Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Am I allowed to drive by myself on a First Provisional...

  • 02-12-2005 05:11PM
    #1
    dragonfly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭dragonfly


    ....if I consider myself an adequate driver and have had enough practice to do so? I'm just wondering about this as it's quite difficult to have somebody available to sit with me in a car so that I can drive anywhere and also if the waiting time for a driving test is up to a year then does this mean that any first provisional drivers drive unaccompanied? Does anyone have a firm/definitive opinion on this please?


Comments

  • #2
    Gaz25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Gaz25


    Yes that is the law and your not even ment drive on the second without someone as well. I would guess at least 80% of motorist are driving with a provisional licence.
    Unless your driving a car from ( www.barryboys.co.uk ) then your unlikely to be stoped. I've being waiting since last december for my test, so i would go out and drive cause everyone else is, but just be careful not to speed and get cocky as its coming to x-mas there will probably be a few check points for drink driving etc.

    Best of luck:)


  • #3
    The General
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭The General


    Gaz25 wrote:
    Yes that is the law and your not even ment drive on the second without someone as well. I would guess at least 80% of motorist are driving with a provisional licence.
    Unless your driving a car from ( www.barryboys.co.uk ) then your unlikely to be stoped. I've being waiting since last december for my test, so i would go out and drive cause everyone else is, but just be careful not to speed and get cocky as its coming to x-mas there will probably be a few check points for drink driving etc.

    Best of luck:)

    I asked a guard before about this, and he said when your on your 1st you need someone with you but when your on your 2nd you don't. Then when your on your 3rd 4th 5th....etc you need someone with you again


  • #4
    fjon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭fjon


    Gaz25 wrote:
    Yes that is the law and your not even ment drive on the second without someone as well.


    165,000 people in Ireland drive on provisionals - how many of those drive accompanied?
    I think if you have had a bit of practice with someone who knows what they are doing (let's say a month's worth of driving?) and have applied for your test drive alone if you feel comfortable doing so.
    You're breaking the law, but who doesn't? I read today 80% of drivers admit to speeding at some stage.
    With the absolute mess the whole driving test system is in at the moment I say if you feel you are comfortable driving alone, do so.


  • #5
    JohnCleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,205 ✭✭✭✭JohnCleary


    Simple legal answer: No

    But tbh everyone's at it!


  • #6
    Zander Grumpy Bobsled
    Posts: 0 ✭ Zander Grumpy Bobsled


    having just sat my theory test the information is fresh in my mind, you need a passenger with a full license when you're on your first, third and all subsequent provisional licenses, as is posted above.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Creamy Goodness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,584 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    Deleted User wrote:
    having just sat my theory test the information is fresh in my mind, you need a passenger with a full license when you're on your first, third and all subsequent provisional licenses, as is posted above.
    so on your second provisional you don't need a fully licenced driver?


  • #8
    fjon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭fjon


    Cremo wrote:
    so on your second provisional you don't need a fully licenced driver?

    Correct. I don't understand why you need one on your 3rd though...


  • #9
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    if ya dont have your full licence by the end of your second, your
    a crap driver and failed your test


  • #10
    Creamy Goodness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,584 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    melekalikimaka wrote:
    if ya dont have your full licence by the end of your second, your
    a crap driver and failed your test
    lol i take it you haven't tried doing your test in wicklow.


    does seem odd that you need someone on your third though, i can understand your first license but third?


  • #11
    Zander Grumpy Bobsled
    Posts: 0 ✭ Zander Grumpy Bobsled


    i'm 100% sure that that's the law.
    Don't ask why, it's best to just accept it! :D


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    Yeah, the law's not supposed to make sense!


  • #13
    John R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,106 ✭✭✭John R


    Cremo wrote:
    lol i take it you haven't tried doing your test in wicklow.

    What difference does it make where you take your test?

    Cremo wrote:
    does seem odd that you need someone on your third though, i can understand your first license but third?

    Because a provisional is to allow you to learn to drive so you can pass a test and be qualified to drive, in practically every other country the idea of people driving for years/decades without having passed a basic competency test is unheard of.


  • #14
    Rovi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    I'm not sure if it works like this in the real world, but AFAIK you're not meant to be issued a third (or subsequent) provisional unless you've attempted the test and failed. If you passed, obviously you'd be getting a full licence.
    Anyone that's managed to get through two provisionals without reaching the basic level of competence required to pass the test is going badly wrong somewhere and needs to go back to basics. Hence the accompanying fully licenced driver.


    .


