Well, that's a kick in my careers teeth!

johnnyskeleton wrote:

Contact them first, they might make an execption for you. If you explain that it is a two year post grad degree, they might accept it.

The head of Friary Law, who is also a fellow of the world institute of arbitration, who serves on; the Irish bar; New York State Bare; and US Supreme Court Bar, and who is a lecturer in Trinity College Dublin took them to court in the US last year in an attempt to get them to allow two year LL.B. students in. They refused to change their stance on the issue.

mountainyman wrote:

What does this mean? I smell horse sh1t.

If you go to work for a firm in London or another major European/Western country, you have to sit their qualifying exam before you can work there. If you are NY qualified, you can work there without doing their exam. Then, such as in London, after 2 years, you are eligible for a short conversion exam. Much like that QLTT offered by the Irish Law Society for people qualified in a different jurisdiction coming to work here. It's a much easier and faster way of doing things.

Stirling wrote:

Morbo hate to take the wind out of your sails but have to say that I would seriously have to advise you to have a rethink about this.

I know someone who has spoken to the Managing Partner of one of the biggest Law Firms in the country who has himself worked in the US and he reckoned that without an LLM there first in either Harvard or Yale you are completely wasting your time and money. Think about it for a second - if there are 1200 people looking for Law jobs here every year how many more are there looking in the US. Let's face it if there are enough people doing the exams in Ireland for Friary Law to set up then there must be exceptional demand and so I wouldn't be all that confident that jobs are just waiting to be filled.

Law is a long route to qualification and I really don't believe this is going to be the benefit to you that you think it will be.

I'd just like to say, it is extremely rare for an American lawyer to have an LL.M. The do a 4 year undergrad in humanities, then a 3 year JD course in law. By this point, before they ever see the inside of a law firm, they are about $250,000 in debt with student loans. The prospect of forking out another $40,000 to do an LL.M. doesn't really appeal to them. I already stated that the reason I want to do the NYSB is to increase my chances of getting into an LL.M. course in one of the big universities in the US. This is basically to add brand value to me as a commodity. So if and when I do go out looking for work in the US, I will have an LL.M. from the US. And when you go on percentages, Ireland produces far more law graduates than there are places in the country, compared with the US. You have to remember, it's a much longer route for them to get a legal degree. In Ireland you can get your degree and be through Blackhall and qualified by 24. In America, you'd probably just be starting your second year of three in law school. I have researched this are to the death. Trust me, there is no real gamble involved in my decision. I am not a stupid risk taker.

Also, "the Managing Partner of one of the biggest Law Firms in the country who has himself worked in the US." Ever wonder why he's a managing partner and not just an associate or regular partner? Well, it’s probably because he built up a reputation for himself in the US, and came across far more in his daily practice than most people would come across in a year in a two partner firm in Offaly. (Not slagging Offaly, but let's face it, it's not a real business/legal centre!)

maidhc wrote:

Meh. Its not that bad. Work for one of the big 5 and you sell your soul to the devil for about 10k extra per year, which won't even cover your extra costs if you have to live in dublin.

I wouldn't ever want to live or work in Dublin. I cannot stand that city. I’d consider living in Dublin to being akin to having sold my soul. No offence to anyone from Dublin, it's just not for me.

The real problem here is that Irish people only see the big picture within Irish borders. We have the attitude of, “sure I’d never get a job in London or New York in law! Why bother trying.” It is very easy to be a success in another jurisdiction. Irish people just think we have the best we can ever hope for here, as if the rest of the world is a place where only minimum wage jobs are available. I call it J1 syndrome. We go to America for a summer and work construction, or as bag boys, or some other menial existence, for no money and think, “wow, there’s no money to be made here!”

Yes, we Cork men are not fond of Dublin. It's either Cork as the capital, or Éire 31! (That's a unified Ireland, minus Cork. It's a common joke in Cork.) I'm sure you have seen the People Republic of Cork t-shirts going around.

But seriously though, I've lived in Boston, Chicago, New York and London. Dublin doesn't hold a candle to those places. There are scumbags in every city, unfortunately, nobody told ‘Anto’ and his hooded mates they weren't welcome in Dublin city centre!

Despite what everyone thinks, New York, Chicago, London and Boston are all very safe cities. And besides, I'm from the north side of Cork City, and I've been living and studying in Limerick for 5 years. I'd feel safer in Washington Heights in Harlem than Limerick City!

It's make a name for yourself in a big city, and then come home to retire in Cork at 50. That's my plan! It's not a very feasible plan, but I can dream damn it!

Well, if you are from Kerry, chances are you were born in Cork. Like the vast majority of Kerry people. So therefore, you are one of us! Having no hospital in Kerry is a sneaky way for Cork to slowly expand West Cork into Kerry.

maidhc wrote:

I have worked in Washington DC as a legal intern, and while I enjoyed it was just as happy to get home.

My ideal situation is to finish my apprenticeship, pass my AITI exams, and set up a small practice asap. From doing a research LLM last year I hope to pick up bits of niche work along the way. It may not work out, but one can hope!

I love Cork. Don't get me wrong. But I have no problem in living away from home. I don't get home sick or anything like that. I really don't care where I am in the world. I just want to live and work in the US legal system for the learning experience. It is the legal capital of the world, really. The idea is to get a good base, and come home and open a business here, like you want to. There are three of us in the class that wish to go into business together in Ireland, but not before we get our experience abroad.

As for doing the AITI exams, one of the people in the group wants to go down that road, as his base is economics, and he's into taxation law. That's not for me though. I’m all about international trade, WTO, commercial law, company law, contracts and such. The other guy is into criminal justice. As you can see, all the areas we are interested in are massive areas of law in the States. Maybe I'll even come back to Ireland to open and office on behalf of a US or EU multi-national? Now there’s a dream for ya!

And best of luck with the exams.

There’s allot of money to be made in conveyance. I’m not exactly out to save the world; I want to retire as soon as possible. To do that, I’ll need a fortune! 6 years of college so far and 65 seems an awfully long way away! I want out at about 40 (unless I make it onto the bench, then I’ll hang around to give out the maximum sentence possible in every case, and brutalise the criminals!). Then I’m just going to sit back and have a few kids so I can torment them. You know, to give me something to do until I die.

maidhc wrote:

Not a hope.

You wouldn't consider doing the FE-1s? You can stay in Cork, and depending on your training solicitor it won't cost anything.

You will end up conveyancing and being a general dogsbody for a few years though.

That’s my point exactly! I’m a smart guy. I don’t want to be an apprentice at the age of 26, making no money. It’s going to cost me about €20,000 just to sit the FE-1’s, and then I have to spend along time as an apprentice. Not allot of people have their fees covered by their employer, and I don’t have any relations or friends of the family in the legal profession that can pull strings for me. The NYSB costs $400 to sit, and you are qualified to handle life or death murder trials as soon as you pass! And when you have a NYSB accreditation, you can do the QLTT for the Law Society of Ireland, which costs €625 in total! You are then qualified as a solicitor in this jurisdiction, and can be hired as a first year associate. This basically allows you to bypass your apprenticeship, make more money faster, and save yourself about €18,000 in the getting qualified process. Plus, you’d be a Solicitor~at~Law, and an Attorney~at~Law.