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Jumpin through hoops on the soccer forum

  • 10-05-2007 03:33PM
    #1
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭


    What's with all the red tape about joining the soccer forum. As a Sunderland season ticket holder for several years now, I am obviously a soccer visionary, and my wisdom would be an asset on the soccer forum. So, I steps out of my usual comfort zone of the biology/medicine forum to post something about my beloved black cats.

    Anyway, I get there, and there's some blokes ranting on in the charter about how it's my "privelege" to be there, and basically bollocking people in advance. For the privelege of being able to talk soccer with these guys, you then have to find 2 hidden words somewhere and post them on yet another forum, with some pre-formulated agreement about how you promise to be good!

    Now I've just come off the nightshift and couldn't even find the words I needed to cut and paste, so I've left it alone. The tone of the charter also seems pretty unfriendly.

    But I was just wondering if it was really neccessary? I mean, why do you have to send some mesage saying you agree to abide by the rules etc, when it in no way forms the basis of any binding agreement. In fact, we all know some mods on other forums will ban people on a whim without relying on any kind of disclaimer.

    All seems a bit bizarre to me. Seems to be taken a bit too seriously by whoever is running it. But I'd be interested to know the resoning behind it.

    Kind regards,

    Tallaght01, special advisor to Niall Quinn, and football jedi
    Post edited by Shield on


«1

Comments

  • #2
    c - 13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭c - 13


    I'm not a member of that forum myself but I believe one of the reasons for the strict entry guidlines and charter was to prevent people joining up simply to post "Y0r3 te4M r teh G4yz"" threads.


  • #3
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Because back in the day, the soccer forum was a big pile of whinging, bitching, fighting idiots. Everyone who got banned, seemed determined to return and fight the corner of a team who live 100s of miles away and for whom they have no familial connections.

    There was far too much work involved in it. There were two options: Make it request-only, or close it.

    So they went with the former. After a number of incarnations, you have the existing system. Having to jump through so many hoops, people are a little more reluctant to spout abuse or otherwise get banned, because they know they'll never get back in.

    I hear the forum is much nicer place to be these days.


  • #4
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    lol

    is that the soccur forum's version of "Yore Ma!" ?

    I don't see how getting people to cut and paste a couple of lines, and to skim the charter for 2 italicised words would prevent that though.

    But I was just curious more than anything. Like I said, I didn't bother applying coz the tone was pretty unfriendly and patronising to be honest.

    But if that's their reasoning, then fair enough.


  • #5
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Fair enough, Seamus, but I don't see why they don't just ban people who are abusive or whatever, like they do on other threads. The copy and pasting thing just seems silly.

    Plus, abusing the opposition fans if my fave thing about the footie :P


  • #6
    aidan_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    tallaght01 wrote:
    Fair enough, Seamus, but I don't see why they don't just ban people who are abusive or whatever, like they do on other threads. The copy and pasting thing just seems silly.

    Plus, abusing the opposition fans if my fave thing about the footie :P
    Because unlike other forums, you would still have to jump through the registration hoops to get your highly cunning come back when you register your second account.


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  • #7
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    but the mods keep telling us how they can spot these 2nd accounts a mile off ;)


  • #8
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,400 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    On another note...is there an inactivity clause?

    I was granted access ages ago but when I tried to post the other day I was told I didn't have permissions? :confused:

    I wasn't that bothered and I won't be re-applying simply because of the system.

    /I'm not complaining about the system and the fact that I'm not bothered going through the rigmarole is testament to the fact that the system works and is good at keeping out those would-be duplicate account muppets :)


  • #9
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    tallaght01 wrote:
    but the mods keep telling us how they can spot these 2nd accounts a mile off ;)
    They can. It's having to continually ban them that's a pain in the ass.

    There was also a similar issue keeping track of bans. So many people were getting banned that the mods couldn't keep track of who banned who and when, and so when a user asked to be unbanned, it was a headache to try and find out if the ban was finished.

