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Do you believe that we in Ireland are now richer than those in the UK?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,164 ✭✭✭yagan


    What we take for granted is still amazing to others. It took three years of living in desolate outback Australia to really appreciate how restorative and beautiful the greenery we have is.

    Plus another thing I took for granted in the past is actually how colourful our towns can be, even if they're a bit run down compared to the uniform red brick of industrial Britain. There's whole new apartment blocks all around Britain that had to use red brick so as to not upset the industrial heritage look!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭crusd


    I have an uncle, now passed, and cousins, in a mid sized town about an hour from London. I was there a few times in my teens and early 20's - mid to late 90's and early 2000's. What struck me on those visits was how ahead and vibrant everything seemed compared to Ireland. Everything was brighter, cleaner. Restaurants and bars were well done up (Pubs were and are **** compared to Irish pubs, but at least they looked the part).

    I wasn't back there again until 2022 for my uncles funeral and what struck me was how grim it now looks. Everything is jaded. Discount stores everywhere. The streets were grim, the houses were grim and it just had a vibe of decay. I though maybe it was the vibe of a funeral that changed my outlook but was back and visited cousins again last year when we went to Legoland and Harry Potter world. The destination events like those are great, and also the historical sites. But it is a veneer. But the towns, the hotels and everything still has that feeling of decay



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,026 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    David McWilliams shouldn't be throwing stones in glasshouses.

    If it wasn't for our corporation tax racket, Ireland wouldn't be in any better of a position than the UK. Ireland collected €28bn in corporation tax last year while the UK collected €111bn. They collected about 4x more than us, but they have a population that is 13x larger.

    If the rest of the world were to ever force a halt to the racket we've got going on, it'd be Ireland that was in need of IMF assistance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,164 ✭✭✭yagan


    The UK had an IMF bailout in 1976.

    Anyhow the new CTR deal is actually converging countries towards a common rate of 15%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    colourful and fragrant. That’s certainly the phrases that spring to mind when I’m stepping over sleeping bags and trying not to choke on the smell of piss and vomit when I walk to the office from Connolly station.

    Our countryside is beautiful, I love my spin around the Dublin and Wicklow mountains, it is stunning, but get out of the towns and cities in England and they have some equally stunning countryside and venture into wales and Scotland and you really get into the “breathtaking” area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,164 ✭✭✭yagan


    Scotland is incredible, but it's hard to ignore the urban decay when you're arrive in English towns and cities that feel like Connelly station! Wales has really rough spots too, proper in your face poverty.

    I think the whole north inner city Dublin feels like a depressed English city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    The UK economy is in decline Brexit was a mistake it makes it expensive and complicated for companys to trade with eu country's . Local council are having to cut back on basic services because they are short of money The labour governments policy is to talk about growth by lossening up regulations on planning and building and announcing a new runway .it takes 10 years to build a runway which is financed partly by extra tax's on airlines . The eu is in decline it's trying to compete with China who can make cheap electric cars .china has announced a new free deepseek ai app which is free . Brexit has damaged the UK economy while not stopping 1000s of illegal migrants from arriving on boats . Ireland is booming because we have an open economy in the eu with close ties to American tech company's .

    London is doing ok because theres a lot of rich people living there and it has the financial industry . The problem with raising tax's is it encourages rich people to leave the UK



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,164 ✭✭✭yagan


    The rich in the UK never did pay taxes. The problem is regardless of what the rate is the UK has loads of loopholes for those who want to offshore their income.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    Yes theres loads of loopholes to avoid paying tax,s but the rich spend money in cafes restaurants and they employ people who pay tax on their salarys



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,325 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    So does everyone else. Trickle-down effect is not real.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,164 ✭✭✭yagan


    With taxes on pay, plus council rates many low paid workers pay more tax that the rich. I'm not talking as a precentage of income but in actual gross amount.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    i don,t think the ordinary person go,s to restaurants where a meal is 500 euro or a hotel where a room is 300 euro.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,325 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Rich people don't do that enough for it to have any impact. And the tax take on those is tiny, and about to fall again.

    Someone on 1m does not spend 20x as much on things like that than someone on 50k. Someone taking in 1bn does not spend 20,000x as much.

    Trickle-down economics is a massive lie.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Trickle-down has been debunked time and time again.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,530 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Your point on education is on point.

    We need to ensure it is a priority for all.

    The US and the UK have dumbed down education for decades.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    I’m not sure we are in any position to point fingers there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,164 ✭✭✭yagan


    One of the reasons the UK has resisted Schengen is the EU having eyes on the movements of non domicile evasion.

