Why am I Irish?

Boston · 21-01-2002 10:36PM

Btw sands your wrong, anybody around in the 80s can bitch about being poor and oppressed in ireland.
god they were ****e.

Ps can someone tell me how to use this ignor feature, thsi guy is starting to bug me

letal, i got it to work

Victor · 22-01-2002 12:00AM

Hmmm, this topic hurts my head ....

WhiteWashMan · 22-01-2002 12:14AM

Originally posted by Sand
White Wash- Youre being very unfriendly. Sure youre Irish?:P Youre also very hung up on being oppressed. I wasnt aware you were 800 years old? Ive the remarkable achievement for an Irishman of not being oppressed. People who go on and on about it are as bad as those maudlin cash ins about how we had it so bad in poor ol catholic 50s ireland. Both make my skin crawl.
.

why dont you give us your interesting views on life then?
did i say i was oppressed? no.
do i have anything against the english? obviously not, i live in england.
do the majority of irish people have somethign against the english?
yes
why?
because of 800 years.

you can make statements all you want, but please, make a point would you, and then back it up.
people like you make my skin crawl...

WhiteWashMan · 22-01-2002 12:28AM

im not being unfriendly by the way, i am mearly putting forward my point of view of what i belive to be true. if some one wants to shoot their mouth of at me then thats fine, but dont point at me when i lash back.

as it happens youve probably picked one of the least likely people to ever harp on about england etc. i have no problems with americans either, but if someone has a go at me, i will point out their own failures as an individual, as a commune, as a nation, whatever.

im not unfriendly, just píss me off and im not very nice.
dif you buy me a drink i will be nice though

unfortunately, some people get far too serious......

Sand · 22-01-2002 12:32AM

White, you seem to feel that Irish national identity revolves around being oppressed. Read back through your own posts. Being Irish has a lot more going for it than feeling sorry for ourselves. If the majority of Irish have anything against the English, its the negative stereotypes regarding the Irish that the English indulge in. Most Irish people look towards the present and the future in defining themselves, not to a past hundreds of years ago.

amp · 22-01-2002 12:35AM

Royth Boston royth, y'know, like, I forgot ALL about the royth.

And now, a rant:

The main reason I personally don't like the american attitude that I percieve through the media (which is all I can base my opinion on) is the both the ignorance and arrogance that comes forward from senior members of the current US government.

Ignorance of the real issues going on in the world and the arrogance that just because they are the worlds most powerful nation that everybody must like them.

However at the same time, I really enjoy a lot of stuff that comes from america. TV, movies, baseball caps, jack daniels, pepsi max and it is of course the birthplace of the internet.

Likewise I share the same dislike for the UK that most of my fellow Irish citizens share, yet I watch english telly, films read english magazines and watch english football matchs.

For me there is no such thing as a single cultural idenity present in any country. I enjoy the fruits of certain elements of both the UK and the US's culture but dislike others. I don't enjoy traditional Irish music per say, but I like it when mixed with other genres that I do like.

Therefore my own personal culture is a constantly changing thing built out of my interests in the cultural outputs from various sources regardless of what they did to my ancestors or wether they are descendents of my ancestors.

I must take the point that the Irish are "being godd*mn proud of being Irish in a sort of pathetic, sarcastic way. "

Sarcastic most definitely, as there is a subculture of trolling on these boards to which sometimes new people have a bit of trouble adjusting to (and some of our longer residents too).

And yes I am goddamned proud of this countries history, we fought for hundreds of years against a very powerful enemy and won our freedom. It took us a bit longer than the states but we still did it. And to me that is anything but pathetic.

[normal amp service resumed]

I LOIKES CAKE!

WhiteWashMan · 22-01-2002 10:36AM

Originally posted by Sand
White, you seem to feel that Irish national identity revolves around being oppressed. Read back through your own posts. Being Irish has a lot more going for it than feeling sorry for ourselves. If the majority of Irish have anything against the English, its the negative stereotypes regarding the Irish that the English indulge in. Most Irish people look towards the present and the future in defining themselves, not to a past hundreds of years ago.

unfortunately youre talking to completely the wrong person.
i may consider myself irish and i am proud fo ireland, but i personally dont waste time thinking about years of british rule. nor do i have the same dislike for the english that many irish have.
my points were made on a general irish viewpoint in that regard, and you cannot keep a straight face and tell me that the majority of irish people dont dislike the english. and you cant tell me that 800 years of oppression by a foreign rule in this country has not had an effect?

to quote monty python,

what have the romans ever given us?

Jaden · 22-01-2002 03:52PM

What? Amp with intelligent comments in a post? What is the world coming to?

Other threads may not mind well conctructed Amp posts, but this one is having none of it. If you're going to post here, there do so with your normal brand of witty spam, if you don't mind.

