Christmas and Not talkin to my ma

abetarrush · 21-12-2006 11:28AM #1

Long story short. I havent got on with my Ma for about 2 years, and I moved into my Dad's house in Feb and she hasnt once called and asked how I am

And I'm fine with that

So its Christmas, and I dont have any plans to visit her, or get her a present. Everyone keeps sayin "but she's your Ma" but its not that simple. I dont see how Christmas is any diff from any other time. We dont talk, and Christmas wont change that. I'd feel fake and hypocritical goin down for the sake of it.

I have tried to sort things out, for the last 3 years or so, but I just reached a point where I realised the change has to come from her. You can bring a camel to water... as they say, its like talkin to a wall

So what do ye think? I do feel a bit bad, and she'll prob feel bad that I dont go down to her, but she pretty much ignored me when I left, and didnt do anything to sort the trouble that made me have to leave. Im not holdin a grudge or anything, I've moved on, and im fine with the whole situation. Just concerned because all my friends think its mad that Im not goin to see her on Christmas.

Thanks for readin!

Abe

LegacyUser · 21-12-2006 11:31AM

Lifes too short for this sort of thing.. there's going to be alot of people this Christmas who've lost their mother, wishing they could see her one more time.

Bite the bullet, go visit.

monkeyfudge · 21-12-2006 11:36AM

I'm in the same situation with my sister.

I have no intention of ever speaking to her again, the fact that she's a family member doesn't change a thing.

Your friends would never understand things unless they've been in your position and feel how you feel about things. People seem to love to wheel out clichés about family and xmas though.

Kimbot · 21-12-2006 11:41AM

I was in a situation similar to that a few years ago!! Me and my mam never got on really!! I do everything I can for her now, it just takes one person to stop being stubburn about things and offer the olive branch and try fix things slowly really!!
At the end of the day not matter what anyone says or how your mother acts, she still cares about you even if she doesn't show it!! No parent could ever not care about their children.

So try work it out and if it doesn't work out at least you can say you tried!!

Marksie · 21-12-2006 11:45AM

No i dont think your mad.

I havent been in that situation but a friend of mine has. She was living under the same roof with her sister and mother. The mother isn't speaking to any of either of them and hasn't done so for 18 months.

In then end the reasoning is the same as yours that it was up to the mother to change... but it seems that in this instance the mother is determined to go to the grave not spekaing to anyone.
To which my friend says she can. A terrible impasse.

What you have do decide is not what your friends think, but what ultimately you want. To open lines of communication, even slightly or to continue not communicating...

What is the likely outcome of no present and no visit? Will it entrench things even more?
or will giving a present and brief visit be seen as a climbdown on either of your parts?

It depends on what is the root of the problem and whether your mither is capable of learning and accepting.
Given what my friend went through and is going through it could be a long haul
wish you the best

abetarrush · 21-12-2006 11:46AM

jonny24ie wrote:

I was in a situation similar to that a few years ago!! Me and my mam never got on really!! I do everything I can for her now, it just takes one person to stop being stubburn about things and offer the olive branch and try fix things slowly really!!
At the end of the day not matter what anyone says or how your mother acts, she still cares about you even if she doesn't show it!! No parent could ever not care about their children.

So try work it out and if it doesn't work out at least you can say you tried!!

I have tried. Im past that, that's why I'm happy with the situation. I know that I did my best, but it just didnt work out, like most things in life.

monkeyfudge wrote:

I'm in the same situation with my sister.

I have no intention of ever speaking to her again, the fact that she's a family member doesn't change a thing.

Your friends would never understand things unless they've been in your position and feel how you feel about things. People seem to love to wheel out clichés about family and xmas though.

I know. Biologically she's my mother, thats about it. Hope you sort things with your sis

Thanks for the replies everyone

Beruthiel · 21-12-2006 11:51AM

abetarrush wrote:

Just concerned because all my friends think its mad that Im not goin to see her on Christmas.