    I don't even have access to the soccer forum :)


  • #10
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,142 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    tallaght01 wrote:
    but the mods keep telling us how they can spot these 2nd accounts a mile off ;)

    I can spot yore ma a mile off.


  • #11
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Stark wrote:
    I can spot yore ma a mile off.

    lol, and yore ma can spot my knob a mile off ;)


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  • #12
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    If you have to jump through hoops to get access you will think twice about doing all that just to insult someone. You'll also think twice about insulting others if you realise you will have to go through all that again to get access again. And we regularly ban second accounts btw...

    DeV.


  • #13
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Really seems a shame that it can't be just moderated like the other forums. Are they just thin on the ground for mods on the soccer forum?

    But to be honest, dude, I thhink you should embrace the culture of abusive rivaly. It would do you good. It's the only reason i go to the local derbys :D


  • #14
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,782 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Why does soccer have a bad name again?

    The reason keeps on getting away from me.


  • #15
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    tallaght01 wrote:
    I thhink you should embrace the culture of abusive rivaly.


    I think this is the reason you're searching for, hulla. :rolleyes:

    Personally, I wouldn't mind having an odd post now and again, but it's like having a conversation with 6 year-olds.

    Have a look at the American Football Forum or the Rugby forum; there's none of that childish nonsense. The average soccer fan is immature, much like the superstars they revere.


  • #16
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    We're not all mormons!

    Mike.


  • #17
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    tallaght01 wrote:
    Are they just thin on the ground for mods on the soccer forum?
    Just not paid enough to put up with the childish crap.


  • #18
    zAbbo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,985 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    copying and pasting is a crude way to ensure you read the rules, as they are slightly different from other forums.


  • #19
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,662 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Ive no interest in the soccer forum but as i read it, technically someone with no interest in football could get access to the forum?


  • #20
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    mike65 wrote:
    We're not all mormons!

    Mike.

    That's great, Mike. This is about the religion called soccer, not mormonism.


  • #21
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    The soccer forum is probably one of the most difficult to moderate, along with AH, PI and Politics, with the added bonus that there is a rivalry, ranging from friendly to hostile between most of the groups of posters.

    By and large, the forum brings out the worst in people, and I've seen everything from threats of physical violence to attempted blackmail in there.
    (one poster threathened to try and make my life on boards difficult because I warned him/her about trolling :rolleyes:).

    Those are extreme cases, for the most part the problem was merely abuse that almost always escalated out of hand and the fact that no matter what the topic, it degenerated into a pissing contest between a group of posters.

    Because of posters like this, the forum was closed because it became too difficult to moderate. Eventually it was reopened and the main offenders were banned. However, the ease of dual accounts and the pain of having to repeatedly check posters that pop up everywhere was too much, so the forum was made private and access was granted by the mods only to new users who were vouched for by current members. The crux was, if the new member got banned, so did the person who vouched for them.

    This calmed things down no end and slowly the access rules were relaxed.

    Since I became a soccer mod (after all of the above), I've pretty much looked after access requests. We pretty much just asked that users read and agree to follow to charter. However, since maybe 70% of people requesting access did neither, I felt it best to just give them the agreement to copy paste and then add in identifier words so that they must at least access the charter.

    Even then, we still get people who get it wrong, but it's down to about 10% now. When you get 20 requests a week at times and you have to screen each request to make sure it's not a troll account, it's not unreasonable to expect people to have read the instructions correctly.

    All in all, it's better than it was. If you think the vouching system is better or can think of an alternative, I'm all ears.


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  • #22
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,718 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Slow coach wrote:
    I think this is the reason you're searching for, hulla. :rolleyes:

    Personally, I wouldn't mind having an odd post now and again, but it's like having a conversation with 6 year-olds.