  • #15
    E@gle.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭E@gle.


    fjon wrote:
    Correct. I don't understand why you need one on your 3rd though...

    to get your third provisional you need to have done a drivng test and obvivously failed it to apply for your third provisional.

    so the way they take it is that you have failed your driving test and are not a driver. load of crap imo


  • #16
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,440 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Rovi wrote:
    you're not meant to be issued a third (or subsequent) provisional unless you've attempted the test and failed

    Yep. Only in Ireland. If you have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that you are incapable of driving a car, you will be issued with a driving license :rolleyes:

    Perhaps we should only allow people to drive that have passed a test?

    Lotus Elan turbo for sale:

    https://www.adverts.ie/vehicles/lotus-elan-turbo/35456469

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #17
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    You don't state which category you are referring to but I presume it is category 'B'. The reason you do not require an accompanied full licence holder for the second licence is to encourage as many people as possible to attempt to pass early on rather than continue on a provisional licence for years. The regulation that you be accompanied on third and subsequent licence is supposed to act as a deterrent.

    As a first time learner you can legally drive on your own in categories A, A1, M and W.


  • #18
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    Not only are people on a second Provo allowed to drive alone, but drivers are never re-tested. There just aren't enough testers.

    I couldn't find anywhere with the criteria for the driving test online, but have an acquaintance who teaches people to drive, and he told me the test is now very fiddly. For instance, you'll be failed for gearing down without braking first - which would certainly nuke any chances I'd have, because I was taught that driving on your gears was safer, giving you more control, so I gear down much more often than braking.

    Oh, wait, here they are:

    http://oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/driver_theory_test.html

    (that's the theory test)

    There's a general piece on the practical test - just a paragraph or so - on the same site, but apparently there's a *lot* to it.

    I failed a driving test because I didn't put on the handbrake at traffic lights - something it's illegal to do in parts of the US!

    The actual rules on Provos are here:

    http://oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html


  • #19
    tk123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    E@gle. wrote:
    to get your third provisional you need to have done a drivng test and obvivously failed it to apply for your third provisional.

    so the way they take it is that you have failed your driving test and are not a driver. load of crap imo
    You need to have proof that you're either waiting for the test or have failed one. I got my first prov when I was 17 cos I could :rolleyes: and never learnt to drive properly, then I got a second one for ID when I was going to the States, then I had to apply for the test to get the third prov this year and I am only learning to drive on that one! :rolleyes: My test is in 3 weeks - instructor says i'll be fine but i think I'll prob fail!


  • #20
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    luckat wrote:

    "I was taught that driving on your gears was safer, giving you more control, so I gear down much more often than braking."

    When I was learning to drive a truck I was told to remember the following:

    "gears to go - brakes to slow".


  • #21
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    Hmm, read a bit about the gears-to-go-brakes-to-slow concept and actually it sounds sensible.

    Poor old Princess Di died when her driver tried to gear down to increase speed and got stuck in neutral, as far as I remember.

    There doesn't seem to be any *advanced* driving test in Ireland - which would probably do more to improve general driving than anything else, because people would get all competitive about putting a sticker on their car to show they'd passed!

    However, I found this in Norn Irn: http://www.advancedmotorists-ni.co.uk/


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    johnnyrotten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭johnnyrotten


    Q. Am I allowed to drive by myself on a First Provisional...

    A. No.


  • #23
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    Don't think your correct on the Princess Di story. The car was an S class Merc (S 320 ?) which is available in auto only. If the driver floored the pedal it would kick down two gears instantly.


  • #24
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    Oh, that's odd! I remember reading that the car was in neutral, and there was conjecture that the driver had tried to gear down. In the inquest report, as far as I remember. Hmmm.


  • #25
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    Gearbox in neutral or gearstick in neutral? There is a difference. It could have resulted from the impact or by driver unless he died instantly?.


  • #26
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    I think the reports in the papers just said the car was in neutral.

    http://www.iam.org.uk/Advancedtest/ for taking the Institute of Advanced Motorists advanced driving test - but unfortunately it's a British thing.

    It would be a really good thing to bring in an Irish version, with a sticker for your car if you pass it. Make expertise in driving something to compete for.


  • #27
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,676 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Luckat, both IAM and RoSPA operate in the Republic. They're a lot more popular among motorcyclists than car drivers. RoSPA require 3-yearly retesting, IAM don't.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #28
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Cremo wrote:
    lol i take it you haven't tried doing your test in wicklow.


    does seem odd that you need someone on your third though, i can understand your first license but third?
    you are looking at it the wrong way. The logic behind having someone experienced [and qualified] with you when on 1st & 3rd provisionals is fine. Its the logic of the unaccompanied allowance under the 2nd provisional that confuses me!
    John R wrote:
    What difference does it make where you take your test?
    There shouldnt be any but seemingly there are big differences between some of the counties pass rates - Wicklow = 44.7% Vs Birr 64.7%
    See www.drivingtest.ie/drivingtest/HTMLContent/passrates.html


  • #29
    PTL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 253 ✭✭PTL


    if youve about 3-4 months left on your first provisional and loose it and report it would the next provisional be your second or just get another provisional till march-april 2006 again?


