DVB-I and RTÉ

Thanks for sharing the video links, very interesting.

Time is off the essence, and hopefully RTE don't drag it out for years. There is a real need for an Irish based IPTV service. Using the individual players is painful, and many more people these days don't have a cable (of any type) or a box connected to their TV. They rely entirely on streaming, especially in bedrooms, kitchens etc.

Fingers crossed for Jim Higgins and the rest of the team at RTE/Saorview to deliver.

Saorview DVB-I at IBC2024

Irish DVB-I tests continue

Another popular demonstration, available on both the DVB and EBU booths at IBC2024, was the second phase of the DVB-I proof-of-concept from Ireland’s free-to-air platform Saorview. The PoC, which it is hoped will pave the way for a later public trial, integrates several features that could be important for a next-generation hybrid platform: seamless inclusion of the RTÉ Player app within the EPG, deep linking to catch-up viewing and box sets, accessibility features, etc. Accessibility was also a key element of the DVB-I demo from Catalonian broadcasters 3Cat on the EBU booth.

Conversations on the DVB booth and elsewhere pointed to considerable interest and activity among TV set vendors in integrating DVB-I clients in future models. Vestel has up to now been the primary supplier of TV sets for demonstrations and trials, having DVB-I compliant sets available on the market in several European countries already. It seems likely that Vestel will soon be joined by several other manufacturers, which would in turn provide a greater incentive to those interested in launching services.

https://dvb.org/news/ibc2024-dvb-i-and-dvb-native-ip-ready-for-prime-time/

Saorview demonstrates DVB-I capability

Ireland’s DTT platform, Saorview, is working towards a public trial of a hybrid platform featuring DVB-I.

Its latest iteration that was demonstrated at last week’s IBC 2024 event in Amsterdam includes deep linking to the RTÉ Player app within the EPG. It means viewers can enter and leave the Player environment without the waiting time often associated with such apps. It’s also possible to link shows from the EPG to their place in the RTE Player library.

It’s anticipated a closed trial will be followed by a later public trial, in Ireland, of the technology.

The DVB-I standard is the internet-centric mechanism to signal and discover television services, whether they are delivered over IP networks or broadcast networks.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2024/09/20/saorview-demonstrates-dvb-i-capability/

with thanks to butwhynot and Gordon Maynard Director, OnScreen Publishing (Linkdin)

DVB-I for Saorview: a proof of concept demonstrating the user benefits that can be gained by implementing DVB-I on Ireland’s DTT network, showing hybrid channels, an enhanced content guide, deep linking, boxed sets and easy access to the RTÉ Player

Gordon Maynard Director, OnScreen Publishing (Linkdin)

Who is testing DVB-I?

SERVICES – DVB-I

NEWS – DVB-I

DVB-I and the future of television distribution - DVB

Is DVB-I about to save public service media? | IBC

Ireland’s free-to-air platform Saorview is running a second DVB-I PoC as part of a wider examination of what a next- generation hybrid broadcast–broadband platform should look like. Jim Higgins, Brand Compliance and Business Development Manager, says: “We want to stay with our audience and serve them where they are with something they are familiar with. DVB-I is a technology that allows a continuity of universal access and prominence, and gives broadcasters the ability to reach audiences in a competitive landscape.”

DVB-I demo at IBC - 2024

thanks to butwhynot for the link

Jim Higgins, Brand Compliance and Business Development Manager at Saorview, published an article in the December edition of the EBU's tech-i magazine on RTÉ DVI-I testing and their future plans

Preparing for the next generation of free television services in Ireland | EBU Technology & Innovation

EBU tech-i 062 | EBU Technology & Innovation

We have built a proof of concept for the purpose of evaluating the potential of DVB-I and are continuing to develop it following its showing on the DVB Project’s booth at IBC2024 in Amsterdam. Subject to approval we hope to launch a small-scale trial in early 2025.

A number of stages remain in the development of a Saorview next-generation offering. We need to engage with regulators, our viewers, and channel and content partners. Engagement with TV set manufacturers in the roll-out of a DVB-I based offering is crucial to the success of its eventual adoption among Irish TV households. As members of the EBU’s TV Platforms Group, we were happy to meet with several manufacturer representatives at IBC2024 to discuss the roll-out of DVB-I in Ireland and other markets

Great, thanks for the link.

I see from the IBC video Onscreen Publishing are one of the providers for the Saorview testing.

Canal+ and sister channels leaving DTT in France.

BBC unsure of extending its Freeview licences .

Looking like the future for DTT is streaming.

It doesn't matter if this doesn't make sense - the factors driving this are 1) Lure of targeted adverts within streams 2) Broadcasters catching up with Netflix/Disney+/Prime Video to attract audiences.

