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HTPC or Shuttle? Advice needed on build

  • 06-10-2006 02:54PM
    #1
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭


    Ok so my parents are looking for me to build them a PC for use with their new Plasma screen. It would preferably have a remote, be as quite as... lets say a VCR rewinding, and be small enough to fit in a cubby hole meant for a VCR (microATX mobo and case hopefully).

    I have plenty of experience building tower PCs, but pretty much only keep up to date with the latest (and thus most expensive) H/W released for computers, I have no idea what I should be looking at to build a HTPC?

    This PC doesn't need any uber graphics cards, or 1337 CPU. It only needs to run/copy DVDs, play movies, store and display pictures and do a bit of internet browsing (wireless?)

    I only need to know what would be sufficient for the main unit to be acceptable. The budget would be €500 or less for everything except OS, kb mouse and screen.

    Any ideas where to start?


Comments

  • #2
    unklerosco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭unklerosco


    The HTPC forum would be a good start... similar thread on this subject there

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=643


  • #3
    8T8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭8T8


    Weird feeling of deja vu I swear I saw this topic in HTPC forums a week or two ago.

    It's 50/50 as its building a general purpose computer but also covers HTPC, I'll move it but keep a link back to the building forum.

    Anyway to answer the question, I'm not so sure about mATX and VCR sized enclosures that could be pretty tight. The VIA micro or nano ITX form factor is really where this would shine as they
    * are extremely small so form factor is not a problem
    * run very cool, in fact active cooler aren't even needed
    * performance is just about adequate for what you want to do but anything else it's pretty poor at - if using VIA CPU, some Intel/AMD ITX boards exist but are very expensive.

    The problem is the price the ITX motherboards and case will eat into your budget.


    In general building a HTPC is no different from building a regular PC its really sort of like building one of the old form factor desktop PC's.

    The closest thing to what you want is this case from Silverstone the SST-LC04 now I've owned one of these so I can tell you what to watch out for.
    * The height it is taller than a VCR measure the cubby holes dimensions to see if it will fit.
    * The PSU in it is weak, cant put anything remotely demanding in it
    * Air supply need some ventilation to work
    * Grill directly above CPU socket for air so CPU cooler if using an active fan can definitely be heard.

    If you go with that case here are some picks
    Silverstone SST-LC04 €179
    AMD Sempron 3000+ CPU €49
    Motherboard €45 - integrated graphics, sound & networking
    USB WiFi adaptor €43
    512MB RAM {256x2} €68
    80GB SATA HD €47
    DVD writer SATA €46 - makes cable management so much easier in that case.
    MCE remote €38 - I don't know if you are going to be using MCE or not but if so this is what you need.

    Total cost: €515

    Of course if you can get anything cheaper/second hand that would reduce the cost further. One final item is the CPU fan, the stock fan may not be all that great so you may want to get one with an adjustable speed and basically set it to the slowest mode for quietness though in a cramp enclosure with no air flow this could be counter productive it is hard to say...

    Personally I ended up ditching the SST-LC04 after the PSU gave out on me and instead got this which have been a great case as it allows you to build a SFF Shuttle like computer from off the shelf components, it acts as my HTPC underneath a table in a corner of the room with cables run through trunking to the back of the TV.


  • #4
    awhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭awhir


    congrats 8t8 on becoming a mod :D


  • #5
    8T8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭8T8


    Thanks awhir :)


  • #6
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Tnx for that 8T8. Covers pretty much all the bases I was looking at. The only problem is that the case doesn't seem to uATX mobos? It says it only supports ATX in the specs on Komplett. Is there any cases for a HTPC that would only fit a uATX mobo (thus removing the extra space needed for an ATX mobo?)


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  • #7
    8T8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭8T8


    ATX cases support mATX mainboards.

    uATX = mATX

    As for a smaller case yeah they are out there easiest example is another case from Silverstone (they mak a lot of HTPC cases) the SST-LC11M

    Available on OcUK and Pixmania (no LED display on that one).


  • #8
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    I'm probably going to go ahead with that case, it is reasonably cheap from pixmania and the perfect size.