    Have a look at the American Football Forum or the Rugby forum; there's none of that childish nonsense. The average soccer fan is immature, much like the superstars they revere.

    holy generalisations batman. talk about having a chip on your shoulder.

    There are 100s of thousands of soccer fans in Ireland, prob more than any other sport, how you think you can generalise to such an extent is beyond me. Not exactly showing much maturity either!

    With the system the guys have in place there is plenty of lively discussion, most of it above the 6 year old level.


  • #23
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    psi wrote:
    ...and the fact that no matter what the topic, it degenerated into a pissing contest between a group of posters.

    Maybe this is the reason. I did use the phrase "average soccer fan" and there's plenty of room outside of this for the decentskin.


  • #24
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    Plus, abusing the opposition fans if my fave thing about the footie :P

    Maybe that's why...


  • #25
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    seamus wrote:
    Because back in the day, the soccer forum was a big pile of whinging, bitching, fighting idiots. Everyone who got banned, seemed determined to return and fight the corner of a team who live 100s of miles away and for whom they have no familial connections.

    and it's different now...?:D


  • #26
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    r3nu4l wrote:
    On another note...is there an inactivity clause?

    I was granted access ages ago but when I tried to post the other day I was told I didn't have permissions? :confused:

    Checked the access lists and there is no entry for you.

    Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

    If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.


  • #27
    WhiteWashMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    psi wrote:
    The soccer forum is probably one of the most difficult to moderate, along with AH, PI and Politics, with the added bonus that there is a rivalry, ranging from friendly to hostile between most of the groups of posters.

    its only difficult if you make it difficult. personally, i dont see where the problem is. i think its something for the mods to hide behind myself.
    psi wrote:
    By and large, the forum brings out the worst in people, and I've seen everything from threats of physical violence to attempted blackmail in there.
    (one poster threathened to try and make my life on boards difficult because I warned him/her about trolling :rolleyes:).

    oh well then....
    psi wrote:
    Those are extreme cases, for the most part the problem was merely abuse that almost always escalated out of hand and the fact that no matter what the topic, it degenerated into a pissing contest between a group of posters.


    and strangley enough, people who have never posted there before bear the brunt of this, while the tossers that youa re talking about here, are still regular posters, and still have the same arguments, and the same pissing contests, just without saying 'yore ma' in every other post. seems like things are sorted alright.
    psi wrote:
    Because of posters like this, the forum was closed because it became too difficult to moderate. Eventually it was reopened and the main offenders were banned. However, the ease of dual accounts and the pain of having to repeatedly check posters that pop up everywhere was too much, so the forum was made private and access was granted by the mods only to new users who were vouched for by current members. The crux was, if the new member got banned, so did the person who vouched for them.

    This calmed things down no end and slowly the access rules were relaxed..

    i dont know why you didnt just ban people the way any other forum does. seriously, its like the soccer forum needs an admin to sort it out every now and then, like a big brother approach.
    psi wrote:
    .


    Even then, we still get people who get it wrong, but it's down to about 10% now. When you get 20 requests a week at times and you have to screen each request to make sure it's not a troll account, it's not unreasonable to expect people to have read the instructions correctly.


    thats right, people get it wrong. its a good thing that youre never wrong. you know, like banning people from fora for something they say somewhere else. you know, that sort of stuff.

    and yes, it is unreasonable. they want to post something about their team, they dont want a pre-nup agreement with you.
    psi wrote:

    All in all, it's better than it was. If you think the vouching system is better or can think of an alternative, I'm all ears.


    yes, open up the forum again, and ban people for bannable offences. and stop having the little moderators football club where people get away with name calling, yet some newbie gets banned for ever because they didnt read the charter.

    but i know all i will get from psi is the usual 'yawn' response for the simple reason that he wont engage in any conversation with me. and thats ok.

    but if anyone can be arsed, why not start your own football forum on here. personally i think the soccer forum should be made private, and a new one opened that is opened to anyone who wants to post on it. hell, stick it under the AH structure and i'll look after it.
    the soccer forum should be for soccer fans, not restricted to people who can follow a number of pointless directions.


