Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

The thing is we don't know.

Alfie and Shirley could be telling the truth, but they could also be telling lies, deliberately, if they were involved in the murder.

Suppose, just for speculation's sake, Sophie was really hit unexpectedly from behind, did not shout on top of her lungs, did not put up a fight, it's entierely possible that Alfie and Shirley were indeed telling the truth and didn't hear anything that night. And then remember the blood stain at the door? Would the killer have returned to the house if Sophie was shouting loudly for help? Probably not, the killer would have left quicker, not bothered going to Sophie's house afterwards, having fears that Alfie or Shirley could see him.

I don't think that Alfie and Shirley would have heard something like the start of the engine of a car, nor if the car was driven slowly, say at 1000 to 1500 rpm away from the scene. So the killer could easily have left quietly as well.

I don't think Sophie was struck and immediately silenced.

There were numerous defensive wounds on her hands and arms, indicating that the attack was prolonged. One would expect, in such a situation, cries of pain and pleas to stop, help etc.

Fiona Pender also. Last person to see her alive was her partner, violent towards her previously, but well connected supposedly.

Let me clear also- I don’t want a police force afraid to act- and indeed we have seen that factor creep in with the current Commissioners reign - I know there was a lot of sh-te to clear up - from penalty points cancelling to much more serious issues such as bullying of officers etc

You can clean up a police force, but also bring them forward and leave that behind- I think he’s helped clean up the force in some ways -but I think it’s been at the expense of stagnation - of fear- of not being able to use initiative - that can’t be helping both this and the other murder investigation cases mentioned over the last number of posts.

Certainly in my mind, there’s an overhaul of a Garda watchdog with real teeth - we’ve seen multiple reports of GSOC been blocked by the Garda force when trying to do their job - there’s too many officers on leave whilst trivial investigations take place over YEARS- exhibit “a”- the missing bicycle during lockdown.

And also- the commissioner must go - he’s bloody useless - exhibit “b”- Dublin riots.

It’s no wonder no one has been caught for Sophie’s murder.

Imo the murderer beat her to a pulp in a rage, realised there was no going back, and then used the block to make sure that she was dead. More of an escalation without limit, than any sort of planned attack. The use of a block would seem to me the sort of way someone may have learned to put an injured animal out of it's misery in a rural area, but I don't know much about that.

I think a shotgun would be the usual method.

That's a new angle. I'll excerpt this from the original reddit post that the Crime Guy post refers to:

These are not the actions of a rage-filled disorganized killer. They are certainly not the actions of an inebriated killer. It also suggests an element of planning to the killing. Where did the killer get the tool necessary to cut the briars? It's improbable he carried this on his person. It is more likely he retrieved it from his vehicle or even from Sophie's house.

I think the reasoning is to allow the assailant to pull Sophie back down from the ditch. The body is on top of a cut briar, numbered V, not in the photo in the link posted, but is in the Reddit photos. As far as I can see, there are no cut off briars left around, so maybe they were taken in case they contained forensic evidence. Or were they cut and bagged by Garda Pat Joy before the body was covered around 1 or 2 o’clock?

In the reddit post from Phil Mathers on it, he seemed to think it was only the briars near the body that were cut - rather than a general cutting. And also it wasn't done by forensics.

There are many photos of the hedge and nothing else appears to be cut. One of the cut stems is still green, so it hasn’t been cut all that long ago, and December is an odd time of the year for gardening. It is far enough away from the latch to be connected with the free movement of the gate.

The cut stems appear in the very first two photos taken by Detective Garda Pat Joy. In one photo we can see Shirley Foster’s car beside the body so this photo was taken before 12:30 on 23rd  December, we know her car was moved by Gardai farther down the lane before this time. The forensic team didn’t show up until 11pm that evening. These photos prove the briar stems were cut before or during the murder.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MurderAtTheCottage/comments/1efq5z8/briar_stems_and_other_troubling_details/?rdt=62430

The Dublin forensics team did not arrive until 10 pm, so it couldn’t be them. But Pat Joy had crime scene forensic training and was there around noon.

Also the photos don’t prove that the briars were cut before Sophie landed where she was found. All the cuts including the briar under the body could have been cut any time after the murder but before 12:30. It could still have been the killer of course, but I don’t buy it. Also where are the cut-off briers?

I don't accept either the logic or the statistical evidence that the killer here must have had an association of some sort with Sophie. Knowing who she was, where she lived, when she was home would be enough. A brief introduction may have occurred previously but Sophie was not expecting any company that evening and the killer arrived uninvited. I don't think any relationship or association existed between them previously - except in the mind of the culprit.

It goes like this; if Sophie was killed by a stranger why are there no unidentified fingerprints?

But if she was killed by somebody known to her, then their fingerprints are quite naturally found in her house or around the premises, and attract no comment at all.

Such as….family members, former guests, the neighbours, the postman, anyone who did any work in or on the cottage, or on any of the other houses in the little group. Anyone who had land in the area so naturally had to use the gate. Etc etc.