Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

It might be for another thread, but Putin's invasion of Ukraine has massively accelerated Russia's loss of stature in the world.

For decades, pre and post cold war actors in the middle east could play east off west, but now one pillar of that old competition risks implosion and the other is looking increasingly isolationist, which may in turn end up leading to a general civil revolution in the middle east that's been nascent since a fruit seller in Tunisia set himself on fire.

Russia and the West played the same game. After WWII Britain got 40% of it's oil for its Navy fleet from Iran and were active in toppling any dissent that would make it more expensive. It was a western backed regime that extinguished democracy there and strengthen autocracy rule under the Shah who went on to spaff the nations wealth hosting the most outlandish party of the 20th century at Persepolis which was billed as "The Greatest Party in History!".

Who knows, in a century some new post petro emergent nation in the middle east may look upon the west and decide that it's lacking "guidance".

Russian sabotage and reconnaissance groups have already begun to penetrate the southern streets of Pokrovsk. Newly built defenses in the area were taken without a fight and were totally unmanned.

I am quite concerned about what Trump might do in order to force the "ceasefire" in Ukraine. He has no instruments to force Russia to end the war immediately. A smart, patient man would have provided Ukraine with American-produced weapons in huge quantities, as much as Ukraine can use, and Ukraine might win the war in a year.

Is Trump a smart and patient man? An impatient president of the USA may go for an "easy solution", that is to force Ukraine to sign an agreement that gives Putin all he actually wants. That is a thorough humiliation of Ukraine by forcing it to agree that all lost territories are forever Russian and that Ukraine will not get any security guarantees (= no NATO). This will be the repeat of Minsk agreements, crushing the political system of Ukraine and ensuring that no reconstruction is possible and that refugees not return to Ukraine. It will just give Russia a respite for a few years to build up its forces to go at Ukraine again in the near future.

Deploy the goats! 🐐

The original '60's born Indie generation have been through all this nuke scare era before, it's water off a ducks back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2IzTuRBZBw

Trump is neither smart nor patient

However what he is, is vain, petty and very worried about his image and legacy and of course he wants to enrich his crime family

Ukrainians can work with that ^

Ukraine falling to Russia would be an even bigger disaster than then botched Afgan retreat he started

Relations between Ukraine and the US appear to be very low as Biden exits from the scene. While Ukrainian losses remain secret, its clear they are taking very large losses. No one believes the "official" figures of 31K-43K dead over nearly three years. There has been multiple stories in western media highlighting that, despite mass conscription of hundreds of thousands of men, the main issue for Ukraine now is manpower shortages, not equipment. Washington Post for example:

As Russia has continued gaining ground on the battlefield with high-attrition-style combat, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is facing increased pressure to deploy more younger people to the front lines. With future aid from Washington uncertain, U.S. officials have warned that Ukraine’s personnel shortage is perhaps more critical right now than its arms deficit.

NATO and the "friends of Ukraine" have been placing Zelensky under immense pressure to "solve" the problem by expanding conscription to men in the 18-25 age range. Lots of stories in western media and quotes from "friends of Ukraine" like Lindsey Graham. This is particularly murderous, because the 18-25 group is demographically very small in Ukraine. Ukraine's birth rate is already one of the lowest in the world, if not the lowest. If the youngest men are conscripted and sent to die for nothing, Ukraine demographically dies with them. But for the "friends of Ukraine", this is unimportant. Better that happen than negotiations with Russia.

“We need Ukraine to exist in 20 or 30 years,” said Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s current ambassador to Britain, while addressing students in London. “That future lies with them — those who are 18 now. They are a completely different generation who will save this country.”

There are also potential long-term demographic considerations; people under 30 are part of Ukraine’s smallest generation in its modern history. Ukrainian officials point out that men age 25 and older are more likely to already have at least one child than those under 25.
Oleksandr Gladun, deputy director of the Ptoukha Institute for Demography and Social Studies, said the country’s birth rates started to fall after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, when it faced economic difficulties.

Zelensky, to his credit, at least seems to recognise that and is pushing back that what Ukraine needs most is equipment from NATO to properly equip the men Ukraine already has.

There’s a lot of discussion in the media about lowering the draft age for Ukrainians to go to the frontlines. We must focus on equipping existing brigades and training personnel to use this equipment. We must not compensate the lack of equipment and training with the youth of soldiers.

The priority should be providing missiles and lowering Russia’s military potential, not Ukraine’s draft age. The goal should be to preserve as many lives as possible, not to preserve weapons in storages.