It's because they don't 'get' it.
Years ago my mother wrote and told me to never darken her door again. I won't go into why, long story. For 4 years I didn't. She would appear to have done a lot of soul searching in this time, she changed an awful lot and at this stage it's all forgotten about. It had to come from her though, it did eventually.
Something may happen in your mothers life which will make her think twice.
Without knowing what went on between the two of you I cannot comment on whither it will ever be sorted. I know you don't care. At one stage neither did I, I really and truly didn't.
It's funny how a parent can get ill, be put in hospital and all of a sudden you really actually find that you do care.
I hope your mother comes to her senses, it's a terrible thing to let anything come between you and your kids. I cannot imagine ever being able to do that to my daughter, I'd have to talk to her about it, how could you not?
The older generation just don't seem to know how to talk, that's their biggest problem.

Marksie · 21-12-2006 11:55AM

abetarrush wrote:

I have tried. Im past that, that's why I'm happy with the situation. I know that I did my best, but it just didnt work out, like most things in life.

My post was placed before i saw this.

Then you are in exactly the same situation as my friend. I don't reel out the its christmas and you have to etc.

If you have tried everything and are happy, then it is your family, noone elses

BoozyBabe · 21-12-2006 12:06PM

monkeyfudge wrote:

I'm in the same situation with my sister.

I have no intention of ever speaking to her again, the fact that she's a family member doesn't change a thing.

Your friends would never understand things unless they've been in your position and feel how you feel about things. People seem to love to wheel out clichés about family and xmas though.

Are you reading my mind?

I'm the EXACT same.

I've given my sister more too many chances to count & she just blows them all.

I don't want to get into all the reasons why I hate her, but it's just easier for me not to talk to her, not to care about her.
She doesn't exist to me, we live in the same house, but in each of our eyes, the other is invisible.
Any other way I just want to punch her silly.

The only people to have a problem with this arrangement is everyone else.
Everyone else thinks it's crazy, a disgrace etc, etc.
Yes, life's too short, too short to waste on someone who doesn't deserve your affection.

So, OP, I understand exactly where you're coming from.

Have the Christmas you want & spend it with who you want, & ignore what everyone else tells you you 'SHOULD' be doing, it's your life

LegacyUser · 21-12-2006 12:18PM

I would leave the situation exactly as it is.
She is not ready to meet U even half way.
So, don't fall for any aul stooopid sentimentality
just because of the time of year.

Talliesin · 21-12-2006 12:37PM

abetarrush wrote:

Everyone keeps sayin "but she's your Ma"

Because everyone is in a very different situation.

Well, a lot of them are. Quite a few people seem to be of the opinion that there's some sort of moral duty to pick emotional scabs and bring anguish upon oneself over Christmas as some sort of penance for not having an ideal family life. Seems pretty stupid to me. Best thing about bashing your head against a wall is it feels better when you stop.

Life's too short to keep at something that's only bringing pain.

trout · 21-12-2006 12:38PM

abetarrush wrote:

Everyone keeps sayin "but she's your Ma" but its not that simple. I dont see how Christmas is any diff from any other time. We dont talk, and Christmas wont change that. I'd feel fake and hypocritical goin down for the sake of it.[/b]

exactly ... you've answered your own question ... leave it be

i'm in the same boat with my mother, have been for seven years, and i don't think it's ever going to change ... and i'm ok with that now.

imho you have a good handle on it, move on

justsomebloke · 21-12-2006 12:51PM

marksuttonie wrote:

What is the likely outcome of no present and no visit? Will it entrench things even more?
or will giving a present and brief visit be seen as a climbdown on either of your parts?

I would have to go with this aswell, in the fact that will this entrench opinions and making things harder to resolve in the long term, but that is only if you would like for her to get back into you life in the future.

Other then that rather then a present itself, maybe just send a christmas card

JackieChan · 21-12-2006 12:54PM

Seems to be a lot of people in similar situations. I'm another.
Growing up I had a great relationship with my ma things started to get iffy during my late teens as she started to drink heavier. THis and me going out with a girl in my early 20's she did not like caused a deterioration in our relationship.I moved to the west and over 7 years she visited once. She has no time for my partner or kids only drinking. Finally I had a big argument with her 2 1/2 years ago and that was that.
I have completely removed her from my mind but I see my dad and other siblings still. She has no interest/care for my partner and kids and to me thats not acceptable.

grumpytrousers · 21-12-2006 12:59PM

think beruthiel kinda hit the nail on the head there, or at least averred to it....to the OP I'd say, hypothetically, if you were to find out at 3pm today that your ma had a serious illness how would it make you feel.

no - i mean how would it really make you feel?