  • #30
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Learners here can drive home unaccompanied after failing a driving test if they are on their second provisional. People in other EU countries think this is madness.

    But yet they feel "victimised" because they aren't allowed drive unaccompanied from day one or allowed drive on a motorway at 120kmph.

    In every other EU country you aren't allowed out on your own unless you have passed a test. Up North even if you have passed a test there are restrictions for the first year like a top speed of 45mph. It's because drivers need to gain experiance whereas down here a learner can do 60mph day one. Also up North R plate conditions are enforced. ( IIRC R drivers are also banned from motorways, but I can't find a link on an official site )

    http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/drivers/learndrive_Rplates.htm
    Driver and Vehicle Licensing Northern Ireland
    ‘R’ Plate Rules

    After passing the driving test for a motor car or motorcycle, you must display amber ‘R’ plates for a period of one year from the date of passing the test.

    The plates MUST conform to legal specifications and MUST be clearly visible to others from in front of the vehicle and from behind. Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a restricted driver.

    The maximum permitted speed for any vehicle displaying R plates is 45 mph, irrespective of whether or not the vehicle is being driven by a restricted driver.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    and you need L-plates no matter what provis licence.
    The trick is not to look like a muppet and not seem to be getting smart when your stoped and you will get away with no full licenced driver being with you.
    That bit of law is rarely inforced and is mainly used when the muppet with no tax starts to get smart and try lie his way out of getting a bollocking to "punish" him further.


  • #32
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ficus wrote:
    i remember when i was on my second privisional. i had been driving for over a year and was waiting for my test to come up. i was stopped at a checkpoint late at night very close to my house. i was driving by myself as i usually did as nobody in my family could drive. the garda asked to see my liciense and had a good hum and haw over it and then asked me to pull to the side of the road. i was asked to turn off the engine and step out of the car. he asked to see all the identification i had on me and i showed him all the cards i had in my wallet. he again asked why i didnt have any full liciense holder in the car with me i and i told him again that i was the only person who could drive in my family. he then went off to his squad car to check there were no other driving licienses regestered to my address, (i didnt think they had that info readily available to them?). at the end of it all, he said that my story had checked out but that i was breaking the law. after another hum and haw, he said he would let me off with a caution. this whole event took about 25 minutes by the roadside and it scared me sh1tless.
    so be ready to explain yourself if you do get stopped.
    Given that you are learning to drive and you have probably read the rules of the road, you would be aware that an accompanied licenced driver is not needed when you are on your 2nd provisional!


  • #33
    Bluetonic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=319347


  • #34
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ficus wrote:
    thats what i thought but he said no and that because it had a code of 999 on the back, that meant i had to have a fully liciensed driver with me.
    What code?
    I still have my old 2nd provisional here and looking at it, there is room for endorsements, room for additional info and then blood/organ donor details. Where was your 999 put and by whom?
    The garda was talking crap!


  • #35
    Boggle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Boggle


    Up North even if you have passed a test there are restrictions for the first year like a top speed of 45mph. It's because drivers need to gain experiance whereas down here a learner can do 60mph day one.
    Unfortunately, we couldn't do the same here as if every "First Year Driver" was only allowed 45mph then the single lane roads that we enjoy would be chocked with tailbacks which would more than likely increase driver fatalities due to people overtaking out of desperation...

    It might be better to enforce an R or a P plate that forces you off the road after a certain hour (10pm?) for your first year or 2 in order to reduce the amount killed in the early hours. (Perhaps even increasing the driving age to 18 as our roads are possibly too dangerous for immature drivers..?!)

    I might even go so far as to redsrict the amount of passengers to 1 person to stop kids flyin around with their mates in the back and actin the prick. I'm not bein a killjoy - rather I don't see th car as a toy for kids to play with.


  • #36
    Bluetonic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    kbannon wrote:
    The garda was talking crap!

    No you are.

    http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/provisional/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1837#codes

    Certain additional information or restrictions relating to the holding of a driving licence or provisional driving licence may be noted on a licence in coded format.

    The codes that may be noted on driving licences are as follows:-

    01


    Must wear corrective lenses

    02


    Must wear hearing aid

    03


    Limb prosthesis/orthesis.

