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Required To carry an Irish passport When in Northern Ireland????

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,921 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Maybe I'm wrong but that was changed with the 27th amendment. If you are born in Ireland to non-irish parents you do not have automatic entitlement to Irish citizenship.

    Notwithstanding any other provision of this Constitution, a person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, who does not have, at the time of the birth of that person, at least one parent who is an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen is not entitled to Irish citizenship or nationality, unless provided for by law



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,165 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Both bits are important, since they must be read harmoniously with one another (i.e. what Art 9.2 means has to be read consistently with what Art 2 says). A distinction is being made between being part of the Irish nation and being a citizen — i.e. it is possible to be part of the Irish nation without being a citizen. So when Woodie40 says "born on this island you are irish", there is a solid basis for that. (If he'd said "born on this island, you're a citizen" it would have been more problematic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,921 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Ill be honest and say I assumed he was talking about being a citizen given the context of the thread and the post he was responding to. Try going to Northern Ireland and telling them you are a member of the irish nation, but not entitled to citizenship and that's why you didn't apply for an ETA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,716 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Provided the airline accepts it, no reason why you can’t travel from Zurich to Ireland in a Swiss ID card as it is an EEA state. Travelling from RoI (really Ireland) to NI won’t involve any border control. If stopped by the PSNI you’d have to satisfy them of your Irish citizenship; I doubt that is beyond your ken. Inter alia, I believe that your Swiss ID card identifies your place of birth/origin which I assume (perhaps incorrectly) is on the Ireland of Ireland. You are clearly over 21 and thus entitled to Irish citizenship by birth unless you were th me child of a foreign diplomat. If in doubt, emphasise the accent of origin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,716 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    His Swiss ID will establish his place of birth to the same legal standard as any U.K. or Ireland driving licence. I have in the past regularly entered Ireland on a Hong Kong ID ( as it was the only one which was in a card size which fitted in my wallet) Which in a “local journey” between the U.K. and Ireland was more th a sufficient evidence, legally.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Swiss IDs have your place of origin as the municipality where you gained citizenship. It won't mention Ireland at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭Suckler


    I'm Irish by birth and Swiss by choice, but I don't have a passport for either country

    Why is this going off on tangents about constitutions and what airlines may/may not accept.

    Go get a passport. This problem solved plus any travel outside Switzerland/Ireland/Uk solved in advance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,716 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    So that’s the place d’origine rather than location of birth which would be assumed to be the nature of an origin!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,165 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    A fair assumption, in the context. But the citizenship/part of the nation distinction does raise interesting questions. There's a possible parallel with a citizenship/identity distinction that (the UK government thinks) is implicit in the GFA. The GFA affirms the right of denizens of NI to choose their own identity — British, Irish, both, neither — and not to have an identity imposed on them. But UK law assigns British citizenship to (almost) everyone born in NI. The UK government takes the view that this is not contrary to the GFA; others who consider themselves disadvantaged by this take the view that it is, and the matter ended up in the courts.

    An Irish woman born in Derry applied (before Brexit took effect) for an EEA residence card for her US citizen husband. Under UK law at the time, as a British citizen she had more limited rights in this regard that an EU citizen exercising free movement rights would have had, and the application was refused. She objected that she had never identified as British and the imposition of British citizenship on her, to her disadvantage, was a violation of the GFA.

    The upshot of that particular case was a change in UK immigration law so that all British citizens born in NI who are seeking to have their foreign spouses reside with them in the UK will be treated as if they were Irish citizens, if that would secure a more advantageous outcome.

    That particular change is now irrelevant, since Brexit has taken effect and no-one seeking to bring a spouse to the UK can invoke free movement rights. But it does make the point that identity, or being "part of the nation", is a status distinct from citizenship, and that it can in some circumstances trump citizenship — i.e. you can assert and exercise rights on the basis of your identity/national membership that you don't have arising out of your citizenship.

    This isn't a uniquely British/Irish thing. There was a case in Australia a couple of years ago an Aboriginal Australian who was born i,n and a citizen of, New Zealand, was convicted of crimes in Australia. After he had served his sentence the authorities sought to deport him as an alien (which is standard when non-citizens have served a sentence) and he objected that, as an Aboriginal Australian, he couldn't be an "alien" in Australia, even if he didn't have Australian citizenship. He was successful.

    It remains to be seen what the scope and effect of the "part of the nation" provision in Art 2 will be, but if the government ever does seek to deport someone who was born in Ireland, I expect we'll find out.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah it's the lieu d'origin. One of a number of weird things they do.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What a first world problem attitude.

    There are plenty of people who might get the chance to go away once every few years for a small holiday in one corner of one country in Europe who have to go and get a passport and will be delighted to get that small luxury, yet it is beneath you?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    And what is the Public Services Card if not a defacto identity card ? It's easier to use carrots than sticks.

    In the UK under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) you must reveal your PIN or password for phone or other electronic devices.

    Aer Lingus are quite happy to take Irish driving license as ID within the Common Travel Area.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The initial issue of the Public Service Card carried a chip carrying information not on the face of the card. This fell foul of the GDPR and so has been dropped.

    It was intended to be a national ID card by stealth and was not backed by legislation. It could be reintroduced as such but that has not happened (yet).

    The passport card is a better option for citizens.



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