    We're in Schengen Information System so it's not as easy. Mazers does help with cayman island accounts, but the level of facilitation that UK allows is piracy, old swashbuckling Britain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    what has Schengen got to do with non dom status? Ireland has proportionately more non doms than the uk and the regime is far more generous. Ireland is the biggest tax haven in Europe, if not the world.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,164 ✭✭✭yagan


    I bet you won't be able to link one credible source for your assertions.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    https://ormsby-rhodes.ie/ireland-a-destination-for-non-doms/

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/tax-revenue-to-fall-as-non-dom-count-reaches-7-000-1.3775001

    7000 non doms in Ireland in 2019 and no doubt increasing, 60 odd thousand in the UK and dropping. Proportionately that means more non doms here.
    Care to explain what you were waffling on about Schengen for?

    Or maybe explain why the Irish government actually went to court to try and help apple avoid paying taxes? Ever heard of leprechaun economics?
    Ireland is a fundamental part of the process that knowingly allows Multi national companies avoid paying taxes. Never wondered why one of our largest companies has only a handful of employees and is regulated at a law firm in Dublin?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/microsoft-irish-subsidiary-paid-zero-corporate-tax-on-220bn-profit-last-year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,872 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Is Ireland richer than the UK? Yes and it started in the 90's.

    If you don't believe it and are at the bottom of the rung understand that your standard of living is still 60% higher on average than those in similar circumstances in the UK.

    It started in the 90's as the economy opened up.

    We have FDI to thank for this wealth but that's under threat now.

    If you don't believe it go live in the UK on £71 per week and let us know how you get on.

    Post edited by Kermit.de.frog on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    Britain is in an economic crisis so they they are raisimg tax's and reducing regulations to attract investment This is unlikely to work as they are outside the eu and the election of trump is going to make things worse in terms of trade with the UK meanwhile illegal migrants arrive every day I'm the UK. Rich people will continue to leave the UK talking about building a new runway at Heathrow does not help much



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭creeper1


    Yeah. I watched an interview with Michael O'Leary critique the British government using the term Rachel rubbish. That's a fitting name.

    The UK is a hellscape. There's absolute grinding poverty. The only jobs available are low pay and there's a lot of gig economy exploitative practices going on.

    High crime pervades the place. Even in London which is supposedly desirable has very high crime rates with knife crime and all sorts.

    It's just a horrible, horrible place without a single redeeming feature.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    according to Indeed, there are 17,000 jobs within 35 miles of London on over £60,000 per year. In fairness there are only 2000 jobs within 35 miles of Manchester above £60k and 400 jobs over £60k around Edinburgh, but I would hardly say the only jobs are low paid.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    How is it fitting? Sounds like O'Leary having a tantrum honestly.

    Any chance of some sources for the rest of this?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    it is a typical O’Leary tantrum, but in fairness, our UK business is facing an increase in employment costs of around £3m, so are in the process of cutting the capital budget to try and offset some of this. This will mean two of the three office refurbishments will get canned. Hardly the economic stimulation that Labour promised.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    If the previous government hadn't spent a decade and a half running the place into the ground, things might have been better.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 292 ✭✭itsacoolday


    Wow, amazing that Microsoft's Irish subsidary posted 22 billion of profit in a single year. We are indeed fortunate we are the tax haven of the world, and also that we got handouts from the EEC / EU until relatively recently.

    Because the UK was the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EEC and EU, it is not difficult to understand why over 50% of voters in the UK voted for Brexit.

    I am sure Trump and his government will want to bring Microsoft's 22 billion annual profit back to the USA. Especially when we freeload on our neighbours when it comes to defence too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭creeper1


    Fears with Trump bringing multinationals "home" are overblown. Home is now Ireland for a great number of multinationals. The investments have been made and they were carefully thought through for a long term basis. Ireland is a hub for a great many modern industries.

    We should not be complacent but we are on very solid footing and wealth and investment is actually increasing in Ireland.

    Ireland has a massive budget surplus and now has a sovereign wealth fund known as "the future Ireland fund" guaranteeing further prosperity and future pensions.

    We can fritter money away on the most expensive hospital in the world and the most expensive bike shed precisely because of the incredible wealth we have so it is without consequence.

    The pendulum has completely swung in Ireland s favour. From third world in the 19 century to one of the richest countries in the world in the 21st.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    We are in the eu but we are closely aligned with us tech corporations whether trump will try and screw this up with extra trade tariffs is hard to say now .read the news in the uk the uk economy is struggling the only idea they have is to loosen planning regs and to raise taxs as much as possible this does not work as companys can just choose to leave to go to low tax countrys rich people can just move to france or italy .

    we are facing a world where tech is more important ai could replace millions of jobs like office workers editors artists middle class jobs that the government relys on to get tax revenue. manufacturing jobs in the uk are almost nonexistant

    American companys are leading the pace in ai tech apart from deepseek in china which is free to use.

    oleary knows it takes 20 years to build an runway and it,ll be funded by charging airlines a levy.

    does london even need another runway.

    work from home is now standard people mostly travel nowadays to go on holiday

    theres alot of low paid jobs in the uk theres alot of crime in the citys its not a great place to live unless you are middle class and on a good salary.

    ireland is booming more companys would come here but are put off by high rental costs

    if the uk is black ireland is white the uk is like ireland in the 80s its economy is in mediocre condition



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    The pendulum has completely swung in Ireland s favour. From third world in the 19 century to one of the richest countries in the world in the 21st.