Your answer to that will tell you all you need to know about how you *probably* should act.

I've been lucky enough never to have the problem to which you refer, but i'll try and keep this as cliche free as i can...

My da died 2 and a half years ago. He got a bit of a warning, and we were a bit prepared, but not for it to happen quite so fast. Certainly by the time it was too late for anything to be done to bring him back, he was high as a kite on whatever drugs they gave him for the pain and he was incoherent and unable to understand us. I was lucky enough to have a good relationship with him, and thus I knew, sorta, at the back of me mind 'well, I love him, he knows it...if he goes now, i'll not have to deal with any 'shoulda woulda couldas'

And that's the nub of it. If your insert-relative-here were to be dying this time tomorrow and wasn't able to communicate, would you feel that there's something you'd like to say.

And if the answer is yes...then you should do something. Today. Not becuase it's Christmas, just 'cos you should...

abetarrush · 21-12-2006 01:02PM

jsb wrote:

I would have to go with this aswell, in the fact that will this entrench opinions and making things harder to resolve in the long term, but that is only if you would like for her to get back into you life in the future.

Other then that rather then a present itself, maybe just send a christmas card

Well this is my first Christmas not living with her [I lived there my whole life] So i'm hoping this will be an eye-opener for her. She has so many problems to sort out [emotional and financial], all of which i offered help her with, but like I said, until she makes the move herself, she's just gonna stay miserable.

Grumptrousers
I cant answer that because I dont know how I'd feel. The way things are now I'd say I wouldnt be too upset, as theres nothin about her as a person I'd miss. No love, kindness, friendship, nothin. Whereas if it was my Dad i'd be devastated.

I prob wouldnt have any "shoulda,woulda,couldas" because I did try, hard, for a few years. If i just stopped talkin to her and made no effort then I'd probably be relivin it in my head all the time.

thanks

BeardyGit · 21-12-2006 01:25PM

I can understand that the pressures other family members put on us can be completely unreasonable - And Christmas is one of the worst times for this sort of behaviour. It would be nice to think a nice polite chat with the offenders would deal with it swiftly and painlessly, but that's unlikely to deal with these types of personalities. I'd suggest you just make your own plans and do what suits you at this time of year. If your mam isn't in YOUR plans, then she's not in your plans - Simple. I'd suggest that you don't cut off your nose to spite your face by making a real point of avoiding her either. Go where you want to go, for you, not for her - But be prepared to maybe bump into her over the holidays.... Whatever has come between the two of you is between the two of you and I guess time will tell where it all ends up.....

I have a great family I guess, compared to many others based on their account of things. Sure, we all have our problems from time to time, but in general we're pretty sorted in terms of our relationships with each other. There are occasionally rows, and with my extended family some bitter feuds, but I could never see myself using the word 'hate' as freely as BoozyBabe for example when it comes to my siblings. People who can truly hate so freely can't truly be capable of love....That's my take on it anyway.....

OP, I'm glad you're on top of things as far as I can tell. There's a certain confidence in your post and a realisation that it's not as black and white as some might like to pretend. I'd guess you love your mam, despite the past troubles between the two of you. On the back of that, maybe you should consider going to see her after all the hullabaloo of Christmas and New Year is out of the way - For *You*, not for everyone else. In your own time, and your own pace. Sadly, too many people let a little time apart to get their own house in order turn into a habit of keeping a distance, for no real reason. I hope you understand what I'm getting at. It's just a thought.

Anyway, enjoy the next week, whatever it means to you and whatever you make of it.

Gil

[Edit - Just read the last few replies as I was a bit s-l-o-w typing this one, in between doing some work

]

grumpytrousers · 21-12-2006 02:10PM

abetarrush wrote:

Grumptrousers
I cant answer that because I dont know how I'd feel. The way things are now I'd say I wouldnt be too upset, as theres nothin about her as a person I'd miss. No love, kindness, friendship, nothin. Whereas if it was my Dad i'd be devastated.