True Story:

Malta, 1999. It's 2:00pm, roasting hot outside, and I'm in an Irish pub, drinking bad Guinness. There's about 20 other people in with me, scattered about, minding their own business. Half of them are locals, the rest are a collection of tourists.

I'm sitting up at the bar (like a true Irishman), idly flicking through the newspaper, waiting for the rest of my party to come back from whatever sad beach-related activity there were up to. I'm a bit bored, so I do what any Irishman would do, - I start a conversation with the bloke sitting further down the bar from me.

It turns out he's an Ozzie. His name is Alex, and he's sound. We have another beer together, and chat about this and that. We're having a laugh when we're joined by two german blokes who've been drinking down at a table near us. They join in. Now Germans are a dour bunch, but to be honest, I've met very few who weren't at least a bit a craic after a few beers. So the fours of us are having a beer and a laugh. Football comes up as a topic of conversation. Alex the Ozzie thinks we mean the kind played with a rugby ball. We correct him. The two Germans (the more conversational of the two is called Leif, I forget the others name) proclaim that Germany is the greatest footballing nation ever. At this point we are interupted by a french guy (and his girlfriend) who disagrees. They grab a pair of stools, and join us.

It's a merry little group now, and it isn't long until a scottish guy, who's girlfriend has just left to lie down for a while, wanders over to see what's going on. We talk about music, we talk more on football, we rant on a bit about Europe, and a bit about the states. Six 'O Clock rolls on, and it's time to be going. I grab my bag, and raise my glass.

I proclaim, in my best slur-free tone: "We may all come from different countries, and have alot of different opinions on different subjects, but there is one things that binds everybody here together."

I get a slightly puzzled look from the rest of the group.

"We all hate the English!".

The roar back was deafening. One last clink of glasses, I skull my pint, make my farewells, and depart.

Moral of this tale is thus. Disliking the English may be considered a facet of Irish culture, but it's not just an Irish thing. Everybody hates the English.

Ser · 22-01-2002 04:08PM

im confused as to 'what i am help me?'

lol,

all my family are irish and born there (crowley). but i was born in london, and dont sound irish, i have a english passport, and a irish one too. i hate guiness. i lived there (EIRE) for 4 years though. what does this make me...?

Ser · 22-01-2002 04:10PM

oh i also noticed being back here, english actualy do hate everyone, dunno why.

Jak · 22-01-2002 04:18PM

What is it to be Irish?

I have to say nothing. Nor is any nationality a guarantee of any particular character attributes or flaws whatsoever.

While I look at my own set of friends and say, well to be Irish means *Insert list of fantastic qualities*, I usually don't have to look very far before I meet or see some complete halfwit with as much claim to the Irish tag as myself.

While there are certain qualities a certain culture and environment can bring out in the majority of a local population, I would be averse to proclaiming my Irishness if it was supposed to give me some strong personality link to the many many gob****es that roam so freely in our streets.

Cheers,

JayK.

ps- this must be my first post in 6 months or something.

Zero · 22-01-2002 04:39PM

About 30 posts ago WWMan made a huge rant in response to the supposed "intellectual" american. I more or less agree with everything he said, saves me going back and finding it and quoting it.

There is no "set" criteria for being Irish, I myself am totally Irish as far back as can be traced, as for people who claim to be Irish, blah, who cares, a 6foot black guy who bummed a smoke off me in a suburb of boston claimed to be Irish and shook my hand, leave em off, like somebody said way back when this thread made sense, be proud that people from other cultures try and associate themselves with Ireland in some way or another. This would mainly come from the US, because as Goth-girl said earlier, they are a relatively new culture, the most racially-mixed place on Earth.
There are so many posts in this thread now, I can't be arsed looking back to see who exactly said what, but as regards Irish people disliking the English, yes, a large number of them do, and you could say it's with good cause. Other Irish people are indifferent to the English. Most of Europe hates England, as Rob pointed out so well. So we are not "defined" by our hatred of the English, as some yank bullsh1tted there earlier on, and we certainly don't hate americans. We might laugh constantly at them, but we don't hate them. If you're a yank, sorry for your troubles, but dont try and make out we feel inferior, because we certainly do not.

Von · 22-01-2002 05:36PM

To be Irish is to have a song in your heart, a smile on your face and a pint in your hand. Begob.

amp · 22-01-2002 07:28PM

Originally posted by Jaden
What? Amp with intelligent comments in a post? What is the world coming to?

Other threads may not mind well conctructed Amp posts, but this one is having none of it. If you're going to post here, there do so with your normal brand of witty spam, if you don't mind.

Well constructed, witty......

If I didn't know you better I'd think you were trying to get in MEH PANTS!