  • #28
    WhiteWashMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    psi wrote:
    Checked the access lists and there is no entry for you.

    Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

    If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.


    i though you did all the requests?

    but sure, im sure he was just mistaken about applying, coz god knows you couldnt make a mistake.


  • #29
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    WhiteWashMan wrote:
    its only difficult if you make it difficult. personally, i dont see where the problem is. i think its something for the mods to hide behind myself.
    From what I understand, the Admins weren't overly happy about moving from the "vouching system" to the less stringent access request system. I'm not sure what the take is now.
    and strangley enough, people who have never posted there before bear the brunt of this, while the tossers that youa re talking about here, are still regular posters, and still have the same arguments, and the same pissing contests, just without saying 'yore ma' in every other post. seems like things are sorted alright.
    Actually, most of the "tossers" have calmed down, with one or two exceptions, so obviously it works well enough. But again, I wasn't involved in letting them back in.
    i dont know why you didnt just ban people the way any other forum does. seriously, its like the soccer forum needs an admin to sort it out every now and then, like a big brother approach.
    The soccer forum system is the aftermath of an Admin decision. You seem to think that I had some role to play in it, I wasn't around when this happened.
    thats right, people get it wrong. its a good thing that youre never wrong. you know, like banning people from fora for something they say somewhere else. you know, that sort of stuff.
    *yawn*
    and yes, it is unreasonable. they want to post something about their team, they dont want a pre-nup agreement with you.
    Perhaps it is but the evidence shows that, with the exception of 2-3 posters who were part responsible for getting the place closed to begin with, most of the posters prefer the forum now to when it was open access.
    yes, open up the forum again, and ban people for bannable offences. and stop having the little moderators football club where people get away with name calling, yet some newbie gets banned for ever because they didnt read the charter.
    You're talking about to separate fora there I think. I try cover as many posts as I can, I miss things, so do you I'm sure. If I miss it, I just hope it's reported.

    but i know all i will get from psi is the usual 'yawn' response for the simple reason that he wont engage in any conversation with me. and thats ok.
    Let me see, I *yawn* when you make a personal or trolling remark that really has no bearing on whatever point your dancing around. I mean, as I said before, when I entered into a long discussion with you on the forum moderation, if you actually made your points, clearly, coherently and without the need to be personal or try rise me, then maybe we could get somewhere.

    While you continue to post in an ignorant, abusive manner, I don't see why I should respond with anything more than *yawn* - which is at least an honest response to how I feel about most of the posts you aim at me.
    the soccer forum should be for soccer fans, not restricted to people who can follow a number of pointless directions.
    If the admins want to replace, restructure or open the soccer forum, that's for them to decide.

    You often seem more interested in having a direct go at me for the failings of the soccer forum, which you may do. But you repeatedly refuse to accept the fact that most of the descisions were made before I was a soccer mod and made by admins after consulting with the previous mods.

    I can only work in the aftermath of what happened, and while some of the system, I agree, is less than ideal, we are actively reviewing things, maybe changes will happen in the closed season.

    But if you continue to suggest that I made lots of bad descisions on the structure of the forum, when you should well know at this stage, is untrue, all I can do is *yawn*.


  • #30
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    WhiteWashMan wrote:
    i though you did all the requests?

    but sure, im sure he was just mistaken about applying, coz god knows you couldnt make a mistake.

    I do most of the requests, T4TF does them aswell though.

    I think I admitted the chance of me making a mistake with
    psi wrote:
    Either you weren't actually granted access

    Whether I made the mistake depends on whether he applied before I was a mod or not and whether I handled the request.

    You are familiar with the concept of past and present? right? Oh and reading things properly helps.


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  • #31
    WhiteWashMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    *yawn*

    time you started being a mod. or better yet, stopped being one.


