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Antibiotics: A Laissez-Faire Approach to their Prescription

  • 14-06-2007 03:37PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭


    I developed a very severe UTI approximately a month ago. I was prescribed Augmentin tid for it. After about 4 days I was feeling a bit better but still not nearly 100%. By the end of the course (7 days), I felt ok, but knew that the infection wasn't completely gone as I was still uncomfortable

    This went on for about a month until last night when I knew I was getting full-blown cystitis again. So this morning I went to a doctor that I don't normally go to (my dr is closed for the summer - I'm a student). I told her that I'd been put on Augmentin and that I thought it didnt work and I expressed how worried I was about the fact that I may be resistant to it. She reassured me etc. (fobbed me off) and said she would prescribe me something different and would send my urine to a lab to get tested. So she prescribed me Pinaclav.

    Now I know that looking up things on the internet can be dangerous but I thought I'd do a search to find out what pennicillin this was and as far as I could make out it was EXACTLY the same as Augmentin. Does anyone know if this is true?

    I was so annoyed, after having told her that I didn't want to be on Augmentin again. So I rang her and she told me that it wasn't the same as Augmentin that Pinaclav is Co-Amoxyclav which is different. She got very defensive and told me that if I wanted to self-treat my infection that was perfectly fine with her.

    After about ten minutes of me trying to find out why she didn't put me on the first line antibiotic for a UTI (trimethrprim or something) the phonecall eventually ended.

    Has anyone else had an experience like this???

    What really annoyed me was that she either 1. bare-faced lied to me about what she's prescribed me or else
    2. she didn't know there was no difference between the two and
    3. that the first line antibiotic is in fact trimethoprim or fluroquinolones.

    I just think doctors use Amoxicillin for everything and I find it lazy

    PLUS! it's one of the most expensive - the course cost me €22!


    views please!!!


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    What I would regard as a laissez-faire approach would be a doctor who prescribed according to what her patient was reading on the internet.:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭dh2007


    she told me a bare faced lie!!! she said she wasn't putting me back on Augmentin and did exactly that!

    What annoys me is that she treated me like I was stupid by trying to fob me off by putting me on the same drug but exactly the same name. She may well have had a genuine reason for doing so but what she should have done was explained to me her reason for putting me on the same drug again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    dh2007 wrote:

    I just think doctors use Amoxicillin for everything and I find it lazy




    I wouldn't comment on the bulk of your story withouth knowing the full details. However, I think the statement above above is interesting. While it is, of course, factually wrong, it's a belief held by a lot of people.
    Back home in Tallaght, everyone knows what amoxicillin is. People who can't spell it, or say it, know what it is. You would struggle to find somebody wos not been on it. Where I live in the UK, most of my non medical friends don't know what it is.
    In Tallaght, friends and family tell me it's because rubbish lazy docs prescibe amoxicillin because they "don't know about other antibiotics" or "they have shares in the company". Whereas, by and large, you don't hear these stories in the UK. Of course, UK docs might be better than their Irish counterparts, or may be more reckless with their prescribing of the more exotic antibiotics. But I have a different theory. I think it's all about payment for medical services. People feel ripped off when they go to their GP or hospital if they don't get an antibiotic for an infection. It's almost an in insult when I tell parents that I won't be giving them an antibiotic for their kid, as it's most likely a viral infection. Everyone is pleased when you give them an antibiotic though. It's like you're taking them seriously.
    So when I go to my GP in Glasgow with the lurgy, he usually says "you have a virus it will go away in 4-5 days,see ya". He won't give me an antibiotic. He's the doc, and it's his choice. I know that none of the following will secure me an antibiotic:

    1) But it's gone to my chest, doctor

    2) But I get an antibiotic at this time every year, doctor

    3) It's too bad to be just a virus, doctor.

    BUT, I go to my doc in Dublin if I'm home, and I ALWAYS get an antibiotic. So does everyone who visits him. That's because we pay him 50 euro. He's a really good doctor, but you can't take the 50 euro and then not give the antibiotic. He knows that most antibiotics he gives out for sore throats and sore ears are as useless as prescribing starbursts. But have you ever heard anyone who has come back from an Irish GP surgery that's been denied an antibiotic? The moral outrage is palpable in the air for weeks. Last person I knew that it happened too never went back to that GP (even though it was patently obvious that they had a viral infection).
    So, in the circumstances where GPs feel they have to give an antibiotic to every member of the public, amoxicillin (or poxy-cillin as it'a called in the trade coz it's so crap) is the drug of choice. It supposedly has a broad spectrum of activity, but lots of stuff is already resistant to it, so the GP's don't feel too bad about breeding resistant strains.
    There are a lot of faults with the NHS, but medical autonomy has been preserved, which is, I believe, one of the great failings of any fee for service primary care setup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭wheresthebeef


