The Spanish Football Kiss

Yeah I dont know.

They tend to be a lot more tactile in spain anyway. It's very much storm in a teacup territory.

As yes, the usual 'if a woman did that to a man' whataboutery.

If mouse did it to a cat the mouse would probably be dead.

Neither of those situations are what happened.

In the vast, vast majority of workplaces if a person in a very senior position grabbed another employee and kissed them without consent in front of the rest of the office in the excitment of closing a deal, winning a client etc, it would almost certainly be dealt with very severely and rightly so.

It really doesn't matter if you think that, it wasn't the other way around and he should be punished appropriately.

If i remember remember rightly, he was a long time about coming up with an apology, didn't he brazen it out for days if not weeks?

He apologized very quickly for it but then put pressure on the the player to say she consented to it and then lied at an EGM of the Spanish FA saying she had consented to it. I think if he had resigned he would not be subject to the court case.

The prosecution is seeking 2-and-a-half years in prison for Rubiales

Jaysus.

This is a great point.

A lot of phrases that certain people overuse these days have now become nothing but a boon to the people in question.

I have seen people comparing Gregg Wallace to Jimmy Saville. The former acted inappropriately the other, well you know.

Some people have a "cross this line and its bad" and then put anything else bad into the same category. Sorry, I know thats not very eloquent.

If yer man had grabbed her ass during the hug, that could have been sexual assault, but a brief, not even lingering kiss on the mouth, with the worlds media on them was ill-timed, not thought out, but 2 years in prison? Come on.

I don't remember the kiss specifically but I watched that presentation live and he was acting like an absolutely obnoxious coked up muppet for the whole ceremony. Was not a bit surprised to see him in trouble the next day.

Don't know whether it's assault or not but he deserved to lose his job.

Never saw that before but while I also don't think Adrien Brody is a sexual deviant either that was super inappropriate and most definitely much worse having watched it.

All the videos of the woman in question and her team celebrating and making jokes about the kiss.....she didn't realize it was sexual assault until her accountant told her

Acquitted of coercion for trying to pressure her to say the kiss was consensual, but found guilty of sexual assault and fined €10,800.

Seems fair and reasonable.

So this guy and Jimmy Saville are both the exact same as each other, both just sex offenders and thats its.

Well done, you just made it easier for the next Jimmy Saville to operate.

Not only that, but Jimmy Saville was also accused of far, far worse crimes than just being a "sex offender".

It's not about the phrase "sex offender", it's a legal definition of "sex offender". Both Rubiales and Saville could meet the definition of "sex offender" but it does not mean their crimes are equal, or that calling Rubiales a sex offender puts him on par with Jimmy Saville.

Christ bucketybuck, that's such a weird and unnecessary argument to try and make.

It really isn't.

The original point was that labeling this incident as a sex offense is giving it the same label as what people used to believe sex offences were.

Sex offender used to be a very serious term bringing with it the assumption of serious sexual assault. Hence sex offenders being people to avoid at all costs.

Now it means people who kissed a woman on the lips. Now when people hear "sex offender" they won't think serious sexual assault, they will think it could be just some guy/girl who got done for kissing.

They will now take "sex offender" less seriously and be less worried about people called sex offenders.

Hardly a complicated thing to understand.

I think your phrasing was a little clumsy but I can see the point you are making.

Akin to people overusing "racist" and "nazi".

The same is true for nearly all crimes. They are legal definitions. Rubiales being found guilty of being a sex offender for kissing a woman without her consent does not in any way mean people who commit the types of crimes Jimmy Saville committed (which again, go far beyond just sexual assault) will find it easier to operate or that their actions will be treated as being less serious than they actually are.

Put it this way; it's far more likely that those who think it's okay to do what Rubiales did may now think twice about it and not do it, because this has shown it's a sexual offence to kiss a woman without her consent. So rather than making it easier for the next Jimmy Saville to operate, it's more likely that it deters the next Rubiales from operating.

But according to you he just kissed a woman on the lips.

How do you find it ok to term it assault? Does that not mean 'the term has been completely watered down to possibly mean people who kissed a man/woman on the lips'?

So if you heard that the guy who just moved in down the road was a sex offender, would you just think "Sure that could just mean he misread a signal while talking to a girl and gave her an unwanted kiss. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and there is absolutely no need to question this any further."

Why wouldn't I think along those lines, after all sex offenders do now include people who kissed a girl on the lips in front of millions. It would be wrong for me to assume that he was a rapist or peado when he could easily have done neither.

The "need to question further"? Used to be we didn't need to question further, just being a registered sex offender was enough to know that this person was dangerous. Now we can't be sure without "questioning further", that thing that people are notorious for not doing.

Well I know that if I had a new neighbour who was found guilty of robbery, I wouldn't take it that maybe there's a chance he pocketed a naggin of whiskey in a shop when he was in college so therefore it's grand, nothing to worry about. I'd be making sure my doors are locked and home CCTV has clear views of all entrances until I had a better idea of what his crime was.

Rubiales was found guilty of unwanted sexual contact by way of a non-consensual kiss. That is sexual assault. You can decide that it therefore cheapens all sexual assaults that fall under the same term if you want, but the idea that this "made it easier for the next Jimmy Saville to operate" is pure and utter bullsh*t.