EOS 400D, 70-200/4L IS and 50/1.2L

Enygma · 23-08-2006 07:53AM #1

It's a bad translation but you get the gist. The sensor cleaning technology sounds cool.

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_400D.html

Roen · 23-08-2006 11:16AM

More rumour mill at work I wonder, the whole thing seems to go into overdrive around Photokina time.

melekalikimaka · 23-08-2006 11:19AM

if the 50mm 1.2 is anything like the nikon it'll cost a bomb, will be interesting to see images tho

Enygma · 23-08-2006 11:30AM

I'd usually pay a bit more attention to Bob Atkins though, he'll usually come up with what he thinks will be announced rather than spreading rumours. Apparently this was up on the Canon Japan website yesterday and it's dated for tomorrow. We'll soon find out.

The image of the 70-200/4L IS looks pretty real to me.

davmigil · 23-08-2006 01:26PM

Found this link on another forum. Picture of new 400D, showing Canon addressed user complaints 350D was too small. Introducing dedicated Black & White mode:

http://www.shopping.com/xPF-C400D

Enygma · 23-08-2006 01:42PM

Lol!

Roen · 23-08-2006 01:50PM

Nice one!

davmigil · 23-08-2006 02:20PM

Found more pics on this thread: no messing this time

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=206908&page=7

This one has a built in cell phone though:

http://www.dphotojournal.com/canon-eos-400dcp-rumor/

Fajitas! · 23-08-2006 05:23PM

Hmmmm... Wonder if this'll bring down the price of higher ranged cameras? They couldn't really have an entry (#00D models) with better stats than mid-high range models (#0D models)...could they?

(Come ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon the 5D!)

run_Forrest_run · 24-08-2006 07:29AM

Not bad at all Enygma. Just to make my decision on which DSLR to buy a little more difficult. Once the wedding is over I am going to make my purchase (if there's any money left!).

PaulieC · 24-08-2006 07:33AM

well it's official now (or else a real elaborate hoax) see Rob Galbraith, with links here to Canon Australia and Canon Japan web sites.

Looks like I just found my christmas present for this year

She will be happy indeed :rolleyes:

Enygma · 24-08-2006 08:14AM

Told ye so!

Ah Forrest sure you'll be loaded after the wedding! Go for the 1 Ds MK III

Looks like the 400D might make a nice enough backup body. And the sensor cleaning business means I won't have to annoy people to clean my sensor anymore

Yay!

This sounds pretty clever too:

A sensor beneath the viewfinder eyepiece detects when the camera is brought to your eye and shuts off the rear LCD automatically (the lone rear LCD is the entry-point for almost all basic settings except exposure mode).

I'd rather a separate smaller LCD though, save on battery power.

Roen · 24-08-2006 10:51AM

Now lets hope the 3D rumours turn out to be correct (some hope!). There could be a 20D and grip going cheap if it is

davmigil · 24-08-2006 02:00PM

Roen wrote:

Now lets hope the 3D rumours turn out to be correct (some hope!). There could be a 20D and grip going cheap if it is

Sell now before the bottom falls out of the market

masteroftherealm · 24-08-2006 02:38PM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 50 1.2 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
That is all.

joe_elway · 24-08-2006 09:22PM

The 400D is an interesting marketing exercise. If you are a serious DSLR user then having sepia, b/w, etc built into the camera is pointless. It's like the auto modes that you never use once you learn how to use the features of the camera.

10MP... Not really of much use to most people unless you do some serious cropping or make huge prints.

The thing that is most interesting is the claim that the AF is as fast as a 20D/30D. That with the 2.5" screen is surely going to leave 30D owners a little ticked off. Here's this entry level machine that is matching their mid level machine that is only 6 months old. From what I've made out on POTN, the build quality appears to be the only difference between the 400D and the 30D (the former has a pure plastic body and probably shorter shutter life).

Roen · 28-08-2006 09:24AM

http://www.canon.co.uk/eos400d/index.asp

Looks good, at least it'll give me another year or so to save before I replace my 20d.

28-08-2006 09:28AM

In AC FOTO ,try there new release section ,the prices are listed

777 for the 400D and 1292 for the 50mm 1.2

davmigil · 28-08-2006 09:45AM

I wonder is the 400D almost identical in size/ergonomics to 350D?