    Ireland is not rich. Far from it. The army, garda, roads, healthcare, education and public transport are all well below the standard of a rich country. My opinion anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 292 ✭✭itsacoolday


    Like a house heavily mortgaged, I think we have a huge government debt too, one of the highest in the world per head of population?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Although spending is not high by international standards education is in the ranking for rich countries, on the basis of international surveys, proportion of people with degrees, willingness of people to come and pay for it, and so on. Life expectancy exceeds that of Netherlands, Denmark and Germany, so health can make a case too. I'll not argue for public transport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    third richest per capita after Luxembourg and Singapore.

    That tells you everything you need to know I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    No, it does not and anyone who claims that the GDP of any of these places is the whole story is not serious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    maybe not, but when the measure of a nations per capita wealth is GDP and the three countries with the highest per capita wealth in the world are all notorious tax havens, it does make you question the basis by which Ireland is claiming to be a rich nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,814 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Lots of “ifs” in this post. “If my auntie had wheels, she’d be a wagon”.

    These kinds of posts confuse me, it is almost like you regret Ireland being clever in the first place to have the type of economy that we have…

    The rest of the world can’t force a thing, what the hell does that even mean?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    No, GDP is a measure of production, not wealth. That production may not be owned by people in that country, so is making people in other countries wealthy. Ireland is a rich country because even when you adjust GDP it is in the ballpark of West European countries.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    If we were rich would we not have a standard of living like Luxemburg or one of the Nordic countries?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    Ireland is well off because we are in the eu and we have managed to attract American corporations to set up here read any article about UK labour policy's they are simply raising tax's in order to pay for public services and hoping that ai or some other industry can revive the UK economy. Meanwhile company's are moving to eu countries to access the eu marketplace Brexit has been an economic disaster and they are still trying to get control of immigrants arriving in boats from france



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    Its not a racket American company's choose the setup here based on tax rates it's also good we speak English and had a large well educated work force and a stable economy Ireland has a good image in America we have ties there in terms of Irish emigrants and a similar culture



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    it’s the tax loopholes they are here for, not the actual tax rate. The same goes for Luxembourg.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    They also need to be here to gain access to the eu market place and have a large educated workforce i.m not saying tax loopholes are not important by the way Tesla pays off only 1.5 tax rate in America .anyway the Irish economy is booming versus UK economy in an mediocre situation. UK councils have to reduce services



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Randycove


    no they don’t. Google already employ 2000 people in Budapest and Dell employ 3000 in Bratislava. Both companies conduct job interviews in English to ensure the candidate can speak the language well. Luxembourg is home to Amazons European head office.

    I helped set up a shared services centre for a global company in Budapest and the number of highly educated English speaking graduates coming out of universities there is enormous. What they don’t have is a convenient tax environment and compliant government that allows them to wash their profits before sending them off to the Caymen islands.

    The major economies in Europe are struggling at the moment and Ireland is very much bucking the trend.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭reubenreuben


    That depends what you class as richer?.

    Possibly we feel richer here when looking at the salaries and take home pay but on the other side of the argument is infrastructure and cost of living.

    If you take infrastructure for an example, we are definitely not richer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    If people pay 350k for an ordinary house that's a sign of a booming economy .yes I know there's various tax shelters that can attract companies it's not exactly a secret .the UK is not in the eu why don't they attract more American company's . I remember the Celtic tiger if you look at traffic the housing market it feels we are richer than the Celtic tiger years difference is there's not enough houses being built to keep up with demand

    And the Celtic tiger came to a halt very quickly when the banks needed a bailout from the government .

    Gen z had grown up with smartphones. Apps 24 .,7 internet they probably don't remember the Celtic tiger .

    Getting mortgage approval does not help when there's only a tiny no of houses for sale at. Least in urban areas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭thereiver


    If you read the UK papers about labour the economy it's not a positive situation with vague talk about growth or some bs obout being an Ai

    Superpower .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 292 ✭✭itsacoolday


    Actually in q4 2024 UK growth was slightly ahead of Eurozone growth, which did not grow at all ( 0.1% versus 0 % ).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The same UK papers which pushed Brexit? Why would any sane person trust those papers?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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