Younger folk don't care about satellite dishes, aerials and most linear TV (except for sport and major broadcast events). They want everything on an app. in their room or apartment. Now, that can be an official streaming app. - or a dodgy box. They really don't care. Broadcasters need to catch up and get in on the game. Otherwise, it's financial hardship for them.

It's possible to do "Broadcast" on the ISPs, but home routers and most ISPs can't. So even if 4 people in a house are watching the same thing at the same time, that's 4 streams back to a server somewhere. And if you want VOD, then you can't have broadcast. Then at home the WiFi needs a separate connection for each client. Technically there are solutions (and the Wifi would need to share with broadcast channels. Makes no difference to capacity if DVB-T or IP UDP Unicast).

Netflix only works and makes a slight profit due to "pressuring" the ISPs to host servers. The capacity of those is why the "long tail" of VOD never materialised. Apart from "rights" issues and payment of royalties etc.

Streaming and Broadcast can do different things. Some of the Broadcasters know streaming can't replace DVB-T for Broadcast content and their intention is that the mass market uses Satellite. It's really, really cheap. One 200W transmitter covers the nation and the dishes are someone elses's problem, or wanted for Pay TV sport anyway.

Freesat is a sort of scam that hardly exists elsewhere because you pay for the Satellite bandwidth and being on a proprietary EPG that isn't supported by £40 / €50 satboxes. So BBC could ditch Freesat licence and still be on Satellite for less than cost of the top tier of presenters. I don't know why they did Freesat instead of the free generic solutions. They didn't need it for so called "Interactive" / "red button" either. Sky listings for FTA channels are massively overpriced (charge to be on EPG) because it actually benefits Sky!

Perfectly valid points, though the average Joe in Germany, Switzerland, Turkey etc. seem to have no bother using generic DVB-S(2) receivers that the local channels use the DVB 7 day EPG standard, not to mention that both the Saorview & Freeview platforms do the same i.e. use the DVB EPG standards to supply EPG data beyond now/next, and that this info is displayed in various different fashions depending on receiver software, with most people able to cope with them.

However, the advantages are there with keeping a single display standard for a broadcasting platform.

Freesat boxes are more expensive and more limited than others, sometimes the same hardware. A Humax we had would not even record manually on non-Freesat and you had to do a "magic" button sequence to setup Diseqc and use other channels. At the time I read that it was conditions of the Freesat licencing, and I'd be amazed if box/TV makers don't pay a royalty to Freesat/Everyone TV.

That was the last Freesat box we bought. All our Sky boxes long gone, totally crippled for FTA. Some of the German stations have no trouble doing a multiday EPG. The "Interactive"/Red Button is almost pointless now on Freesat and extra channels via it might as well be extra channels as they are on our cheap Generic boxes. A Edison combo Terrestrial box is 1/2 the price of a Freesat box with HDD built in and works with 4 way or motor Diseqc. Records on USB HDD or USB stick which plays back on VLC on Windows, Linux or Android. The Sony TV wanted to encyrpt the USB storage and use it entirely for the TV. We've also used Redline and Mirae sat only boxes. Cheap enough on the Multisat switch to have a couple dedicated to radio, and then adaptor cables and PSU for the €6 to €12 CE FM transmitters intended for phone/MP3 on a car radio. Two or three satellite radio stations on any FM radio in the house or garden.

If a movie (or series not on FTA) is good enough we'll buy the DVD/BD. We got fibre eventually, I wouldn't waste money on subscription streaming, apart from the privacy issue that they know what you watch and for how long. The invasion of privacy and monetising of it is why Broadcasters want streaming. It doesn't make them more competitive. Decent content is what makes a platform competitive. RTE should spend a 1/10th of what they do on overpriced Presenters and excess middle management and make decent programs. You can't be competitive buying in US / UK stuff, or producing reality TV and soaps.

DVB-I will do nothing for RTE.

Internet for video has LESS coverage than Terrestrial. It's fantasy.

Won't be too long now until fibre gigabit internet is practically universal in Ireland.

Multicast isn't supported by most ISPs.

We should have had a decent Fibre plan twenty years ago. Instead Three was subsidised. It will be decades before fibre reaches terrestrial TV penetration.

Most home routers don't do multicast.

WiFi uses a separate connection for each user, so even if it did multicast, 5 users splits the speed per user to 1/5th. Maybe there is a WiFi spec that includes broadcast mode, which is the sane way to do "multicast" on any RF system. DVB-T could be used.

Fibre is even more a fixed delivery than satellite. DVB-T can be portable, works with a sub €20 USB stick on my phone and tablet. DVB-H isn't needed now as phones or tablets can easily do full DVB-T now. Some still do FM radio. I did see a phone handset once with DVB-H, maybe in 2007, at a trade show..