  • #32
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,400 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    psi wrote:
    Checked the access lists and there is no entry for you.

    Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

    If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.

    Ah so my eyes decieve me then do they? Nice one, job well done Psi!!
    See here.
    r3nu4l wrote:
    I'd like access please, I've read the rules for asking for access and the charter for the forum and everything and anything else I could see . :)

    I have been on boards.ie for greater than 2 months time and have more than 50 posts. I will comply with the charter as requested.
    Psi wrote:
    granted

    Nice to see you are so on top of things ;) Perhaps a few more mods are needed on that forum after all!

    Yes you were mod at the time. Yes you did grant me access. Yes you did make a mistake...but we are all human after all :D

    /Finally, I'm not actually that bothered so I don't mind if you decide not to grant me access after all.


  • #33
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,113 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Why all the fuss about some dudes, in a different country, in shorts and getting paid too much to kick a ball around?
    holy generalisations batman. talk about having a chip on your shoulder.

    There are 100s of thousands of soccer fans in Ireland, prob more than any other sport, how you think you can generalise to such an extent is beyond me. Not exactly showing much maturity either!

    With the system the guys have in place there is plenty of lively discussion, most of it above the 6 year old level.
    I find that most of the fans that actually wear the shirts in everyday life are pricks, generalisations can be true.


  • #34
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    generalisations can also be the tool of a lazy mind, Tar Aldarion. If I slap on my Sunderland shirt today, I don't see it making any difference to my behaviour. Thousands of people wear soccer jerseys and I can't imagine how you would have such a wide social circle as to know that "most" of them are "pricks", as you so eloquently put it.

    I still stand by my original point. I still think that we should be allowed discuss soccer on boards without having to navigate through an unneccesarily unfriendly charter, cut and paste some nonsense and promise we won't be bold boys. It's like a combination of being back at school and being a known criminal!

    I think it just needs proper moderation.

    I think r3nu4l should moderate it. He's the most sensible and reasonable mod that I've had contact with on boards. Can't be that different to the bowling forum, can it? :P


  • #35
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,113 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    From observational evidence alone, if you wear that sunderland shirt most days, you are 73% more likely to be a prick than other people. That rises to a shocking 89% if it is a celtic shirt, with a 68% chance of wantingto keep 'brits' out.


  • #36
    raido9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭raido9


    Tar.Aldarion wrote:
    Why all the fuss about some dudes, in a different country, in shorts and getting paid too much to kick a ball around?


    I find that most of the fans that actually wear the shirts in everyday life are pricks, generalisations can be true.
    And I've found that most people that have 17,031 posts and mod 4 forums are complete nerds with no life away from the internet, but I'm sure thats not true! ;)


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  • #37
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,113 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    No, it's true. I'm at home in mothers at the moment. But when I move out, boy howdy, the life of dungeons and dragons I will lead.


  • #38
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,400 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    tallaght01 wrote:
    I think it just needs proper moderation.

    I think r3nu4l should moderate it. He's the most sensible and reasonable mod that I've had contact with on boards. Can't be that different to the bowling forum, can it? :P

    Aw stop, I'm blushing :D Ha, no chance, I wouldn't be a soccer mod even if they started paying people to mod it. The abuse those guys have to put up with just wouldn't be worth it.

    Although I do agree that there are striking similarities between bowling and soccer...there is a ball used in both sports, ten pins in bowling...11 players on a soccer team...prizes for winning competitions...

    I'm sure you've noticed too that the bowling forum is a hive of activity, abuse and trolling and is sooo difficult to mod what with all the bannings, locked threads, edited posts and moved threads :D


  • #39
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,113 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Are people frequesntly called back end baby splits? Or exclaiming 'stfu noob, I have a Blue Hammer' :D


  • #40
    therecklessone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    Tar.Aldarion wrote:
    Why all the fuss about some dudes, in a different country, in shorts and getting paid too much to kick a ball around?