Seriously though there is a special card for this, called the Amp's moment of clarity. Suddenly without prior warning I get all serious and intellectual. It doesn't last long thankfully.

And I did feel dirty after posting it so I went offline and shouted "TEH TEH! I LOIKES TEH CAKE!!" for a good 10 minutes to clean myself.

Hobbes · 22-01-2002 08:12PM

Originally posted by [sk.Ser]
what does this make me...?

Welsh?

mike65 · 22-01-2002 08:22PM

Question.

Do the Irish mainly define themselves by what they are not
ie ENGLISH (as I am) or by thier own inate qualites....?

Mike.

Victor · 22-01-2002 08:35PM

Originally posted by [sk.Ser]
im confused as to 'what i am help me?'

all my family are irish and born there (crowley). but i was born in london, and dont sound irish, i have a english passport, and a
irish one too. i hate guiness. i lived there (EIRE) for 4 years though. what does this make me...?

Don't take this too seriously.

all my family are irish +1
and born there +1
(crowley) +1
but i was born in london 0
and dont sound irish -1
i have a english passport -1
and a irish one +1
too +1 (for having both)
i hate guiness 0
i lived there +1
EIRE -10 (no one evvvveeeeer says that)
for 4 years though +1
what does this make me...? +1 (for the confused Irish bit)

Overall score: -4
Harsh judgement: English of Irish descent

Now to be a little fairer: what are you in your heart and mind? Do you believe yourself to be Irish? If you do and you have the above links, then you can call yourself Irish if you wish. (you must fulfill both tests)

Sand · 22-01-2002 08:49PM

Question Do the Irish mainly define themselves by what they are not
ie ENGLISH (as I am) or by thier own inate qualites....?

Depends on who you ask Mike. Me and White seem to disagree on that very point:) Suffice to say, the UK plays very little role in my definition of myself. Interestingly enough the US seems to play a far more significant role in the political/idealogical discussions than the UK.

WhiteWashMan · 23-01-2002 12:54AM

Originally posted by Sand

Interestingly enough the US seems to play a far more significant role in the political/idealogical discussions than the UK.

only becuase no one in england goes around saying their half irish. and no one in england gives a crap if youre irish or not.

Sand · 23-01-2002 02:02AM

Thats probably true, but what I was saying was youll find far more threads revolving around the US (and why its so evil:) ) as opposed to the UK on the politics board (and here to an extent). I was just making the point that if the UK would be of more interest to us if it had such a part in defining ourselves. If anything certain Irish people, If they define themselves in negative terms at all, define themselves as "not american" as opposed to "not english" given what Ive seen on the aforementioned boards.

Ri-ra · 23-01-2002 02:37AM

Unless, of course, you're talking to one of those annoying and uneducated Americans who will say something to the effect of "Ireland? Oh yeah. That's part of Britain." When you say "No," they might go one better and say, "Oh yeah. I meant to say GREAT Britain." It annoys Canadians just as much to confuse them with Americans, in my experience.

WhiteWashMan · 23-01-2002 09:46AM

Originally posted by Ri-ra
Unless, of course, you're talking to one of those annoying and uneducated Americans who will say something to the effect of "Ireland? Oh yeah. That's part of Britain." When you say "No," they might go one better and say, "Oh yeah. I meant to say GREAT Britain." It annoys Canadians just as much to confuse them with Americans, in my experience.

could be worse, ive heard that apparently ireland is in europe.
the country of europe.
and isnt it amazing how we are able to speak american.....

Ser · 23-01-2002 02:10PM

yeh i do it to some girls at work. NZ, thats in Australia aint it?

amp · 23-01-2002 08:07PM

Norweigans hate the Swedes as well. Aparently Sweden use to control Norway some time ago.

mike65 · 24-01-2002 08:30PM

And the Portugese get uptight if you mention the Iberain
Peninsula...

Boston · 25-01-2002 02:27PM

WhiteWashMan whats the point of me puting sands on my ignor list if your going to go around quoting him.

RopeDrink · 25-01-2002 02:57PM

This is one topic that gets my goat...
[RANT]
Im proud to admit im Half English, Quarter irish and Quarter greek, but I'm not proud to admit I've been at the recieving end of some harsh treatment because of my origins.

I may have mixed origins, but It doesn't change the fact that Im a basic, self centered, negative, pesimistic nineteen year old "Basic" chap...

I don't criticise people because of their race, religion, sexuality or any other qualities, yet im not very fond of recieving stick from simple minded arrogant bastards who hate me because Im from a different country... I am, on a 2D level, English, but I didn't take part in any of the past Ireland v England conflicts that occured so why should someone who doesn't actually know me come up and call me a bastard for simply being English!?

