2024-25 Carabao Cup

Well done Newcastle. Best not to win any more trophies for another while. The red clubs don't like it - even if you have history of winning stuff in the past.

I would say the vas majority of "red club" (nonsense name) were cheering for Newcastle yesterday

Like they were when Man City won the FA Cup in 2011, breaking a 35 year wait. But as soon they gained momentum, things changed.

Well that's not true, I'm not a Liverpool supporter. What's happening at Newcastle is no different to Chelsea, Man City, PSG et al. Give it time.

and Shearer too

The same point is being made; just gave you another example. Most people (particularly red club fans i.e. Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United) won’t begrudge a sleeping club winning a trophy after a long absence. But if they threaten the established order & win MORE, they’ll soon change their tune. My first post said “best not to win ANY MORE trophies”.

What is KSA?

Ah yes! Beautiful country.

Yes, Saudi were doing Liverpool a favour. Of course. That’s what the Saudi pro league is for. I’m sorry to have forgotten that.

This seems like a very deflective response. Do you not think KSA actively seeks to do business with big clubs to gain credibility and ‘clean’ their image? And if a club with Liverpool’s reputation and influence is happy to do business with them, doesn’t that only reinforce the legitimacy they’re after?

I’m curious, where exactly would you draw the line at benefiting from Saudi Arabia’s dirty money?

I mean, it's all fckin filthy. The whole footballing world took a big step down a bad road when first Chelsea (heavy Russian state influence), and then more directly Man City, PSG, and Newcastle ownerships (actual barefaced politically motivated state ownerships) were allowed. It puts the footballing ecosystem in a terrible position — the powers that be 'took the soup', leaving clubs in the impossible position of either effectively folding in order to not deal with a fundamentally corrupted system, or just hold their noses and try to enact mitigating processes (like PSR etc) where possible.

It's all stuff that makes the whole thing feel a lot less emotionally engaging and important, and makes ya feel just a bit sick and disillusioned if ya think about it for more than a few minutes. And I say that with my team on the cusp of winning the bloody league. The kid in me will still be delighted in ways for sure, especially in those short term moments of experiencing it all, but also a huge part of me is now just always a bit heartbroken by the whole bloody ever-increasing farce and cynicism of top tier football.

100%, got dicey a couple of years back with Qatar government apparently circling. Liverpool look like a good investment right now

In fairness, Liverpool fans were very critical of both Steven Gerrard and Jordan Henderson moving there, they directed anger at those players rather than the club or the foreign player they sold there (Fabinho)

I don't think it was burying head in the sand, moreso that criticism was focused on the players themselves.

Fabinho was £40m, sold to his old manager Nuno Espirito Santo (who everybody now thinks is great at Forest and don't care about his Saudi days) and Henderson was £12m, sold to his old teammate Gerrard. That's what the Sauid's did, installed the managers first and then had them attract the players they used to work with. Those managers aren't without blame either.

I honestly hadn't thought before about the morality of the club taking that money for those 2 players but I certainly remember criticising their personal decisions. I don't think it was completely ignored, just didn't occur at the time to focus criticism of the club.

I think the prevailing thinking was that you'd expect better of the likes of Gerrard and Henderson, particularly the latter who was such a vocal supporter of LGBT rights and the rainbow laces campaign as captain. Fabinho less criticism because it wasn't obvious that the same hypocrisy was present, but I definitely take your point well made that we should have also criticised the club for selling him there. I do wonder though if it's a bit of a LIV golf scenario where the player and the agent wanted the bag and would have rejected staying in Europe but that's speculation, the whole thing is messy and abhorrent regardless.

Then Henderson leaves after a year which opened him up to even more criticism from Liverpool fans, many think he's completely tarnished his legacy

Here are the facts, my wife and daughter would be 2nd class citizens in that country. I don’t care if Liverpool sell them players. The fact you are holding that up as some sort of equivalency is nonsense. Liverpool don’t have to welcome these people to the stadium, go on training camps there, wear green and white kits, promote a regime that murders journalists, and be used to give them a veil of legitimacy. So what, they sell them players. There a world of difference between that and being owned by a country that trampled on human rights.

Yeah Newcastle fans made it very clear they were on board to be the tool of a sports washing machine so long as their team became good.

Their choice obviously but you can't start crying then when nobody respects the achievements.

It like there are 2 bowlers side by side - one has the gutter guards up and one doesn't. First bowler is throwing a strop when nobody congratulates him for out scoring the guy with the guards down.

And can't wrap their heads around why people are more impressed when the 2nd guy scores well and wins