Cheltenham Comp - Suggestions thread

fade2black · 28-02-2006 01:47PM #1

We have some ideas on this but we'll welcome any additional ones so post em here if you have any.

D'arkness · 28-02-2006 01:55PM

fade2black wrote:

We have some ideas on this but we'll welcome any additional ones so post em here if you have any.

How about:
Pick a jockey to finish best jockey over the week
Pick a trainer to finish best trainer over the week
Pick no. of Irish winners

Placepots each day with 3pts for win, 2pts for 2nd, 1pt for 3rd etc. depending on places.

decies · 28-02-2006 02:03PM

Just pick a winner in every race of the meeting,nice and simple.Players playing off against each other is a good idea.Members should now declare what prizes they are going to put up for the competion.Mine has being declared already by pm.

masterK · 28-02-2006 02:03PM

Keep it simple and have every person make a single selections in every race and calculate points on SP, possibly have a NAP each day which gets double points and a NAP of the Festival which get treble points.

Morgans · 28-02-2006 02:04PM

was just about to post the same thing as MasterK, with one execption. His idea was better, so what he said.

wb · 28-02-2006 02:23PM

I like the suggestion involving the Irish horses. Keep it as simple as possible though, would be my advice.

. I'd like to put up a prize too. Fade, Pm on the way to you

Bluetonic · 28-02-2006 02:46PM

One horse each race every day.

5pts 1st
3pts 2nd
1pts 3rd

2pts for one Nap per day.

+

One Jockey for the championship

5pts 1st
3pts 2nd
1pts 3rd

2pts for one Nap per day.

**************************************************************************************************

I'd be against points based on SPs as it won't show a true reflection on who is consistently picking winning horses.

Of course you could always grade the points based on the grade of race, and also the prize money per race. Personally I like to give each horse an equal points reward of points regardless of it was a 1/2 winner or a 20/1 winner and regardless of if it was a A race or C race.

masterK · 28-02-2006 02:50PM

It really has to be on SP Bluetonic otherwise it's a pain for whoever is running the comp to keep track of prices, how can it be proved that horse X was a certain price at the time you picked it.

As for giving the same amount of points regardless of price, that really defeats the purpose of a competition, everybody will just go for favourites all the time. Most people can pick a couple of short priced winners, the skill in is trying to pick out a long shot.

Bluetonic · 28-02-2006 02:54PM

masterK wrote:

It really has to be on SP Bluetonic otherwise it's a pain for whoever is running the comp to keep track of prices, how can it be proved that horse X was a certain price at the time you picked it.

I'm saying don't use a 'price' scoring system at all.

One winner is treated the same as every other, it make for a much better competition and closer competition with people pick horse purely on their ability to win and not their price.

Bluetonic · 28-02-2006 02:57PM

masterK wrote:

As for giving the same amount of points regardless of price, that really defeats the purpose of a competition, everybody will just go for favourites all the time. Most people can pick a couple of short priced winners, the skill in is trying to pick out a long shot.

More favourites will fail to win than will win. I can tell you that as someone who weekly enter a roll up competition such as I describe above that by purely picking favourites you'd seldom win anything.

Everyone has their own 'favourites' in Cheltehham, and fav backers rarely hold any advantage over others.

Edited to say: By purely awarding based on SP points you can easily find yourself in a situtation whereby someone is picking a horse based on the fact that they'll get more points by that horse being placed than by actually picking the winner (if your going to be doing points for placing). You can have a situation where people are picking purely to cancel other peoples selections out.

finnpark · 28-02-2006 03:07PM

I don't think that we should be making selections for every race:

(1) Its impossible to do

(2) It will be a lot of work for admin to work out everyone's selections for every race. Imagine if there are 30 people then that is 200+ selections per day and I think that would ruin the competition.

(3) It could get very messy with so amny selections.

(4) It would come down to luck probably.

I think that a simple say 15pt bank for the festival and do whatever you want with that 15pt bank.

fade2black · 28-02-2006 03:12PM

At the end of the day we'll set up a poll and put it to the vote.

Bluetonic · 28-02-2006 03:14PM

finnpark wrote:

I don't think that we should be making selections for every race:

(1) Its impossible to do

(2) It will be a lot of work for admin to work out everyone's selections for every race. Imagine if there are 30 people then that is 200+ selections per day and I think that would ruin the competition.

(3) It could get very messy with so amny selections.

Ah come on it's not that difficult at all, 100s of pubs do it every saturday, and it's run by drunks....

Regardless of what scoring system is used, I defo think it should be one selection per race.

Bluetonic · 28-02-2006 03:16PM

fade2black wrote:

At the end of the day we'll set up a poll and put it to the vote.

Anyone opening a book? :rolleyes:

fade2black · 28-02-2006 03:18PM

Down with that smiley.

scojones · 28-02-2006 03:39PM

I'm up for how we did the last comp, if there's 6 races in a day, you have 6 points, choose them wisely, you can bet all 6 points on one race each day if you like, points don't carry over to the next day.

Either that or a head to head.