It all comes down to people with either:
a) A brain similar in size to a fingernail.
b) People living in the past.
c) People who were brought up in a manner that would bend them towards hating certain races / religion / sexuality
d) Being a general Muppet...

I've recieved major racial remarks before, and quite frankly, I'm sick of it - One thing you don't do in my presence is criticise me for such a stupid / pathetic reason such as "YUO WEARE BOURN HEAR, YUO AER A MUEPPET!" because you prove to me, yourself, and all witnesses that you are a seriously sad, pathetic loser with no life, and you'll find yourself being thrown down the nearest flight of steps that I find...

This topic pisses me off - have a nice day.
[/RANT]

PS. Didn't get to read all the replies, so sorry if my post has no relevance...

Boston · 25-01-2002 05:32PM

RopeDrink get over it, not offence. I know exactly what your talking about, but thats the way irish schools systems are. (i persume msot of this is school based because of your age)
it little more then a country lad would get in dublin or a dublin lad in the country.

like when i went to school, there was this guy with red hair that got a huge amount of abuse because of it, but guys like me with semi red hair got non, because me jsut didnt give a ****. we got slaged about other things, but thats life. It hardens you up.

now this, i feel is what this topic is about. Im not you, maybe some stuff happened to you thats slighly more serious then slaging. Ive been there to. and it starts to mess you up when you wonder why people seem to jsut want to hurt other people.

Id never be so curd to joke about someone orgins unless i knew they coudl see the funny side. that said the same thing i migth say, if another person said it in the same company would get them a good kicking.

Generaly, i know alot of people, and view of them i would use the word hatred for discribing their actions, slightly insensitive maybe.

I hope all this ways sense, if it doesnt or you have a problem iwth any of it, drop me an email

][cEMAN** · 25-01-2002 05:58PM

Originally posted by Boston
like when i went to school, there was this guy with red hair that got a huge amount of abuse because of it, but guys like me with semi red hair got non, because me jsut didnt give a ****. we got slaged about other things, but thats life. It hardens you up.

Or gives you a basis for a massive inferiority complexe which leads in later life to lack of social skills and possibly leading to anti social behaviour on a smaller yet growing scale.

Hell, why don't we just kick our children in the head when they speak. I mean that'll toughen 'em up eh? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?

Give me 1 reason why anybody should be forced to submit to generalised bias or bullying? The fact that this kind of division goes on in schools means that as people grow up (though some catch on) a lot of people think it's just the norm and that it's OK.

Same with racist jokes etc. Some people start off thinking "Oh well I know it's bad but it's only a joke" then end up after a while of this slipping into a state where they joke too much. Or where they forget that it IS a joke.

Building a culture as you would have it, on bigotry, is NOT acceptable. Yes i'm from Northern Ireland and trust me we've got a LOT more to deal with in splits than just the north south divide or if some wish to ignore it completely.

Every day you wake to a city where wandering into the wrong street in the middle of the day could get you shot!

I know this may seem a little OTT because thankfully it's not going on as often as it did a few years back but it still happens. The fact that it happens to 1 person at all is something beyond the threshold of what is acceptable.

And why? Because parents teach childen their point of view. It passes from generation to generation the bigotry of old. You have a generation wishing we could sweep it aside, though this generation still has to face the blatent ignorance of those who would be lead by their piers.

"The sins of the father" ARE the sins of the child when the child embrases them!

I don't want to go into too much of a rant and tbh I wish my first post could have been enough...but i've seen this my whole life and I'M SICK TO FECKING DEATH OF IT!!!!

I go to dublin and I get comments of "Oh that northerner", well you think I give a flying **** about what you think? I have no time for fools and as soon as you point yourself out to me as one you can walk away as I have no time for you.

Sand · 25-01-2002 08:02PM

Rope, Youre probably best to ignore Boston - His intelligence is as impressive as his grasp of the English language (Hes got me on ignore, so he cant read it, so he cant be offended

).

As for your problems, hmmm, not to be unkind but it happens - Irish people get similar treatment in England from friends stories that Ive heard. Most people I know couldnt care less if someone was English or not, but at the same time England has never really been popular here. Theres no reason for it anymore really but its become a habit for some dopes who cant define themselves otherwise. Theres not a lot that can be done - whatever laws you pass these people will still think the same way and still pass it on to their children. Eventually, I feel optimistic that such "dislikes" will fade out, especially if backed up by positive reinforcement from parents, teachers, etc etc.

guys like me with semi red hair got non, because me jsut didnt give a ****. we got slaged about other things, but thats life. It hardens you up.

Or gives you a basis for a massive inferiority complexe which leads in later life to lack of social skills and possibly leading to anti social behaviour on a smaller yet growing scale.

So very true Iceman.

Why am I Irish?

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