    Also is there some reason why I should be getting 2 sticks of 256MB RAM instead of just getting one stick of 512MB RAM which is cheaper?


  • #9
    8T8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭8T8


    Doh! your right totally forgot the S754 interface is single channel only so you don't need two DIMM's just one will do.

    If you can push it within the budget get 1GB of RAM if running MCE it will make a difference (but 512MB is fine too).


  • #10
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Just one more question. Will the onboard graphics be enough for playing DVDs on 26" screen (1360x768). What is the max res of it? Not even the main MSI page has info on it?


  • #11
    8T8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭8T8


    It will be fine 1360x768 is not a problem for it or any resolution really when DVD's are the content.

    If you want something ever so slightly better this Gigabyte board uses the nForce 4 chipset and has integrated GeForce 6100 graphics you could use the Purevideo DVD decoder with it but you wont get any of the advanced features with it those are only available on the 6150+ but you do get MPEG-2 decode assisting.

    Plus the Purevideo decoder is an MCE compliant decoder so no need to worry about that area.


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  • #12
    ixtlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭ixtlan


    If games are not a concern, and if you could stretch the budget a little maybe you should consider a Macmini.

    This is in my plans when I get my large screen LCD next year.

    For about €630, it comes with a remote, plus user-friendly OS and the frontrow software.

    Most importantly, it's tiny (about the size of a few stacked CDs) and pretty silent, so you don't really need to hide it away.

    The only reason I would see to get a PC is if playing games was an issue.

    Ix.


  • #13
    8T8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭8T8


    Yeah Mac Mini's are nice as well though you are stretching the cost for the form factor and a better CPU but in all other areas is it weaker then a self built HTPC.

    However I would not put frontrow in the same league as MCE, frontrow is just a media viewer to various Apple programs like QT & iTunes with no DVR features at all.

    But at least with the Intel Mac's you can run Windows MCE, GB-PVR Media Portal or whatever on it as well via bootcamp.


  • #14
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Ok well i've finally settled on a build with my parents. I will be putting all this in the LC1 case from pixmania, it doesn't state, but does this case come with a remote? On the Silverstone product page it shows it with an MCE remote?

    Is everything alright for this build?

    HTPC components


  • #15
    SouperComputer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭SouperComputer


    Looks good, although if you plan ever watching 1024p (or maybe even 720p) content the S754 may cause headaches. Although a slight overclock should bring it into ballpark.

    Macmini's are grand, but you have to go the route of a USB\Firewire tuner, which can cause aweful headaches at times. They are not silent when under pressure either, the rather small fan has to spin pretty quick to get the air out of there when the CPU is being worked hard.

    Also, rather than getting the logitech keyboard, why not get the Microsoft MCE one. It has a mouse and all MCE features integrated.

    Lastly, personally id go with a seagtae drive from an acoustics POV.


  • #16
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    the reason i didn't want to go for the mce kb was that i'd heard people saying it was crap, but I might consider it now as my parents really want ease of use rather than fanciness.

    Just another question, how easy is it to use the internet in MCE, it will be my first time using it so i'm not familiar with how the menu or GUI works as regards everyday use. Can the menu screen be turned off and the normal XP GUI used?


  • #17
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Ok this will probably seem like deja vu if you've read my thread over in B&U.

    I'm in a dilemma as to which of these HTPC enclosures to get.

    I had my heart set on this Silverstone case, but after looking around the HTPC cases Anter has to offer, this one looks as good if not better, albeit taller, + and this is a big + its a LOT cheaper with a much better PSU.

    OCuk has both of these cases, the Antec one can be shipped for around €210 but the Silverstone one is a whopping €285??? Am i missing something here? Why is almost an identical case with a PSU half the rating of the Antec selling at nearly €80 more? The extra 4cm of height that they've removed?

    Is there something i'm missing here or would the Antec case be the best way to go.


  • #18
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    I'm in the same situation...Been looking to build a HTPC for a while now and couldnt figure out what was the best between price and functionality. Decided to bite the bullet and go for something similar to the spec suggested above. My question is would this http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=ECE1200518 work with this setup?