I prob wouldnt have any "shoulda,woulda,couldas" because I did try, hard, for a few years. If i just stopped talkin to her and made no effort then I'd probably be relivin it in my head all the time.

thanks

then you've at least answered the question! Fact is that on one level, our relationships with others have a lot to do with 'how would we manage if we didnt' have them'...that applies equally to friends, lovers, family...

you've asked yerself the question, you've answered the question...the fact that your friends think it's a 'bit mad' is, frankly, neither here nor there.

the only one thing i'll say is that you say yourself "I do feel a bit bad, and she'll prob feel bad that I dont go down to her", and if that level of you feeling bad means that you honestly in your heart of hearts thinks it's the right thing to do, then nobody around here will ever know, and it might be the best thing you do all christmas.

Or you might get rebuffed and find yourself thinking 'that's the last time i ask for advice on the interweb'.

either way, have a good christmas...

Talliesin · 21-12-2006 02:23PM

grumpytrousers wrote:

to the OP I'd say, hypothetically, if you were to find out at 3pm today that your ma had a serious illness how would it make you feel.

From the post it looks like you should be saying that to the OP's mother, not the OP.

BoozyBabe · 21-12-2006 02:28PM

Gil_Dub wrote:

I could never see myself using the word 'hate' as freely as BoozyBabe for example when it comes to my siblings. People who can truly hate so freely can't truly be capable of love....That's my take on it anyway.....

That's your opinion & you're very entitled to it, but I can assure you I am VERY capable of love & show it in everything I do to everyone I meet, that is, all but one.

& to that ONE person, when I say hate, I mean it, & it's not a word I use freely at all, in fact, I can't think of another time or person where I could apply the word.

BeardyGit · 21-12-2006 03:38PM

BoozyBabe wrote:

That's your opinion & you're very entitled to it, but I can assure you I am VERY capable of love & show it in everything I do to everyone I meet, that is, all but one.

& to that ONE person, when I say hate, I mean it, & it's not a word I use freely at all, in fact, I can't think of another time or person where I could apply the word.

You are the one who drew a parallel with MonkeyFudge who has stated he's in the same position as the OP when it comes to his relationship with his sister.

I would respectfully point out that the nature of your relationship with your sisters is quite different to that of the OP and her mother. Not only that, but repeatedly stating you HATE your sister detracts further from any perceived parallel you wish to draw. I don't believe for one minute that the OP hates her mother - Whereas you state you HATE your sister. Very different situations I think many will agree.

Unfortunately for you, this hatred can only badly skew any advice you give the OP. For this reason, I drew attention to the very negative emotion that's obviously behind your own advice. Don't take it personally. I'm sure you have your own reasons.... Let's leave it for another time though as this isn't about you in essence.

Anyway. Good luck OP.

slemons · 21-12-2006 05:01PM

we dont know the story so we cant comment on your personal situation but id do anything for my ma or da.

All i can say is when you think you've given her all the chances in the world then give her a few more and really work at it. You'll regret it otherwise

LundiMardi · 21-12-2006 07:38PM

I'm the same, haven't seen my dad in over a year i think now.. I won't see him this xmas, i doubt i'll talk to him or get him a present... He only lives 15 minutes away.

Do i care? I guess not..

Why will i not see him? I dunno, just grew apart, never even fell out.

Just make sure you have a happy xmas regardless of any family situation, so Happy Xmas one and all;)

Nevyn · 21-12-2006 08:11PM

We forgive a lot of those that are family,
we put up with things that we would not from other people or friends
but there comes to a stage esp between parent and child where there
has to be a level of respect and if is not there then the relationship can become abusive and detracting.

There are somethings we can not put up with from strangers, workmates, friends and even more so from family who are ment to love us, everyone has thier breaking point and thier cut off limit.

Sometimes you are better of with good people in your life who do love you
and for a lot of people that does not include family or certain family members.

King of Kings · 21-12-2006 09:17PM

LundiMardi wrote:

I'm the same, haven't seen my dad in over a year i think now.. I won't see him this xmas, i doubt i'll talk to him or get him a present... He only lives 15 minutes away.

Do i care? I guess not..

Why will i not see him? I dunno, just grew apart, never even fell out.