    We talk about football in this country as well...sometimes.


  • #41
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    r3nu4l wrote:
    Ah so my eyes decieve me then do they? Nice one, job well done Psi!!

    Yes you were mod at the time. Yes you did grant me access. Yes you did make a mistake...but we are all human after all :D

    /Finally, I'm not actually that bothered so I don't mind if you decide not to grant me access after all.


    Well I said either/or, if you read the post I suggested that I may not have actually given you access. It happens, people make mistakes, it'll probably happen again.

    Mind you, all you had to PM me with the thread to sort it out to begin with.

    Anyways, it's sorted now.


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  • #42
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    psi wrote:
    All in all, it's better than it was. If you think the vouching system is better or can think of an alternative, I'm all ears.

    I'll give it a go! :D Break the forum into three, Liverpool fans, Man Utd fans, and soccer fans. Let the two "red" fora be by invite only and the Soccer forum be open access with the restriction that posters mentioning the teams of the other two fora get a ban. ;)


  • #43
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,400 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    psi wrote:
    Well I said either/or, if you read the post I suggested that I may not have actually given you access. It happens, people make mistakes, it'll probably happen again.

    Mind you, all you had to PM me with the thread to sort it out to begin with.

    Anyways, it's sorted now.

    Ah, I see what you were saying now, you meant that youmay not have performed the necessary mod action to grant me access not that I had never been granted permission in the access request thread (which I had been).

    So when you had said 'granted' to my request I assumed that the necessary mouse-clicking actions had been taken and that there was somehow a time limit to access if I hadn't posted. I assummed I had access when I actually didn't. It's true what they say, if you assume something you make an "ass" of "u" and "me"...

    All that confusion :) I do accept that mistakes are made, I've made them myself on other fora I mod...haven't had a chance to make a mistake here because the bowling forum isn't very contencious :D
    psi wrote:
    Either you weren't actually granted access or you're mistaken about applying.

    If you had been granted access you would be logged in the access list. You aren't so you never had access.

    On another note, the soccer forum is huge and highly active and difficult to mod so I'm not surprised that some mistakes are made. AH is similar but has lots more mods, any merit to having more soccer mods or would that confuse issues even more?


  • #44
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    nipplenuts wrote:
    I'll give it a go! :D Break the forum into three, Liverpool fans, Man Utd fans, and soccer fans. Let the two "red" fora be by invite only and the Soccer forum be open access with the restriction that posters mentioning the teams of the other two fora get a ban. ;)


    Truly brilliant! Get this system going for the FA Cup Final. ;)


  • #45
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    r3nu4l wrote:
    All that confusion :) I do accept that mistakes are made, I've made them myself on other fora I mod...haven't had a chance to make a mistake here because the bowling forum isn't very contencious :D

    yeah, usually I do them in bulk. I may just have closed the window by mistake or I may have not hit submit.

    I actually remember your application - the "I read everything I could find" bit :)

    The other thing that's happend to me is that I have lost wireless or Regi said oops during my access granting.

    In any case, I missed it, so sorry about that.

    On another note, the soccer forum is huge and highly active and difficult to mod so I'm not surprised that some mistakes are made. AH is similar but has lots more mods, any merit to having more soccer mods or would that confuse issues even more?
    I'm not sure, we have three mods active. I'm just in the door myself so I hadn't thought about it.


  • #46
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    nipplenuts wrote:
    I'll give it a go! :D Break the forum into three, Liverpool fans, Man Utd fans, and soccer fans. Let the two "red" fora be by invite only and the Soccer forum be open access with the restriction that posters mentioning the teams of the other two fora get a ban. ;)

    That was considered before.

    Except then you'll need a Sunderland forum and then a Celtic one and then a "why do we have to support Celtic just cos we're Irish forum and then a wycombe wanderers forum. I'll be requesting a Nottingham Forest forum myself......