Roen · 28-08-2006 10:16AM

In the above Canon link click on the Accelerate pic, looks like a toy tbh. I'd still love one though

PaulieC · 28-08-2006 11:53AM

according to the specs, the 400D and 350D are almost identical in size, the 400D being 1mm deeper than the 350D.
It's a shame that they didn't make the hand grip a bit bigger - I got cramps in my right hand after using the 350D for about 15 minutes.
I wonder what are the chances of getting a bigger-bodied camera, like the 30D, with some of the new features of the 400D, like the sensor cleaning and the 10 MP sensor...

edunon · 28-08-2006 01:42PM

Something doesn't make sense to me. Canon is been using on the "Digital Rebel" models the same sensor than 10D,20D and 30D.
Now it's using a new 10MP sensor, few months after the 30D came out with the same 20D's sensor...

I won't be surprised if ebay starts getting lots of 30D...

Morlar · 28-08-2006 01:54PM

I am not sure that they will - people who bought the 30/20/10d still have cameras that can do what they could do the day they were bought. So nothing has changed on that score.

Everyone expects depreciation of some kind and I dont reckon those ones have done badly at all. Personally I wouldnt upgrade unless it was to a 5d or a 1ds of some kind (3d if one ever comes along). The sensor self cleaning thing could be useful but even after watching the promo clip I think it looks a bit gimmicky and unproven - I reckon cleaning will still be required just maybe not quite as much.

davmigil · 28-08-2006 02:15PM

I'd take a 20D or 30D over an 400D anyday. Still great cameras and solid build. 8Mb vs 10Mb is no great shakes, just allows a bit close cropping. Dust reducer sounds handy though. I wish they would have made the 400D a bit bigger, but I guess that might have hit there 00 series more. I guess a 40D must be in the pipeline though (10Mb sensor, dust cleaning and bigger LCD screen, else remaining the same?).

Should be seeing lots of 400D vs D80 articles now. I think the D70s will be discontinued soon?

PaulieC · 28-08-2006 02:48PM

I would be looking to upgrade from a 300D, so it's a jump from 6MP to 10MP, which is more significant. Add to that the Anti-dist thingy, .2 second start up, higher continuous frame rate, 2.5 in LCD etc., I think it becomes a pretty worthwhile upgrade.
The question now is whether to go for the 400D or the 30D. If you could combine features of both - Anti-dust, 10MP, Spot Metering, metal body etc. you'd have a pretty serious piece of kit - one that you wouldn't need to upgrade from for quite a long time, which I guess is exactly what canon are not looking for

elven · 28-08-2006 03:30PM

Here's a possibly stupid question - would the level of noise differ with the amount of megapixels, or is it completely unrelated?

I think for once, I won't be disappointed when I've got the slightly older model (the 350D) because the extra 2mp prolly won't make a huge difference - and I think the sensor cleaning thingamybob is more gimmicky than anything else. Ask me if I'd rather have a 20/30D, and it's a different story.

Oh, no, the gear lust is starting to set in. Gah!

davmigil · 28-08-2006 03:52PM

elven wrote:

Here's a possibly stupid question - would the level of noise differ with the amount of megapixels, or is it completely unrelated?
!

From what I have been reading: Sensor size has remained exactly same between 350D and 400D. Therefore more pixel receptor thingies (I believe that is the technical jargon

) packed into same space. So all things being equal noise should increase/sensitivity should decrease. Canon claim they have done some technical wizardy to compensate so performance same.*

Should be interesting to see some high ISO shot comparisons.

But anyway, I have changed my mind: 20D and 30D are so yesterday, if I had one I would be selling it at a giveaway price (to me

).

*Here's the science bit:The Rebel XTi SLR's CMOS sensor goes further still, maintaining an exceptional dynamic range while reducing the noise level that one might typically expect for a pixel size delivering such high resolution. Canon engineers and designers achieved this breakthrough in sensor design by reducing the space between the chip's microlenses while at the same time increasing the sensitivity of each photodiode. As a result, the camera achieves 20 percent greater resolution than an eight-megapixel sensor with comparable noise reduction and dynamic range.

28-08-2006 04:02PM

For anyone worried about the size of a 400D ,the battery grip makes a substantial difference.
The grip from the 350D fits the new 400D ,so there should be some available secondhand on ebay.

Roen · 28-08-2006 04:19PM

The grip makes a huge difference to the 20D, I'd say it would be utterly necessary on the 350/400D. I'm also not sure about having no LCD panel on the top. You have to use the rear screen for absolutely everything. Pain in the bum imo. But then again they'd hardly release it if it was....would they?

joe_elway · 28-08-2006 04:47PM

I (try) to shoot a lot of wildlife to frames per second really matter to me. The 400D is still slower than the 30D so that would be important.

I've not seen any shutter life specs for the 400D so I'll assume for now it's the same as the 350D (50K). That's half of what you get with the 20D/30D. That's pretty important if you do take a lot of shots.

The other thing that differentiates the 350D is the size. Lots of people think it's too small, even with the BG attached, so they go to the 20D/30D instead. That looks like it will remain the case with the 400D.