Just make sure you have a happy xmas regardless of any family situation, so Happy Xmas one and all;)

that sounds easily sortable...why not make the effort?

jimmycrackcorm · 21-12-2006 09:29PM

abetarrush wrote:

Long story short. I havent got on with my Ma for about 2 years, and I moved into my Dad's house in Feb and she hasnt once called and asked how I am

And I'm fine with that

So its Christmas, and I dont have any plans to visit her, or get her a present. Everyone keeps sayin "but she's your Ma" but its not that simple. I dont see how Christmas is any diff from any other time. We dont talk, and Christmas wont change that. I'd feel fake and hypocritical goin down for the sake of it.

I have tried to sort things out, for the last 3 years or so, but I just reached a point where I realised the change has to come from her. You can bring a camel to water... as they say, its like talkin to a wall

So what do ye think? I do feel a bit bad, and she'll prob feel bad that I dont go down to her, but she pretty much ignored me when I left, and didnt do anything to sort the trouble that made me have to leave. Im not holdin a grudge or anything, I've moved on, and im fine with the whole situation. Just concerned because all my friends think its mad that Im not goin to see her on Christmas.

Thanks for readin!

Abe

Look, The spirit of Christmas is about giving. So you can keep not getting on with your ma and the situation won't change, but you making an effort to get a present and go visit says and does more for yourself than anything else.

vawns · 21-12-2006 10:11PM

Hi Abe,

I don't think you're mad either. Maybe your Mum's desperate to get back in touch with you but doesn't know how to make the first step because of how she left things. Why don't you give her a call and say that you were thinking of her because it's Christmas? That way you've made the effort, done the best you can and let her know that you're thinking about her - then it's up to her to make the next step.

Hope this helps,

Take care of yourself,

Vawns x

gypsygirl · 22-12-2006 01:23AM

Christmas should'nt change how we feel; Be Honest, I never send my sister a card or present 'cos I don't care for her, if you don't care about your mum, sending her a card or present is hypocritical, don't sent her one if you don't care; it sends the wrong message.

abetarrush · 22-12-2006 01:34AM

gypsygirl wrote:

Christmas should'nt change how we feel; Be Honest, I never send my sister a card or present 'cos I don't care for her, if you don't care about your mum, sending her a card or present is hypocritical, don't sent her one if you don't care; it sends the wrong message.

I do care about her, I just don't get on with her

Like I said I've done more than my fair share of trying. She lives 10 mins away from me. She has a phone, has my number, address. theres really no problem in that sense. Its all down to her coming to her emotional senses

Thanks for the help

Merry Christmas guys

deisemum · 22-12-2006 11:03AM

Thaedydal wrote:

We forgive a lot of those that are family,
we put up with things that we would not from other people or friends
but there comes to a stage esp between parent and child where there
has to be a level of respect and if is not there then the relationship can become abusive and detracting.

There are somethings we can not put up with from strangers, workmates, friends and even more so from family who are ment to love us, everyone has thier breaking point and thier cut off limit.

Sometimes you are better of with good people in your life who do love you
and for a lot of people that does not include family or certain family members.

Have to agree with this, I've had nothing to do with my so called mother for the last 3 and 1/2 years. I've never had a good relationship with her but it reached the stage where I couldn't take anymore and have to put my own family first.

I know I never want anything to do with her again. My children really hate her. I don't hate her but at this stage I suppose I only feel pity for her. She's an extremely cruel nasty person.

BobTheBeat · 22-12-2006 11:04AM

You and your family are the only people with proper prespective on this. Its fine for your mates to have a few words to say on it,but in reality they didnt go through what you've gone through. Its their opinion and they are entitled to it.

To take up grumpytrousers point, berievement is a very dark time for anybody affected. As someone who bore witness to a similar family situation, I can guarantee that no matter how angry and bitter you might feel about someone and the things they have done to you, death has a handy way of putting everything into perspective for you.

Forget about the time of year reference. Christmas means fcuk all to most people these days, so dont feel as if you are obliged to make it up.
As you have said, the change has to come from your mothers part.But Be sure that there is nothing you havent visited or said, that could possibly precipitate this for you.