    I dunno. I don't speak for the other mods here, I'd think team fora would be an interesting idea at least, I'm not sure if I'd wanna mod em - I'd say they'd be troll city.


  • #47
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,369 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    At present there are extensive threads for a number of different teams, and personally I think that works fine for most discussion. If there's something warranting a new thread for one of these teams, a manager being fired for example, it gets opened and there's no big deal about it. There's nothing to stop threads being opened for every club in Ireland and Britain, if there was a demand for each, but I don't know if there'd be enough activity to justify a whole forum per team.


  • #48
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    tallaght01 wrote:
    I still stand by my original point. I still think that we should be allowed discuss soccer on boards without having to navigate through an unneccesarily unfriendly charter, cut and paste some nonsense and promise we won't be bold boys. It's like a combination of being back at school and being a known criminal!

    As the mod who brought the original system in place I don't agree. In fact I think they have gotten too soft and the original access request system was better.

    The Soccer Forum when it was originally setup was one of the best places to discuss football that I visited on the net, there was rivalry, friendly banter but also intelligent discussion about the beautiful game. Unfortunately it didn't stay that way with influx of a small group of posters whose discussion skills were "lacking". Strong moderation was in place, people were banned but the real problem we had were with the compulsives who just had to re register their accounts to get the last say or just to be disruptive on purpose.

    Now we had to ask ourselves what kind of forum did we want, did we want a free for all like football365's at the time which basically was a forum where everyone shouted "My cock is bigger than yours" or did we want somewhere where people could have semi-intelligent discussions about football. We decided on the latter and introduced an access process to stop reregistereds getting back on to cause trouble. A number of users were permanently banned as well, although a couple have gotten back in based on assurances that they won't go back to their old ways.
    I think it just needs proper moderation.

    It did, it had the most severe of all the forums, but you cannot keep an eye on it all the time. Why should we clean up after some immature little child all the time. If you really want to post there then you can fill in a simple access request post.
    I think r3nu4l should moderate it. He's the most sensible and reasonable mod that I've had contact with on boards. Can't be that different to the bowling forum, can it? :P

    I have modded Soccer and currently mod Politics and am a Category moderator for the whole Society section. Soccer was and still is the most challenging forum to mod. Bowling wouldn't even touch Soccer as a comparison.


  • #49
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Gandalf,

    The point I have made again and again is that none of the hoops that a member has to jump through are likely to deter somebody who is hell bent on causing trouble. In fact, presumably those with a more benign nature would be less likely to go through the process. If you're willing to re-register a second account in order to troll, then presumably you're willing to do some cut and pasting.

    My issue is:

    1) The charter is treating us like dickheads from the out, which puts me off straight away. The tone is unfriendly and almost accusatory in nature.

    2) Skimming the charter for 2 words in italics wouldn't make me read the charter. If I was a troublemaker, I wouldn't care what the charter said anyway. I can guess that the examples of hassle being given above (threats of violence etc) are not condoned in the charter. I would imagine the perpetrators were also aware of that fact, but they just didn't care.

    3) Sending the disclaimer or whatever seems to be unneccessary, as if somebody wants to cause trouble, the fact that they've sent a disclaimer won't stop them.

    4) There's lots of soccer forums out there that are properly moderated and don't need all the hassle when signing up. I'm a regular contributor on sunderland sites and wolves sites, and it all works pretty well.

    I suggested r3nu4l becomes a mod as an off the cuff remark. I don't know if he would have any interest. I was just making the point that he strikes me as the best mod on boards. I've never been to his bowling thread, but he's rational, sensible and always keeps his calm when the rest of us are getting wound up on the feedback forum (and also on the biology/medicine forum which, believe it or not, has it's fair share of fractiousness :P ). I don't know what a community mod is, but I reckon most of them could learn something from r3nu4l.