Now, the price is a big thing. That earlier post had it at around £200 more than the 350D today in Jessops UK. That would not go down well. If that does remain the case then anyone who asks me what to buy will hear "Nikon" and "Sony" from me and not Canon. There's no way I'd tolerate paying "bleeding edge" money for a camera that's loaded with crippleware, i.e. there was no meaningful research to pay for.

Fionn · 28-08-2006 09:24PM

i would imagine a lot of 350 D owners wouldn't upgrade to the 400 D but might be tempted to go to the 20/30 D if there's any price drop. However people entering the DSLR market may be much more liable to purchase the 400 D. So i would see the 350 D going the way of the 300 D and becoming scarce in the shops. I would really like to see the 5 D drop in price

As regards the dimensions of the 350/400 yes ; the BG is almost essential especially when there's a bigger lens attached.
The only time I've used it without the BG is with a 50mm + no strap for discreet photography, it's so small stripped down it will just about fit in a coat i have with large pockets

Fajitas! · 28-08-2006 09:37PM

cambo_gueno wrote:

I would be looking to upgrade from a 300D, so it's a jump from 6MP to 10MP, which is more significant. Add to that the Anti-dist thingy, .2 second start up, higher continuous frame rate, 2.5 in LCD etc., I think it becomes a pretty worthwhile upgrade.
The question now is whether to go for the 400D or the 30D. If you could combine features of both - Anti-dust, 10MP, Spot Metering, metal body etc. you'd have a pretty serious piece of kit - one that you wouldn't need to upgrade from for quite a long time, which I guess is exactly what canon are not looking for

I'm coming from the exact same position as yourself...

But I no longer want a bottom of the range camera. It's served me well and all, but college and work potential calls for something with a bit more Ummph.

So the 400D looks nice. But it does mean the middle of the range #0D models are gonna be upgraded...so even if I went for a 30D...the bottom of the range one would have better features...

This is a massive ploy by Canon, to make people in my position buy 5D's...

JMcL · 29-08-2006 07:43AM

davmigil wrote:

I wonder is the 400D almost identical in size/ergonomics to 350D?

Apparently so. The only significant external difference is that there's no separate LCD for shooting info, ISO etc - it's all now shown on the main LCD, which I can't imagine is good news for battery life

29-08-2006 12:23PM

JMcL wrote:

Apparently so. The only significant external difference is that there's no separate LCD for shooting info, ISO etc - it's all now shown on the main LCD, which I can't imagine is good news for battery life

Looked at a picture of the ISO ,balance display ,it seems to be the really light lcd reading ,like a LCD watch . Doubt it will affect battery life.

elven · 29-08-2006 01:16PM

Is this the real thing?

http://www.tomshardware.fr/images/news/20060825/canon_400D_2.jpg

If so, it looks like they've used the main screen to show the normal settings when you aren't looking at image previews or menus - presumably in order to increase the size of the screen without having to shift the separate little LCD off onto the top by the dial and therefore increase the depth of the body.

I can't tell from that picture whether it's using the actual display though - I mean, surely you can't have a proper screen work like a watch/calculator then switch over to full colour, can you? It's quite intriguing.

But I'm not sure I like it, at all.

PurpleFistMixer · 29-08-2006 01:42PM

I don't like the look of that single screen at all. I think the smaller screen for displaying info is perfectly functional, and I don't think a larger LCD for photo reviewing is necessary at all. Battery wasting if anything.

Wouldn't bother upgrading from 350d, and I think if I was coming into buying a DSLR new, I wouldn't both with the 400d either. Seems a little unnecessary in general, tbh.

29-08-2006 02:11PM

I think the most important thing about the change in the display is the large ISO setting on the camera ,how many times have people here left it at 800.
Personally I can't stand that seperate LCD ,especially at low light.
looking at the picture ,the self timer seems to be a flatter type button ,harder to press with the gonzo.
I think canon have addressed the issues well and got even more use from such a small body. Don't think new customer will have any complaints.

elven · 29-08-2006 02:25PM

Aye - how come my old 35mm 1982 EOS 600 has a nice blue backlight on the display, but my slick new 350D doesn't...? That is annoying.

Almost as annoying as leaving your camera set to ISO800, and changing the shooting mode to self timer with my snoz...

JMcL · 29-08-2006 03:27PM

elven wrote:

Is this the real thing?

http://www.tomshardware.fr/images/news/20060825/canon_400D_2.jpg

If so, it looks like they've used the main screen to show the normal settings when you aren't looking at image previews or menus - presumably in order to increase the size of the screen without having to shift the separate little LCD off onto the top by the dial and therefore increase the depth of the body.