"It is better to laugh with the living than mourn with the dead"

Best of Luck

LegacyUser · 22-12-2006 07:27PM

Hey Abe,

Last christmas I was completely unwelcome in my mother and her partners house,for reasons that were completely unrelated to me but it got vented at me.
The holidays last year were long and it was my 1st christmas in my new house,
Now I don't get on well with them,couldn't live with them but I still felt hurt over it but I forgave them,and despite all the crap last year I will go to their house on christmas day.
I think what I am trying to say is be the adult,send her a card or a text message wishing her seasons greetings, this is not you giving in or forgiving her but acknowledging that you are above bad manners etc.
I dunno what your situation is or what happened but it kills me inside everytime I have to say I am wrong or appologise just to settle a fight when I really shouldn't have to.
It is hard but don't let it be a battle of stubbornness sometimes it is worth it to swallow your pride a small bit and make a move but do not let her have the upper hand ,it is on your terms and only your terms.
On the other hand you may well be better iwth out her and in this case don't worry about it,you have your own life with out her.

I hope you have a lovely christmas

Hope you have a lovely christmas

Kinetic^ · 22-12-2006 11:21PM

monkeyfudge wrote:

Your friends would never understand things unless they've been in your position and feel how you feel about things.

So so true!!!!

Ickle Magoo · 22-12-2006 11:33PM

I think anyone telling the OP to get a present & go give it to his mother & build bridges is missing the whole point...

OP,

She's the adult, you are her child. If she cannot find it in her heart to see you or talk to you or want to be a loving, caring mother to you - then I don't see why you should have to take up the reins where she has failed. Parents have a responsibility to be a good, fair, loving parent regardless of what **** life throws at them. I really don't see how it is automatically your responsibility to be the adult here because she refuses & it is the festive season, unless you choose to take on that responsibility, of course.

Maybe send you mother a Christmas card, just sign it - you don't need to write a message. Does she have your number? Maybe put that on it too & let her know the lines of communication are still open. I'm disgusted you are making more of an effort to be a son than she is a mother. :mad:

Best of luck to you.

abetarrush · 23-12-2006 09:52PM

Thanks Ickle Magoo!

Victor · 24-12-2006 12:56AM

Ickle Magoo wrote:

She's the adult, you are her child.

I don't know how old abetarrush is, but he seems to be more than a child. Parents need to realise their children have become (young) adults and children need to accept their parents are their parents.

Maybe send you mother a Christmas card, just sign it - you don't need to write a message.

Indeed.

Long term, would you consider some form of family counselling?

walrusgumble · 24-12-2006 04:00AM

the exact same situation with me, but with my father. as far as chrismas is concerned it means f&^k all to me anymore. He had a fantastic way of destroying them for us, even 2 christmas ago which had had been barred from home and separated from my mam.

unlike your mam he tried to stay in contact. made the effort to at least be civil and start a frienshp but again he fu&ked up.

my advice, call her. if she aint interested well then f&ck her. u made the effort. she has not bothered with you all year what makes anyone think she will do now?

before anyone goes ah its christmas or ah she your mam or ah dont hold grudges, please note its just advice in the event the mother indicates she aint interested. its christmas enjoy yourself and dont let her put you down, it be hard enough as it is without having a united family never mind a mother or father who does not bother with you for most of the year or at christmas.

if she does does not make the effort, you know where you stand, dont let her hurt you , just walk away from her. good luck though

abetarrush · 25-12-2006 01:57AM

Victor wrote:

I don't know how old abetarrush is, but he seems to be more than a child. Parents need to realise their children have become (young) adults and children need to accept their parents are their parents.
Indeed.

Long term, would you consider some form of family counselling?

I'm 18, 19 soon

Nah, she wouldnt need that as theres nothin wrong with the way she is [/sarcasm]

Ickle Magoo · 26-12-2006 08:48AM

Victor wrote:

I don't know how old abetarrush is, but he seems to be more than a child.

My child will always be my child, regardless of their age...they will always be my child & I will always be their parent.

If ever my child (ie not the parent in the relationship, rather than under the age of 18;) ) had to come, cap in hand, to beg me to act as a mother to them, then I would consider myself a very bad parent indeed.

Christmas and Not talkin to my ma

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