(Limit Holdem) - Hiding Your hand in the Blinds

Culchie · 01-02-2006 03:24PM #1

I'm a bit way through Annie Dukes DVD (which is so far very very good, although the dividers between chapters in excruciating painful, sort of candid camera drum roll etc..).

One of the bits of advice I've picked up which I like is hiding your hand in the blinds.

It doesn't matter what hand she has, she will never raise preflop from the blinds, and 100% of the time, she checks from the SB or check/call/folds from the BB after the flop.

That way it's impossible for anyone to get a read on her hand, as she plays muck the same way as monsters and acts on the information she receives coming back around the table to how she will play here hand.

It's primarily relevant to Limit Holdem, but I guess in the right circumstances can be adjusted to NL.

califano · 01-02-2006 03:29PM

Culchie wrote:

It doesn't matter what hand she has, she will never raise preflop from the blinds.

I knew i wasnt nuts.
I thought i coined that play of never raising in the blinds though.

ntlbell · 01-02-2006 03:34PM

rounders123 wrote:

I knew i wasnt nuts.
I thought i coined that play of never raising in the blinds though.

hehehe so did I!

I've a great book by TJ on limit holdem if you want a loan of it culchie.

RoundTower · 01-02-2006 04:12PM

I don't believe Annie Duke really does this, and I don't believe it is the most profitable way to play limit hold'em.

Culchie · 01-02-2006 04:23PM

RoundTower wrote:

I don't believe Annie Duke really does this, and I don't believe it is the most profitable way to play limit hold'em.

Maybe she is telling porkies?

Gholimoli · 01-02-2006 04:29PM

im no expert in limit holdem at all but just going by what i know about poker this can not be profitable in the long run.
not giving away your hand is just one concept in poker.
however maxamizing your winnings with a good hand is a more importnat one.
one of the reasons you raise is to build a big pot when you have a good hand.
also to thin the field so your good hand will win more often.
you accoumplish this by raising.
i would much rather raise from my Blind with trash just enough times so that the times when i raise with good hands im not giving away that much.

RoundTower · 01-02-2006 04:32PM

The last thing I read written about Annie Duke's videos was that you should just check and call if you are up against a maniac and have a good hand. The idea is apparently that the maniac gets some kind of satisfaction out of playing big pots with marginal hands, so by denying him this satisfaction you will somehow beat him in the long run.

Now I've never seen these videos and I don't really want to but either

a) people who watch these videos don't understand them and flagrantly misreport their contents
b) the videos are a nice little earner for Annie but have useless, or worse, poker content, and she probably does no more than read the script
c) Annie is an idiot.

I'm inclined towards b) but all are possible.

Culchie · 01-02-2006 04:35PM

Gholimoli wrote:

im no expert in limit holdem at all but just going by what i know about poker this can not be profitable in the long run.
not giving away your hand is just one concept in poker.
however maxamizing your winnings with a good hand is a more importnat one.
one of the reasons you raise is to build a big pot when you have a good hand.
also to thin the field so your good hand will win more often.
you accoumplish this by raising.
i would much rather raise from my Blind with trash just enough times so that the times when i raise with good hands im not giving away that much.

Maximising your winnings in Limit, doesn't necessarily mean you should bet out from early position.

I'm not going to defend her play, I'm passing on what she said, and let's havea discussion about it.
100% check every time from the blinds post flop. Suck on that :v:

Culchie · 01-02-2006 04:42PM

RoundTower wrote:

Now I've never seen these videos and I don't really want to but either

a) people who watch these videos don't understand them and flagrantly misreport their contents
b) the videos are a nice little earner for Annie but have useless, or worse, poker content, and she probably does no more than read the script
c) Annie is an idiot.
d) I know it all, and am not open to any discussion on the subject.

I'm inclined towards b) but all are possible.

I think you lean toward d) myself

I suppose it should have been endorsed by you first before going to market I guess, but to a pleb like me, I reckon it's quite good so far.

RoundTower · 01-02-2006 04:51PM

I might be arrogant and over cocky and dismissive and contemptuous of other people, but I'm definitely open to discussion. I don't mind having a little discussion on whether it is a good idea to never raise from the blinds.

I think it is a bad idea because you would like to get more money in the pot when you have a good hand. This is the main reason I bet when I am playing poker. I'm not so worried about deceiving people here.

On checking 100% of the time from the blinds postflop: this is not as bad an idea. In fact in limit hold'em this might be almost OK. But how about this situation (limit or pot limit): your opponent is loose and plays a large amount of hands before the flop, but she does not like to bluff or semibluff. She will call you on the flop with any pair, any draw or any two overcards. She will only bet if she has top pair or better, but will usually raise with these hands. She limps in, everyone folds, and you check in the big blind with J8o. The flop comes down 834. Here it is important that you bet. You do not want to give a free card if she is holding overcards or even a straight draw, and you want to get money into the pot when you are 90% sure you have the best hand and will likely be called. You don't want to check raise with this hand, if she bets you are beaten.

NickyOD · 01-02-2006 08:41PM

Culchie wrote:

I'm a bit way through Annie Dukes DVD (which is so far very very good, although the dividers between chapters in excruciating painful, sort of candid camera drum roll etc..).

One of the bits of advice I've picked up which I like is hiding your hand in the blinds.

It doesn't matter what hand she has, she will never raise preflop from the blinds, and 100% of the time, she checks from the SB or check/call/folds from the BB after the flop.

That way it's impossible for anyone to get a read on her hand, as she plays muck the same way as monsters and acts on the information she receives coming back around the table to how she will play here hand.

It's primarily relevant to Limit Holdem, but I guess in the right circumstances can be adjusted to NL.

Her strategy is flawed.

While its fine not to create a raised pot out of position in NL holdem, in limit you're not so worried about inflating the pot, in fact with the right hands you should want to inflate the pot

If she is first to act in the SB she should raise with any Ace and any King and Queen with a kicker 8 or better and even hands like J9/9T etc. Basically any good heads up hand which on average will fair better against any random hand the BB will have. Raising with these hand is more profitable than limping.

Also in the BB you should reraise a button raise with any decent ace and pair 88 or better and even KQ KJ aaginst a loose player. In limit holdem it is profitable to get more money in preflop with the what is likely to be the best hand regardless of position.

(Limit Holdem) - Hiding Your hand in the Blinds

Comments