    10


    Modified transmission

    15


    Modified clutch

    20


    Modified accelerator system

    25


    Modified braking system

    30


    Modified combined braking and accelerator system

    35


    Modified control layouts

    40


    Modified steering

    42


    Modified rear-view mirrors

    43


    Modified driving seat

    45


    Motorcycle with sidecar only

    70


    Exchange of recognised driving licence

    71


    Duplicate licence

    73


    Restricted to category B vehicles of motor tricycle/quadricycle type

    78


    Restricted to vehicles with automatic transmission

    100


    Restricted to vehicles adapted to suit disability of licensee

    101


    Renewal subject to submission of valid medical report

    102


    Diplomatic licence

    991


    1st provisional licence in category

    992


    2nd provisional licence in category

    993


    3rd or subsequent provisional licence in category

    999


    Must be accompanied by qualified driver


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    declanoneill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 351 ✭✭declanoneill


    It is there, I remember seeing the 999 on the first provisonal, on the second provisional it'd saying (afaik) 991


  • #38
    declanoneill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 351 ✭✭declanoneill


    Damn your nimble fingers bluetonic!


  • #39
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    Ya need L-plates and a fully licenced driver with you on 1st provisional,
    Ya don't need a fully licenced driver with you on 2nd provisional but do need L-plates,
    And subsequint licences are as the 1st.


  • #40
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Can we sticky questions about provisionals ?

    TBH when you applied for your first provisional you signed a legal document stating you have read and understood the rules of the road etc.

    If you have to ask then IMHO you are just showing contempt for the right to life of other road users. If you don't know the basics you should not drive.

    Eg: Are you aware that motorists are third class road users and as such have to yield to pedistarians and cyclists where no other rule of presidence applies ???

    In Norn Iorn you aren't allowed to drive over 45mph until one year after you have a full license.

    Actually loved the bit about
    dragonfly wrote:
    ....if I consider myself an adequate driver
    in almost every country the decision is not yours - it's up to the licensing authourity. And IMHO almost every learner overestimates their ability. CBA diging up the survey that shows that only 13% or something of Irish drivers consider themselves below average, when by definition it should be a lot nearer 50%

    As for the waiting list - moan at the politicians


  • #41
    vector
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭vector


    It seems to me that if you want to drive unaccompied then the thing to do is get your first provisional as soon as you hit 17, even if you don't have access to a car, just burn off the 2 years, and then when you are 19 get a second provisional and drive around


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,472 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    vector wrote:
    It seems to me that if you want to drive unaccompied then the thing to do is get your first provisional as soon as you hit 17, even if you don't have access to a car, just burn off the 2 years, and then when you are 19 get a second provisional and drive around
    Which is well a practised skill in the rural areas. Even I was guilty of this all those years ago.


  • #43
    Spitfire666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Spitfire666


    vector wrote:
    It seems to me that if you want to drive unaccompied then the thing to do is get your first provisional as soon as you hit 17, even if you don't have access to a car, just burn off the 2 years, and then when you are 19 get a second provisional and drive around

    Or you could just drive around anyway because if thats the only offence your committing and your not acting the prat when you get stopped you WILL get away with it 90% of the time with normal garda.Its only the Traffic boys that you should worry when they stop you.


  • #44
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,676 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The judges tend to ignore provisional licence rules anyway.
    One of the major problems for bikers at the moment is that little kn*ckers on mopeds are carrying passengers even though provisional licences prohibit this. When they crash, we all pay.
    Problem is that the judges view this as a minor offence, typically €100 fine even though they are driving unlicensed by breaking the terms of their provisional. A pillion passenger claim from one of these guys could go to a million euro or more and the law-abiding riders pay the price :mad:

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #45
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ninja900 wrote:
    One of the major problems for bikers at the moment is that little kn*ckers on mopeds are carrying passengers even though provisional licences prohibit this.
    That's not fair. Only 90% of pillion passengers who make a claim are illegally carried.


  • #46
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Bluetonic wrote:
    No you are.

    http://www.transport.ie/roads/licensing/provisional/index.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1837#codes
    So I am!

    Why then was this placed on Ficus's 2nd provisional and was he aware of the reasons?


  • #47
    Car Mad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Car Mad


    dont mind having a fully liscenced driver with you no body does + most people on a first provional may be out of college and need it for work wat u going to do 24 year old: ma i have to go to work and cant drive by myself will u come with me.this country is a joke i mean it,


  • #48
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Car Mad wrote:
    dont mind having a fully liscenced driver with you no body does + most people on a first provional may be out of college and need it for work wat u going to do 24 year old: ma i have to go to work and cant drive by myself will u come with me.this country is a joke i mean it,
    If you are old enough to drive, then you are old enough to vote. So hassle your local TD about it. The ONLY problem here is that it takes far too long to do the test. If it took 3 weeks like most other countries then no one could try to excuse their not having a full license. It's a political issue, not a technical one.

    Also if you are old enough to drive, you may also be old enough to learn about punctuation.


Advertisement