault 5. You'll need a specific wallbox to enable it but it's using the cars inverter so should be much cheaper than the CHAdeMO or CCS solutions currently available.

    https://www.mobilize.com/en/wearemobilizers/electric-car-charging-mobilize-simplicity-serves-renault-5-e-tech-electric/

    I can see the equipment mainly being used for fleet cars and vans, but should mean the component costs are sensible for home users.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Currently the only way to do it is if your car has V2L onboard through an inverter and you just run an extension lead into the house

    There's chargers coming that can use the car as a battery for the house or sell it to the grid, but the certification process is likely a bit stricter and there doesn't seem to be a preferred way of implementing it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    "using the cars inverter" I can't imagine that being able to power much in the house ?

    I was a big fan of the 80s Renault 5, those were the days you could fit 10 kids in the back + boot , in fact, I remember seeing a youtube add from the 80s advertising just that lol.

    Direct from the DC port is probably the way to go for more power.

    It's nuts to think VW couldn't make a inverter for their ID charge sockets like the Hyundai ioniq 5 for example.

    If I remember correctly, VW promised V2G EVSEs ?



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    V2H/G is going to be complicated in Ireland, in the short terms

    They basically are the same as solar inverters, take a high voltage DC and convert to AC.

    And will be grid tied, which will come under ESBN NC6/NC7 regulations, as it's an inverter

    If you have solar your likely will already be at the limit of the NC6.

    A full changeover switch with a generator input and a V2L capable car would work well (as long as your careful with your power use)



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    From the press shared looks like the component is capable of operating at up to 32A for 22kW on 3-phase. That would limit it to 7.2kW for domestic use in Ireland which is still pretty decent as a supplementary supply. If the wallbox is much cheaper than a DC V2G solution I can see people going for it as a decent backup.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    BYD seal V2L working well in power cuts. I think it maxes out around 3kw which is fine for the essentials and wifi if needed for work etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    3 Kw more than good enough for me really, the only issue is running out of power after a couple of hrs with a small battery but EV could keep going for days, I'm just surprised it's taking so long for this tech to become standard.

    Most domestic petrol generators are only 1-3 Kw anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    How does that work , do they sell a compatible EVSE ?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    We need rules and regulations.

    IS10101 2020 which was released last year or so cemented EV charging infrastructure into the regulations as it was an amendment to the previous ET101. Its a new field, relatively speaking so someone needs to drive the process on. Id say the considerable cost of fitting one to a typical dwelling will be prohibitive and will scare most off the idea.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    And that's my point, that currently would require a NC7 application which has been reduced but still around the 1k mark. And that's just for the ESBN application. As it's an inverter, connected to the grid.

    25 amps, on the inverter(s) size (even if your not exporting that) is the limit for an nc6



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Yes, but that's also needed for a DC V2G/V2H system. The fact that it's re-using the inverter equipment in the car compared to the CCS or CHAdeMO would mean it's still cheaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,261 ✭✭✭zg3409


    So a proper v2h or v2g system acts like a solar inverter and just tops up the house supply and if the house takes more then the house pulls from the grid. In the case of a power cut you need a system similar to a solar home battery system that works during a power cut.

    The technology for all this exists today and some say some of ID range cars have the capability to do this already. Indeed inverters that an do this are on every house that has solar panels.

    The Irish regulations are slightly different than other countries and the car manufacturers want to get a cut of the money or have extra fees to enable this option. They will claim it's to do with battery warranty and potentially more battery warranty claims if everyone is powering their house from the cars battery and putting in more charge discharge cycles. The grid operators don't want competition

    Hobbyists have already gotten this to work. One system is a manual change over of small loads such as powering lights and sockets from the car in the evening and charging car for free at work or on low night rate. This can be automated.

    Other DIY options tap into the high voltage battery and use a solar inverter designed to connect to a home battery, not ideal but similar to using an old EV battery mounted to the house wall to power the home hit instead keeping it in the car. Again messy and risky

    Beware the normal V2L CANNOT and Should not be connected to your home fuse board without mechanical and electrical isolation such as needed for an automatic switch over backup generator.

    The future seems to be AC coupled systems with the inverter in the car working like a solar inverter, that makes the home charger relatively straight forward but no home chargers that I know even are capable, so it would mean at least changing your home charger, along with at least a car software update. The home charger would probably need extra wiring and safety systems like home solar warning stickers on the ESB meter box, fire man cutoff switches etc.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    will be fun getting a car inverter onto the esbn listing….



This discussion has been closed.
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