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What do i do if tenant won't leave at end of lease?

  • 06-04-2025 03:23PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4


    Hi All,

    I am renting an apartment in Dublin myself (no agency) to a couple of students. It is RTB registered.

    Lease is up on 1st May. I'm pretty sure at least one of the students would like to stay longer (as Graduation is not until June and they not starting work until later in Summer). They are non Irish. What has me slightly worried is that student has not responded to two texts, a phone call and an email over the last couple weeks. This makes me suspicious as she was always highly responsive at the start of lease.

    Question is what can a landlord do here - if the lease is up, can i go in, open the door on the 1st May and demand they leave?

    Thanks

    MB



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Speak to a lawyer.

    But seriously, if they've been there more than 6 months, the lease is pretty much irrelevant.

    Post edited by Mrs OBumble on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭meijin


    What do you mean by "end of the lease"? did you give them notice of termination?

    Otherwise after 6 months the tenancy is really of indefinite length, until you terminate it according to regulations.

    I doubt you have it registered as Student Specific Accommodation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Lease means nothing once they are there over 6 months. They have rights now and if you want them to leave then you will have to give them the proper notice, in the proper way and for proper reasons, by law.

    Is there any reason you wouldn't let them stay on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Raichų


    no you certainly cannot just walk in on the 1st of may and demand they leave. Have you given written notice even?

    OP, advise you contact a solicitor or letting agent before you walk yourself into serious trouble here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 Jim Cryton


    Utterly bizarre that the landlord must issue a Notice of Termination when the lease end date is specified on the lease the tenant signed. Is there any other area of law where the contract is still considered valid after the end date specified on the contract.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Is there any other area of law where the power imbalance between the parties to the contract is so large? Nope.

    Seriously- get proper legal advice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 Jim Cryton


    Yes i agree - the power seems to be completely with the tenant! Apparently "overholding" is a thing too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Utterly bizzarerrreeere is the fact that someone would rent out a property without being aware of all the legalities surrounding it!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,416 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Or without consulting a lawyer before renting out their multi-hundred thousand euro asset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    For how long have they been renting your apartment? Could you text them you are dropping by for a chat?

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭DubCount


    You need to get over the idea that residential property letting is just a matter of an agreement between 2 adults where both parties can set out the basis of the contract and what their expectations and obligations are. Maybe in the good old days, thats the way it worked, but not any more. There is a raft of legislation which over-rides any agreement you might have, or any lease that you have both signed.

    You cannot just walk in and change the locks because there is a lease with an end date. Any mistakes you make will cost you a large amount of money when your tenant brings you to the RTB. A number of posts have suggested involving a solicitor - that is the only way forward if you dont want to make an expensive mistake.

    You may not agree with the system we have, but you have to play the game by the rules, even if the rules are unfair and bizarre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭geographica


    Genuine question, why mention that they aren’t Irish?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,664 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Is there any other area of law where the power imbalance between the parties to the contract is so large? Nope.

    Employer /employee?

    OP, you need to be careful how you handle this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭JayRoc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Why do you want them to move out OP?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭reclose


    Maybe he thinks the tenant will have less options at finding alternative accommodation.
    No family here etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭endofrainbow


    Or maybe not familiar with the law regarding tenancies. I know of a 3 agencies who only rent to non-EU, in the hopes that if a dispute arises, they'll have left country and won't pursue it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,413 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yeah, employment law. An employer can't get around the unfair dismissal, etc, legislation by retaining someone on a series of fixed-term contracts, and the expiry of a fixed term contract can be challenged (in the right circumstances) as an unfair dismissal.

    In both cases, the reason for this treatment is the one Mrs O'Bumble points to — disparity of power between the parties to the contract, plus the signfificance of the subject-matter of the contract to the weaker party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Fishdoodle


    The positives:

    Your tenants have paid rent/billsto date with no arrears. (Im presuming).

    The lease should stipulate your entitlement to inspect the property with due notice, at an agreeable time … hopefully it’s in good order. (You would have an idea of this already I presume?) This would give an opportunity to speak with them.

    Perhaps you’d be willing to renew the lease?

    I’d focus on communication, surely you have contact details for the other tenants? You won’t have a clear idea of the situation until you talk to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,796 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    It’s over 20 years since the RTA introduced Part 4 rights which are basically rolling periods of occupancy irrespective of any written lease agreement.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭dennyk


    No, you can't end their tenancy simply because their fixed term lease ends. As they have been in the property for more than six months, they now have a Part 4 tenancy of unlimited duration, and their tenancy can only be ended for certain allowable reasons. Citizens Information has a good overview of the various permissible reasons to end a tenancy. If none of the listed reasons apply, then you can't terminate the tenancy.