    They're my points. It doesn't really matter now, though, I guess. When Sunderland are in the champions league after our rightful return to the premiership, I'll just stick to discussing it on www.safc.com :D


  • #50
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    tallaght01 wrote:
    Gandalf,

    The point I have made again and again is that none of the hoops that a member has to jump through are likely to deter somebody who is hell bent on causing trouble. In fact, presumably those with a more benign nature would be less likely to go through the process. If you're willing to re-register a second account in order to troll, then presumably you're willing to do some cut and pasting.

    As I said I am against the relaxation which that is. Previously you had to have 2 existing members vouch for you. You were bold within a month, you got perm banned, they got banned. That meant people had to think twice about who they vouched for. That coupled with the fact you had to be a member of boards for over a month before posting
    My issue is:

    1) The charter is treating us like dickheads from the out, which puts me off straight away. The tone is unfriendly and almost accusatory in nature.

    Ah bless you, I didn't realise Sunderland supporters were so delicate ;)
    2) Skimming the charter for 2 words in italics wouldn't make me read the charter. If I was a troublemaker, I wouldn't care what the charter said anyway. I can guess that the examples of hassle being given above (threats of violence etc) are not condoned in the charter. I would imagine the perpetrators were also aware of that fact, but they just didn't care.

    Agree on this, as I said above didn't realise they had relaxed the access methods. I think we should go back to the old way myself[/Quote]
    3) Sending the disclaimer or whatever seems to be unneccessary, as if somebody wants to cause trouble, the fact that they've sent a disclaimer won't stop them.

    It does stop them saying they didn't know they were doing wrong though. Saves on alot of threads in this forum claiming the evil Soccer mod banned me cause he is a Forest Support thread.
    4) There's lots of soccer forums out there that are properly moderated and don't need all the hassle when signing up. I'm a regular contributor on sunderland sites and wolves sites, and it all works pretty well.

    Single team sites really aren't comparable to the soccer forum on boards, as I said around the time these measures were originally put in place Soccer365 would have had a generalised forum which was a pile of ****e. There are a lot of dynamics and rivalries on Boards. Next year we will see the return of Newcastle vs Sunderland which I welcome.
    I suggested r3nu4l becomes a mod as an off the cuff remark. I don't know if he would have any interest. I was just making the point that he strikes me as the best mod on boards. I've never been to his bowling thread, but he's rational, sensible and always keeps his calm when the rest of us are getting wound up on the feedback forum (and also on the biology/medicine forum which, believe it or not, has it's fair share of fractiousness :P ). I don't know what a community mod is, but I reckon most of them could learn something from r3nu4l.

    TBH I haven't noticed r3nu4l but thats a good thing, I normally watch out for troublemakers.

    At the end of the day (couldn't be a soccer thread without the phrases) its about you pulling your socks up and getting onside otherwise we will be showing you a red card and you won't be playing with our ball.

    (ok I'll get me coat now :D)
    They're my points. It doesn't really matter now, though, I guess. When Sunderland are in the champions league after our rightful return to the premiership, I'll just stick to discussing it on www.safc.com :D

    Now why would I want to do that I much prefer http://www.irishgunners.com/ ;)


  • #51
    Thanx 4 The Fish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    I too was involved as a mod when all of the crap kicked off. Gandalf and Devore worked out a very good system of sponsorships and it worked very well. What happened though was that every man and his dog, (alot like the OP) complained that as a system we were too restrictive, Talla, Kdjacl and I (against Devores advice, who predicted that the easing of the restrictions in place would bring back in a geansaí load of muppets again) got rid of the sponsorship, introduced a three strikes system and made people jump through a couple of different hoops (2 months fifty posts read the charter, type of stuff) and it seems to be going reasonably alright. Bannings are down, muppetry is down and most of the complaints we get are from people who cannot get access straight away.

    I had a whole lot more to this post but really I don't want to stir anything up, enough has gone on in this thread alone.


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