He's not wrong, but the problem there is NATO overpromised and is now under-delivering. NATO - despite its claims three years ago - does not have endless supplies of missiles, planes, shells, guns, tanks and other vehicles. Ukraine has burned through their stocks at a rate NATO probably cant believe, and now all that's left to give is monthly production which is very low and has other demands, like israel and US plans for war with China.

So, the manpower vs equipment choice is false. Ukraine can't kill off its 18-25 population and survive as a nation. And NATO cant provide enough equipment to compensate for Ukraine's manpower issues. The solution is clearly opening real negotiations with Russia, but the "friends of Ukraine" will work to block that.

Wait, I thought it was some pesky law that was the only thing preventing peace from spontaneously and joyously breaking out?? Which would be quite a sight, because we all know how much the Friends of Russia respect and defer to laws.

Remind me again why you're so scathing of the more democratic nation which had made no moves to threaten the sovereignty of any other nation but which saw mass popular support for the armed resistance of the nation ruled by one man for over a quarter of a century, the nation which has seen brutal crack down on public dissent, the nation which has seen political rivals mysteriously 'taken care of'? Remind me again why a sovereign state, one which so recently co-hosted one of the biggest international sporting events in the world, deserved to be invaded and have its democratically elected government either assassinated or arrested, merely for daring to give its citizens the choice of whether or not to join the EU and seek the protection of NATO?

If I thought you were a genuine poster I'd suggest you look in the mirror and examine your conscience. But I don't, "friend of Putin".

It's being reported that Russia is close to an agreement with the new Syrian regime (i.e Turkey) to maintain it's two military bases in the country.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-12/russia-nears-deal-with-new-syria-leaders-to-keep-military-bases

There's nobody to blame but Putin and friends of Putin and enablers of Putin who have killed, raped their way through Ukraine. Russians are particularly to blame for allowing Putin kill so many of their brothers, sons, fathers for nothing.

Just another fire in Russia…

Russia today it's being mentioned further back in the thread are in discussions with NATO (Turkey) to keep bases in Syria. Putin doesn't give a **** of NATO. It's only ever an excuse for sheep to parody back in Russia.

The friends of Russia equate themselves as animals with animal instincts and animal reactions and thought process.

If they can't take ownership for their doings then expect to be treated as animals on the world stage for evermore.

The "friends of Ukraine" are not supporting Ukraine. Compare where Ukraine was in 2008 prior the Budapest declaration the "friends of Ukraine" insisted on, and where it is now with 16 years of the "friends of Ukraine" supposedly "supporting" them.

The influence of the "friends of Ukraine" in Ukraine has been disastrous. And having learned nothing, they are now insisting the Ukraine conscript the small 18-25 age group of men and send them to their deaths to finish off the Ukrainians demographically.

Whatever else this is, its not supporting Ukraine.

Looks like the Kurakhovo stronghold is starting to crumble.

……

About 10,000 casualties per week for months now. Maybe 3,000 to 5,000 killed.

Not nearly enough.

yes , but they will already come with the "right" OS installed. No questioning, no doubts, pre-equipt with Russo-Schizo OS.

What's a vatnik?

Vatnik (Russian: ватник, pronounced [ˈvatʲnʲɪk]) is a political pejorative used in Russia and other post-Soviet states for steadfast jingoistic followers of propaganda from the Russian government.

Borrowed from Russian ва́тник (vátnik, literally “quilted jacket”). The sense of "unintelligent Russian patriot" was derived from the jackets worn by Soviet citizens and an online cartoon about a sentient jacket known by the same name.

The term was popularized in Russia in 2011 and re-popularized at large in 2022 during the Russian invasion of Ukraine to refer to supporters of the invasion, especially online users, even if they are not from Russia.[1] Reflecting usage in Ukrainian and Russian, the term was later extended to refer to Russian soldiers who were involved in war against Ukraine.

in simple words - a selly sad low life low IQ clowns, usually suffering from schizophrenia, always sees enemies around, imaginary of course. We have at least a dozen regular vatniks posting their "concerns" daily, even though, we never asked.

Good point on the EU etc. but disagree on the "meat waves". I find the idea of calling soldiers "meat waves" pretty distasteful and I guess when the dust settles we'll find out how both fared but I haven't bought into the idea of "meat waves". It makes no logical sense.

Sure that's been their tactic historically which has worked well/cheaper,life is viewed cheaply there , bizarre to take insult at it imo, they seem to be lacking in new tricks.