Prophecy Man · 28-02-2006 03:48PM

sjones wrote:

I'm up for how we did the last comp, if there's 6 races in a day, you have 6 points, choose them wisely, you can bet all 6 points on one race each day if you like, points don't carry over to the next day.

Either that or a head to head.

I agree - 6pts per day and do what you like with them with no carry over. A head to head would not be a good idea I think. I would say a lot would be reluctant to enter such a competition. I will be voting for 6pts a day also and you can back whatever selections you want eg 2pt 2pt 2pt or 6pts or 3pt 3pt etc

decies · 28-02-2006 04:04PM

I fell sorry for fadetoblack trying to get this together:rolleyes:
The points for day system sounds good also a winner is a winner so sp should have nothing to do it it,imho.
Lets all donate some nice prizes then:D
Now am off to cook pancakes

Bluetonic · 28-02-2006 04:30PM

For it to be a true competiton we should have to have some involvement in every race in the festival, a punter is far less likely to be lucky in every race of every day for 4 days than they would be using a points system and perhaps inevitably winning the competition by participating in only 4 races (ref sjones: "you can bet all 6 points on one race each day if you like")

The competition should be to pick winners in every race, not just the ones where an individual specialised has knowledge.

finnpark · 28-02-2006 04:41PM

Bluetonic wrote:

For it to be a true competiton we should have to have some involvement in every race in the festival, a punter is far less likely to be lucky in every race of every day for 4 days than they would be using a points system and perhaps inevitably winning the competition by participating in only 4 races (ref sjones: "you can bet all 6 points on one race each day if you like")

The competition should be to pick winners in every race, not just the ones where an individual specialised has knowledge.

So which paper do you intend using?

you will see a much better standard with selectivity.

iloveireland · 28-02-2006 04:50PM

Bluetonic wrote:

For it to be a true competiton we should have to have some involvement in every race in the festival, a punter is far less likely to be lucky in every race of every day for 4 days than they would be using a points system and perhaps inevitably winning the competition by participating in only 4 races (ref sjones: "you can bet all 6 points on one race each day if you like")

The competition should be to pick winners in every race, not just the ones where an individual specialised has knowledge.

i agree with this.if everybody bets the same amount on every race then there will be no luck involved just consistancy.

Bluetonic · 28-02-2006 04:51PM

finnpark wrote:

So which paper do you intend using?

Not too sure what your suggesting here to be honest, care to elaborate? It's an irrelevant comment.

Much like the festival 'champion' jockey will be the jocket who rode the most amount of winners, so should the 'champion' of this competition be the person who has chosen the most amount of winners.

wb · 28-02-2006 05:12PM

Another alternative to giving points for a win/place etc, would be to pretend there was €10 on each selection. The person that has the most € at the end wins. If someone wants to bet on long-shots then so be it, but if someone else believes they can make more backing favs, then they could do that. The whole point of gambling is to try make money, whatever way you see fit, and this would reflect that point.

finnpark · 28-02-2006 05:13PM

Bluetonic wrote:

Much like the festival 'champion' jockey will be the jocket who rode the most amount of winners, so should the 'champion' of this competition be the person who has chosen the most amount of winners.

No it should not.

Between 30% and 40% of winners will be favourites so picks all favs and we will have a load of joint winners. If it doesn't go on odds then it is a joke. Odds are there for a reason.

fade2black · 28-02-2006 05:16PM

The competition, regardless of the point structure, will be a joint effort but to makes things a little more interesting there will also be a pairing off or head to head scenario (your points in this will be used in the overall leader board).

masterK · 28-02-2006 05:18PM

The problem with 6pts per day is come the last day those that aren't doing so well will just put all their points on a long shot and inevitably somebody will get lucky and win the competition. The competition will have nothing to do with skill but just pure luck.

Picking in each race should ensure that the winner is the person that has been most consistent through the week.

finnpark · 28-02-2006 05:23PM

masterK wrote:

The problem with 6pts per day is come the last day those that aren't doing so well will just put all their points on a long shot and inevitably somebody will get lucky and win the competition. The competition will have nothing to do with skill but just pure luck.

Picking in each race should ensure that the winner is the person that has been most consistent through the week.

Put a max bet of 2pts per horse.

fr wishy washy · 28-02-2006 05:29PM

masterK wrote:

The problem with 6pts per day is come the last day those that aren't doing so well will just put all their points on a long shot and inevitably somebody will get lucky and win the competition. The competition will have nothing to do with skill but just pure luck..

This happens in a lot of nap competitions in the papers.Each race a selection with points for odds is the best way imo.

scojones · 28-02-2006 05:29PM

I'm leaving how this competition will be structured ( I will be helping with how it is ran ) to fade and you guys, I really don't mind at all. A selection in every race is ok I guess, I'd like the head to head challenges too though.

decies · 28-02-2006 06:39PM

Damn we cant all agree, am taking back my 5 euro dunnes voucher:D

Morgans · 28-02-2006 08:03PM

I dont know why some people are so insistent on over egging the pudding. MasterK's suggestion is by far and away the best, and easiest to manage. Those who want to leave their nap of the festival to the last race can come from behind to win, and leave the excitement to the last day, it will probably guarantee a close result.

chump · 28-02-2006 08:32PM

masterK wrote:

Keep it simple and have every person make a single selections in every race and calculate points on SP, possibly have a NAP each day which gets double points and a NAP of the Festival which get treble points.

