another no limit hand

reilly110 · 30-11-2006 11:20PM #1

Seat 1: Floyd13 ($197)
Seat 2: MrsJoer ($170.65)
Seat 3: brothelbaron ($176)
Seat 4: ME ($198)
Seat 5: cjogorma ($105.95)
Seat 6: harr055 ($58)
ME posts the small blind of $1
cjogorma posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ME [2d 2c]
harr055 calls $2
Floyd13 folds
MrsJoer calls $2
brothelbaron raises to $11

ME calls $10
cjogorma folds
harr055 folds
MrsJoer folds
*** FLOP *** [2s 6c Ts]
ME checks
brothelbaron bets $28
ME raises to $60
brothelbaron raises to $165, and is all in

what does villian have ??

Paul Tergat · 30-11-2006 11:23PM

well you cant fold IMO!

looks like big pp (aa/kk) or unlucky if he's 10's or 6's

ak spades possible? doubt it!

Lazare · 30-11-2006 11:36PM

reilly110 wrote:

what does villian have ??

How can anyone here answer that?*

As regards your play, you have to call, you called a big raise preflop OOP, you hit what you wanted now ship it.

Don't like your CR though, depending on how aggro your opponent is and what your image is, I'd prefer to lead out with this.

*not being smart here btw, just without any info on your opponent, it's pointless guessing what he has

Goodluck2me · 30-11-2006 11:36PM

he could have an over pair and think you wouldnt raise with a flush so is putting you to the test. he could also have a lower flush he is protecting.

Hectorjelly · 30-11-2006 11:49PM

Fold preflop
Call the flop instantly, I wouldnt even bother thinking about what he has.

reilly110 · 30-11-2006 11:49PM

no info on villian i am only playing 10 hands or so - villian has raised 4 out of and bet flop on all

Marq · 30-11-2006 11:52PM

I would lead the flop.

valor · 30-11-2006 11:54PM

who cares what he has? we have a set

I hate the flop c min raise

reilly110 · 30-11-2006 11:57PM

why do you think it is better to lead on the flop ??

valor · 30-11-2006 11:59PM

reilly110 wrote:

why do you think it is better to lead on the flop ??

so he can raise his over pairs and you can push

DeadParrot · 01-12-2006 12:00AM

maybe not if you know he is going to bet at you, but its not the best line to take as unless you CRAI its you who has the decision.
or what Valor said.

Lazare · 01-12-2006 12:07AM

You also want to build the pot, he may check behind, but an Aggro opponent will more often raise, allowing you to play for his stack.

Edit, check raises are only usefull as bluffs.

reilly110 · 01-12-2006 12:21AM

alot of people at that level think that a check raise on flop represents a flush draw
what if i lead and he folds when he misses flop- at least if i check raise i will get a continuation bet from him instead of giving him a free chance to fold

Lazare · 01-12-2006 12:28AM

reilly110 wrote:

alot of people at that level think that a check raise on flop represents a flush draw
what if i lead and he folds when he misses flop- at least if i check raise i will get a continuation bet from him instead of giving him a free chance to fold

There is a much higher expected value to leading out. When you CR, you're allowing your opponent to play perfectly and get away cheap.

If you feel you're opponent will fold to a bet, you can bluff call preflop with any two cards and lead any non dangerous flop.

But your wasting value by check raising your big hands.

phantom_lord · 01-12-2006 05:48AM

People cr too often in deep stacked cash games, imo, it means I get away cheaply from some hands.

A lead here is better, hopefully he has an over pair and will reraise and will call a shove.

spectre · 01-12-2006 07:05AM

Hectorjelly wrote:

Fold preflop
Call the flop instantly, I wouldnt even bother thinking about what he has.

Why fold preflop? What is the minimum requirement for entering the hand from the SB?

Scouser in Dub · 01-12-2006 10:10AM

There's a big raise into the SB though

bubbleking · 01-12-2006 11:27AM

spectre wrote:

Why fold preflop? What is the minimum requirement for entering the hand from the SB?

fold preflop because your OOP with a big raise (5.5 x the BB) coming into you.

as played lead the flop dont check raise.

doesnt really matter what he has you have to call now.

as for entering the pot in the SB i generally like to play extremely tight il only get involved with a semi decent hand if i can get in cheaply and hit the flop hard (suited connectors and suited aces are good for this)

il generally play premium hands pretty hard in the SB pre flop as its harder IMHO to play OOP against an opponent on the flop/turn/river

whatawaster · 01-12-2006 11:34AM

i would fold preflop. you just got lucky hitting the 2, most times you'll miss and will be beat and have wasted a lot of money calling. And you'll be first to act post flop

ntlbell · 01-12-2006 11:42AM

Who gives a flying piglet what he has.

Fold preflop

Call.

spectre · 01-12-2006 12:28PM

bubbleking wrote:

fold preflop because your OOP with a big raise (5.5 x the BB) coming into you.

as played lead the flop dont check raise.

doesnt really matter what he has you have to call now.

as for entering the pot in the SB i generally like to play extremely tight il only get involved with a semi decent hand if i can get in cheaply and hit the flop hard (suited connectors and suited aces are good for this)

il generally play premium hands pretty hard in the SB pre flop as its harder IMHO to play OOP against an opponent on the flop/turn/river

I disagree, calling with 22 is much better than calling with suited connectors/suited aces. I will never fold any pair to this preflop raise. Here, I'm only calling for set value. I'd like to hear an argument for folding 22 in this situation.

opr · 01-12-2006 04:37PM

spectre wrote:

I disagree, calling with 22 is much better than calling with suited connectors/suited aces. I will never fold any pair to this preflop raise. Here, I'm only calling for set value. I'd like to hear an argument for folding 22 in this situation.

Lets say the stacks are 200$ and you put X into the pot.
You fold after the flop 88% of the time. In 12% of cases (set) your equity is :

Text results appended to pokerstove

3,210,570 games 0.781 secs 4,110,845 games/sec

Board: 2s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 81.0490 % 80.88% 00.17% { 22 }
Hand 2: 18.9510 % 18.78% 00.17% { AA }

---

Say 80%.

So your EV is : 88% * (-x) + 12% (400$ * 80% - 200$) =
Break even point is EV = 0.
0 = 88% * (-x) + 12% * 120$
88%*x = 12% * 120$
x = 16.36$ - Break even point.

I know this calculation is done on the basis that we will stack the Villian but surely it still means a call preflop is ok ?

I would appreciate some replys cause not really sure that my maths is sound here and that i am working this out correctly.

Opr

another no limit hand

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