    If one of the listed reasons does apply, you must issue a valid notice of termination in writing (not via email or text) and also submit a copy to the RTB. The notice must follow a very specific format and include specific supporting documentation depending on the reason. You would be well advised to use the appropriate sample notice of termination from the RTB as a template, as getting anything wrong in the notice will usually render it invalid and will mean you'll have to issue a brand new notice, which resets the clock on the notice period.

    Keep in mind you must abide by the notice periods as well. If you serve notice before their first year is up, the notice period would be 152 days at this stage, so you won't be getting them out before September regardless. If you don't issue the notice until after they've been there a year, it's 180 days. You can issue a notice of termination while the fixed term lease is still ongoing as long as the effective date of the termination is after the end of that fixed term.

    If the tenant does overhold even after being served valid notice, you can't simply "walk into the property and demand they leave"; that would be an illegal eviction and will result in hefty monetary penalties for you in the end. You must go through the full process, which will involve first going to the RTB to get a determination order and then going through the courts to get an order of enforcement. Each will have multiple stages, will likely take many months each, and will likely result in the tenant being given some additional time to voluntarily vacate, so in the end the process could potentially take a couple years or more. Be prepared for a long and expensive fight, and when the tenant eventually stops paying rent (as usually happens once things become acrimonious), chances are you'll never see that money from them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Quick question : If a tenant overstays a 5 month lease and will not leave and a month has passed while trying to get them out, do they now have a Part 4 tenancy of unlimited duration ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,413 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    So long as the tenant receives a valid notice of termination before the six months expires, no.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭boardsdotie44


    Why are ppl so quick to judge and advise certain individuals should not be landlords?

    Do you not think the housing crisis is bad enough without more small landlords moving out of the market?

    The government has done enough damage by introducing massively unfair legislation resulting in alot of small landlords leaving, exasperating the issue?

    Why dont ppl not argue for more fair, straightforward laws, other than the truly obscure, one sided laws we currently have? Its not the landlords fault how things are!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Fishdoodle


    It seems to me that the rights are disproportionately skewed towards tenants.

    Landlord:
    A neighbour of mine (retired) is unable to evict a tenant who is claiming ownership on his rental property. He was very reasonable over covid, and hasn’t increased the rent in years (far below the market rate). When he attempted to increase the rent the tenant wasn’t having it and will not allow him to enter the property or carry out maintenance to the outside. He’s at his wits end.

    Tenant:

    A friend of mine moved from a top spec apartment with her sister. Gave notice but informed letting company that she’d rather leave in 3 weeks Left it in pristine condition. The letting agency company (who own the complex) commented how clean it was. However charged extra for ‘time to get new tenants’ without the month notice. Few minor marks on wall behind hobs -wiping the paint wore paint off (incorrect spec paint for kitchen). Agent said the whole kitchen would need a repaint. Long story short, they moved out …new tenants moved in 3 days later. Agent kept €600 deposit. Plus inconvenience costs for 3 €1800 , plus (there were three living there) Robbery.

    Post edited by Fishdoodle on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    If you're talking to me, the reason I said the OP shouldn't be a landlord is that they are so deliberately obtuse as to say "the lease is, like, up...so I can just enter MY property and turf out my tenants…right?"

    If you haven't bothered to acquaint yourself with the the absolute basics, the rules that anyone who's ever read a newspaper knows, then, no...you shouldn't be a landlord.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,413 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I'm not sure that your second story supports your claim that "rights are disproportionately skewed towards tenants".

    As to the first story, you don't say why the landlord has been unable to evict the tenant. Has a court refused to grant an eviction order? But you do say that the tenant is claiming ownership of the property. There are not many countries in the world where the courts will evict an occupier of property while the ownership of the property is in dispute; you have to resolve the ownership question first and then the eviction order follows or doesn't follow, depending on how the ownership dispute has been resolved.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭boardsdotie44


    Agree to an extent, but maybe the comment was just a show of frustration and incomprehension about the extent of control he has over his own asset!

    Be cautious over what you wish for, if more and more small landlords leave it will only make the matter worse! This issue is not going away any time soon, we need to be doing as much as possible to make it better….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Yes we do need to do more to make the rental market better but having amateurs landlord's who have no clue about legislation is not the way forward.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭boardsdotie44


    So what do you propose, get rid of all small landlords?

    Or does my suggestion of making the rules more straightforward and fairer, therefore more acceptable to landlords and easier to grasp / follow, is that not a simple step forward?

    All the government has done to date is make it worse?

    Lest we forget, small landlords are only a small % of the rental market, they are not the problem.

    On one hand ppl are saying that small landlords should treat it as a business, which would involve deciding whether it is viable to keep rented, increasing rent to the max possible etc..

    Then the other, if they did that we would be in a worse position, bigger rents, less properties available..

    Just cant win…. but for sure getting rid of small landlords is not the way forward..



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