I think this is the best option.
An alternative, perhaps, would be to give every person a fixed amount of points for the whole festival

Tuesday 14, Wednesday 15, Thursday 16 & Friday 17 March
There is 6, 5, 5, 5 races each day

The highlights are:
Tuesday - Smurfit Champion Hurdle
Wednesday - Queen Mother Champion Chase
Thursday - Ladbrokes World Hurdle
Friday - totesport Cheltenham Gold Cup

Another possibility is that a person is given 21points, 1 for each race, but they can bet them where and when they choose, ie. All on the one horse in one race...

I personally would favour masterK's plan

single selections in every race
calculate points on SP,

with possibilities (his suggestions)
possibly have a NAP each day which gets double points
a NAP of the Festival which get treble points.

with possibilities (mine for the craic like eh?)
- for the main race each day (above) we have 3 points instead of 1
- a person can use their one point each-way or PLACE (ie. e/w is 0.5 WIN, 0.5 PLACE) e/w bets taken at PP SP odds with fraction rules, PLACE bets at TOTE PLACE odds or PP SP odd's fractionalised
- seriously consider the possibility of 'skipping' some races and saving your points, perhaps make it that you must bet each day and no more than one horse per race, but you can bet all 5 or 6 points in the one race if you wish ... I personally think it's difficult to study the card and horses in every race every day for 4 days

Oh and the MOST important bit, perhaps one of the mods, fade?, could set up a PayPal account, we all lodge a tenner into it, and we have a prize for 1st, 2nd, 3rd ... I'd have no qualms in trusting a tenner in fade or one of the mods hands and it would really incentivise the comp,

ziggy · 28-02-2006 08:37PM

This post has been deleted.

masterK · 28-02-2006 08:44PM

chump wrote:

Oh and the MOST important bit, perhaps one of the mods, fade?, could set up a PayPal account, we all lodge a tenner into it, and we have a prize for 1st, 2nd, 3rd ... I'd have no qualms in trusting a tenner in fade or one of the mods hands and it would really incentivise the comp,

Are you mad? That's like asking Nick Leeson to look after your investment portfolio.

fade2black · 28-02-2006 08:47PM

masterK wrote:

Are you mad? That's like asking Nick Leeson to look after your investment portfolio.

Where's that ban stick....:D

It's an interesting idea alright chump we'll run it up a flag poll and see if anyone salutes it.

Bluetonic · 01-03-2006 08:29AM

finnpark wrote:

So which paper do you intend using?

Once again finnpark can I ask you to explain and elaborate your comment here. I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to imply something about someone they don't know.

masterK · 01-03-2006 08:31AM

Chump's PayPal idea sounds like the way to go, it saves the hassle of people donating prizes and having them all collected. Will I give you all my PayPal address or should I wait until after the competition?:)

finnpark · 01-03-2006 10:57AM

masterK wrote:

Chump's PayPal idea sounds like the way to go, it saves the hassle of people donating prizes and having them all collected. Will I give you all my PayPal address or should I wait until after the competition?:)

Well if you want to transfer me the money now then thats fine with me.:D

Good idea though, I was going to do this myself, maybe as a free bet prize.

finnpark · 01-03-2006 10:58AM

Bluetonic wrote:

Once again finnpark can I ask you to explain and elaborate your comment here. I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to imply something about someone they don't know.

Not implying anything personally but a lot of people would just copy selections from nespapers, its just too much work going through every race.

masterK · 01-03-2006 11:06AM

finnpark wrote:

Not implying anything personally but a lot of people would just copy selections from nespapers, its just too much work going through every race.

It's not too much work going trough every race as most people have already done that, pretty much anybody with any interest in racing will have a good idea of what horses are in what races and will also have a good idea of who there selections will be.

fade2black · 01-03-2006 11:06AM

masterK wrote:

It's not too much work going trough every race as most people have already done that, pretty much anybody with any interest in racing will have a good idea of what horses are in what races and will also have a good idea of who there selections will be.

Agreed, Cheltenham is one festival where most people will have a selection already in mind for every race. I know I do anyway.

wb · 01-03-2006 01:51PM

finnpark wrote:

Not implying anything personally but a lot of people would just copy selections from nespapers, its just too much work going through every race.

sorry finn, but i completely disagree. Most people will enjoy going through each race, and not consider it work. It is Cheltenham after all!! Also, some of us already have ideas about who we will back.

I don't think anyone who takes racing seriously would just copy selections from newspapers, not for cheltenham

Healio · 02-03-2006 01:29AM

Just came up with another idea probaly a bit late.....................

Everyday award points for the standings i.e:

20 people enter the whole compo - whoever has the highest return on the day gets 20 pt, 2nd gets 19pts and so on. Do this daily so that it keeps the competition exciting, e.g. if you have an absolute blow out on the tuesday and wednesday, thurs and friday are still exciting.

It looks like everything is sorted already, just thought i would throw it out there.

Cheltenham Comp - Suggestions thread

Comments