I can't tell from that picture whether it's using the actual display though - I mean, surely you can't have a proper screen work like a watch/calculator then switch over to full colour, can you? It's quite intriguing.

But I'm not sure I like it, at all.

Yup, one single full colour screen, which displays shooting info when you aren't viewing images. There's also a proximity sensor just below the viewfinder that automatically turns the display off when you put your eye up to it. Given that the battery is the same, and that LCDs haven't become super efficient over the last 18 months, I don't see how the display being on most of the time could do anything other than crucify the battery.

For example, when I was in south America this spring, I managed to get through around 3 batteries in my 300D over the course of a 3 day hike where there was no access to power, and this was with taking it fairly easy on reviewing images for that reason.

elven wrote:

Aye - how come my old 35mm 1982 EOS 600 has a nice blue backlight on the display, but my slick new 350D doesn't...? That is annoying.

Is there not a button that can be pressed to backlight the LCD? There was on the 300D, and I can't believe they'd have skimped on that!

elven · 29-08-2006 03:31PM

JMcL wrote:

Is there not a button that can be pressed to backlight the LCD? There was on the 300D, and I can't believe they'd have skimped on that!

Actually there's a good chance there is, and I just couldn't see it because ironically, it was dark...

After all, I did only discover how to zoom in on the LCD preview screen last week. Meh.

ladgie353 · 29-08-2006 03:57PM

Actually there's a good chance there is, and I just couldn't see it because ironically, it was dark... After all, I did only discover how to zoom in on the LCD preview screen last week. Meh.

I'm affraid that's the case, see DC Review
You should have a lamp button on the camera. The thing is, though, I don't see any "lamp" button on the camera pictures in that review...

29-08-2006 05:00PM

the camera has a sleep mode ,the lcd won't munch the juice if the sleep mode is activated.
the current lcd knocks off on the 350D automatically.
Anyways ,everybody says the 350D is great on batteries .
I think the design is grand ,they even put a non wearing piece where your right thumb goes ,mine is all worn in that part.

I hope the 5D is getting the same attention to usage as the 350 did.

PurpleFistMixer · 29-08-2006 06:41PM

There is a backlight for the small LCD.
It's not visible in that photograph because the button is black and not shiny. It's situated underneath the drivemode/self-timer button.

Fenster · 29-08-2006 10:43PM

The 400D looks swish! On one hand, I'm in the US now and on the other I'm broke. :[

edunon · 31-08-2006 08:37AM

First Reviews:

Luminous-Landscape.com

Camera Labs Full Review

Seems like having 10.1MP in the same sensor size doesn't affect too much to noise. Good news for future buyers.

On the negative side, no spot meter...

digitalage · 31-08-2006 09:03AM

This is a great camera, I would'nt worry too much about spot metering as canon only started too introduce this into its consumer cameras (canon 30d), you get alot of camera for the money which leaves more money for good lenses, I would buy this over a 30d anyday.

Shrimp · 31-08-2006 01:17PM

I bought the 350D last night and I comparing it to the 400D in case it was worth my while. The only major differences I could see were that the 400D has 2 megapixels more, a 2.5 inch screen and .2 of a frame per second extra in burst mode.

I don't think it's worth the extra 200 odd quid, you could get a lens for that price. If you want something better than the 350D the 400D wont really fulfill that, I'd say you go for the 30D or similar.

I don't really know why the 400D was even released?

JMcL · 31-08-2006 01:51PM

Shrimp wrote:

I bought the 350D last night and I comparing it to the 400D in case it was worth my while. The only major differences I could see were that the 400D has 2 megapixels more, a 2.5 inch screen and .2 of a frame per second extra in burst mode.

I don't think it's worth the extra 200 odd quid, you could get a lens for that price. If you want something better than the 350D the 400D wont really fulfill that, I'd say you go for the 30D or similar.

It's true that the 350D is a good enough camera to satisfy most peoples needs. The megapixel numbers are largely a marketing red herring - 8mp is good enough to produce good quality A3 sized prints. Here more is not necessarily better. The more megapixels that get crammed onto a sensor of a given size, the smaller and more tightly packed together they'll be In general, this leads to more noise (one reason why compact cameras are frequently really noisy even at ISO400). Though that said, it seems that Canon have managed to increase the resolution without increasing noise levels

The big advantages of the 400D are the 9 point autofocus, the same as on the 30D, and by all accounts far superior to the 7 point AF on the 300D/350D, and the the anti dust vibration mechanism

Shrimp wrote:

I don't really know why the 400D was even released?

I think a better question would be that now that it has, why would anybody buy a 30D?

At any rate, enjoy your 350D, I'm sure it will serve you well

EOS 400D, 70-200/4L IS and 50/1.2L

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