    Tallaght01, i think you've hit the nail on the head. My GP does exactly what your describing. Clavamel 375mg TDS for one week, standard formula for everything. I prefer using the free medical service we have here in TCD because the doctors will actually tell you whats wrong with you and only prescribe whats neccessary or not prescribe at all if it is not neccessary. Maybe its because the service is free (",) they don't feel obliged to give you something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    tallaght01 wrote:
    I think it's all about payment for medical services. People feel ripped off when they go to their GP or hospital if they don't get an antibiotic for an infection. It's almost an in insult when I tell parents that I won't be giving them an antibiotic for their kid, as it's most likely a viral infection. Everyone is pleased when you give them an antibiotic though. It's like you're taking them seriously.
    Nail on head there. I think we might be heading towards the stage where amoxycillin is doled out as a placebo type treatment.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    http://www.tiscali.co.uk/lifestyle/healthfitness/health_advice/netdoctor/000343.html

    "QUOTE"

    Antibiotic therapy
    This is the mainstay of treatment. Trimethoprim is currently the first choice for lower UTI in the UK, because it is cost-effective, well tolerated and works in 80 per cent of infections. Cephalosporins, nitrofurantoin, and norfloxacin are reserved as second line drugs in patients with lower UTI, but are first choices in patients with signs of upper UTI or kidney infection.

    Antibiotics such as amoxycillin now have resistance levels of 50 per cent in the community, because of widespread use over many years. Based on such experiences, many specialists are concerned about the possible overuse of the more powerful antibiotics as first line therapy in the general community.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭dh2007


    Littlebug,

    that is exactly what I was trying to say to my doctor!!! She obviously doesn't read current medical literature. She was so thrown that I had actually looked into it that she got all defensive.

    well we'll see on Monday what the cultures say anyway.

    Love the name by the way! I bet you're a microbiologist or something


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    LOL I'm not a microbiologist, not even close!

    To be honest I wouldn't consider information on an internet lifestyle website to be current medical literature. I would assume the medics would have greater access to up to date literature than you or I would find on the internet.
    I think there are two issues here. First the prescribing, or over-prescribing of anti-biotics in the first place as discussed above and secondly futher prescription when the infection persists. I wonder what the general practice guidelines in this instance i.e move up the scale to a stronger anti-b or a longer term prescription on a similar drug?

    Aside from that I can see why someone with many years training and practice would get annoyed and defensive at being questioned by a patient who'd looked something up on the internet. A gentler approach may have yielded a greater explanation of the prescribing rationale and made for a more co-operative doctor- patient relationship in the future.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭dh2007


    Indeed.

    A friend of mine is from Co. Clare and for years she kept getting severe throat infections. Each time she got an infection she went to her local GP who prescribed her antibiotics. Because she kept getting repeat attacks of the infection he eventually sent her to an Ear Nose and Throat specialist in the Blackrock Clinic.

    Mr. D. changed the antibiotic that she'd been on and said to her that if she gets a repeat dose that he'd take them out. Well she never got a repeat dose and still has her tonsils!!!!

    The bug had obviously become resistant to whatever antibiotic she'd been on. Kinda scary. She'd been suffering on and off for months and no doubt paid an awful lot of money to that doctor


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭dh2007


    littlebug wrote:

    Aside from that I can see why someone with many years training and practice would get annoyed and defensive at being questioned by a patient who'd looked something up on the internet.


    when I rang her I was in no way argumentative or confrontational. I just genuinely wanted to know why she hadn't put me on the first line drug and secondly why she put me on the same thing again when I expressly asked her not to do that. Like I said, if she had a reason to put me on the same one again (which she more than likely did) she should have told me so when I was with her.

    Also, seeing that I paid her €55 for the visit and a further €22 for the antibiotic I think I have every right to a few minutes more of her time to query her treatment of my infection.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    Sorry dh I probably came across a bit harsh there...I didn't intend to be. It's just that she may have had a good rationale for prescribing what she did without it being a case of her being ignorant/ fobbing you off or whatever! I don't know enough about the topic to comment in that respect.

    When I talk about a doctor-patient relationship I believe that's exactly what it should be, a relationship, a partnership with mutual respect and trust, particularly when it comes to GPs where you could be talking about a lifelong/ family wide relationship with them... but that's a whole other thread!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭DrIndy


    Not too sure where this conversation is going. GP's are doctors and are right to prescribe what they believe is appropriate. UTI's are painful but are not severe until they spread to the kidneys and make you very sick indeed. Symptoms are relative.

    Regarding the pros and cons of antibiotic choice for community based UTI's is not ideal for this forum as it constitutes possible advice. Augmentin is in general very safe, well tolerated and pretty effective drug, hence it is used so often, it is not the cheap version. Saving the more effective drugs for severe infection ensures that when you do indeed have a severe infection, then there is a second line agent available to use.


This discussion has been closed.
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