    Also I currently have Sky+ with multiroom costing over 70Euro per month which I plan to ditch since I never watch Sky anyway. Can I use the Sky satelite feed into the TV tuner to record TV same as Sky+ does if I kept the basic sky subscription? If not any suggestions as to how I could use such a TV tuner?


  • #19
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    nope, you'll need the sky bo to decode the signal..and if you do htat the sky box will only output one channel at a time, so a dual tuner is pointless. iff you want to get rid of the sky box, you an dvb-s card, which you can connect your satellite to, but you will be limited to the fta channels. if you want all the channels you have on your sky box, you'll need to use the sky box ando connect it to a card on the pc


  • #20
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    SouperComputer wrote:
    Looks good, although if you plan ever watching 1024p (or maybe even 720p) content


    1024p?:D


  • #21
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Ok so i'm going to go ahead with the Antec case, it seems the best bang for buck compared to the Silverstone case. Although now i'm torn again. Going with s754 really is an upgrade deadend. So i'm thinking for the extra few euros i'll save not going with the Silverstone case I might as well reinvest that and more over to AM2 which seems pretty much around the same price.

    The only catch (and there is always one) is that there doesn't seem to be a wide range of coolers for AM2 cpus? I was hoping to get a silent low profile Zalman solution which would allow me to OC the cpu maybe 10%, and not really have to worry about noise or heat. Any ideas?


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  • #22
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    mossym wrote:
    nope, you'll need the sky bo to decode the signal..and if you do htat the sky box will only output one channel at a time, so a dual tuner is pointless. iff you want to get rid of the sky box, you an dvb-s card, which you can connect your satellite to, but you will be limited to the fta channels. if you want all the channels you have on your sky box, you'll need to use the sky box ando connect it to a card on the pc

    Okay then, Could I plug the output of one skybox into one input on the card and the other output of the second sky box into the second input on the card and record from both this way?
    Effectively get rid of Sky+ subscription but keeping basic package with multiroom so two boxes...


  • #23
    SouperComputer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭SouperComputer


    mossym wrote:
    1024p?:D

    Yea, ive seen a few HD-DVD's here in MN for $38 or so. Finding a cheap player however is another story :) Although they seem to be 1080i :( Meh, theres a couple of 1020P demo files about on the web.


  • #24
    8T8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭8T8


    A lot of the newer HD-DVD VC-1 encoded titles are 1080p like Batman Returns.

    Toshiba are planning a new cheaper second generation HD-DVD player ironically launching here in Europe first then it will make its way back to the US.

    But I think the catch is that the cheaper HD-A2 does not support 1080p only 1080i, the more expensive HD-XA2 supports 1080p plus HDMI v1.3 but I'm not 100% certain on that info.


  • #25
    L31mr0d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    Ok so my new setup is in the list below:

    New HTPC list

    There is no internal HDDs as I have 2xWD on the way from another source which i'm going to set up in a RAID 1 as a backup for my parents. The 250GB WD external is my payment ;)

    Also this HTPC will be used analogue and digital TV. What would be the best card to get to allow this? Does MCE offer the ability to record and watch another station at the same time or do I need a special card for that?


  • #26
    SouperComputer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,946 ✭✭✭SouperComputer


    Also this HTPC will be used analogue and digital TV. What would be the best card to get to allow this? Does MCE offer the ability to record and watch another station at the same time or do I need a special card for that?

    The answer is yes and no, but mostly no. MCE will not allow you to mix sources. You can only use one version of your EPG, so you can choose EITHER your cable\satellite provider's or your antenna's EPG.

    You can of course have two (or more) recordings from the same source if you have the extra TV Cards and cable boxes.

    If you want mix sources, MythTV is really the best way to go.


  • #27
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    myth tv is a powerfuly pvr, but for someone with no linux experience it's probably more hassle than needed. I'm pretty sure mediaportal will allow you to mix sources as well. It's resource hungry, but it is windows based.


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