Donkey play - or standard? KsJs

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 09:04AM #1

I played this hand last night and its been on my mind ever since.

Villian is Halfbaked, effective stacks of c.500. 1/2pl in the acquarium.

I make it 10 to go from MP/LP with KsJs, 4 of us see the flop inc Peter from the SB.

Flop Jd 4s 3s

Peter leads for 25 (or similar), I make it 100, Peter pushes and I insta call.

Now as soon as he pushed i call and im thinking omfg what am i at?

Is this a standard call or not? Part of me thinks the hand plays itself on the flop and part of me thinks that Peter only pushes there with a set against me in that spot and he wouldnt be overly concerned about losing me as a customer with his agressive actions as Im a station.

Thoughts please?

Ste05 · 17-08-2007 09:09AM

I would have thought Halfbaked will have a set here alot if not always, but you're never dead, so gamble gamble I suppose. Run that mofo twice...

I don't know if I would have raised his donk bet, I assume it was folded around to you.

Moneymaker · 17-08-2007 09:19AM

I'd have called and taken another card and see what he does on the turn. If you raise and he pushes, then you've got to throw it away. Unless you're in a gambling mood of course. But i'd have flat called. Despite the flush draw, you've got a vunerable one pair, and you don't want to play your whole stack with one pair, even with the flush draw when you're playing pretty deep.

Van Dice · 17-08-2007 09:22AM

Don't like getting 250 BBs in on the flop there

bottom feeder · 17-08-2007 09:23AM

Noel even tho you have a monster here i think maybe you should have just called the flop bet and see if you could improve your hand,
however now you've raised and he's pushed i'd have to think about it with another 400 behind, i would probably fold TBH

ehhhhh oh yeah i love flushdraws so i'd get them in just like Phil Helmuth 'NOT'

ligger · 17-08-2007 09:33AM

I think the only hand you can be beating is the nut flush draw and I don't see Peter shipping it in with this here. I would have called the flop bet and barring hitting the flush on the turn I would be done with this hand if Peter pushed on the turn,and wait for a better spot.

valor · 17-08-2007 10:03AM

just flat call on the flop

coillcam · 17-08-2007 10:46AM

I usually wouldda jammed here a fair bit live vs. an unknown but since we know otherwise a little bit of solemn contemplation is required.

I ran through pokerstove a very narrow range for halfbaked. I assume he will reraise PF with JJ,QQ and possibly AJ(Although AJ post flop isn't gonna get so shovey IMO),

Hero : KsJs Equity:35.5%
Halfbaked:44,33,5s6s Equity:64.5%

If you include all nut FD hands and JJ,QQ (lets not debate about post flop potential play here)to the range it changes accordingly.

Hero : KsJs Equity:47%
halfbaked: QQ,JJ,44,33,6s5s,As2s-AsKs Equity:53%

If you take away all NFD hands the equity changes considerably.

Hero: KsJs Equity: 41%
Halfbaked: QQ,JJ,44,33,5s6s Equity: 59%

No real help here but I suppose halfbaked's range is dependent on how you are perceived by him to play overpairs etc. ie. make a decent fold, stack off etc.

Looks like we are behind here too often or at best (unlikely) coinflipping.

Take a cheapish turn card and shove when As appears. (Maybe you even get a free river ?)

El Stuntman · 17-08-2007 11:42AM

I take it the power of the Kojak prevailed in the end and you flushed up on the river?

lucksack

mickste · 17-08-2007 11:59AM

I'm guessing halfbaked has a set of 4's. That is exactly how he would play them once you raise.

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 12:00PM

IMO peter raises preflop with JJ and QQ, he peels off a flop with AJ, 33, 44 etc. He certainly doesnt get that jiggy post flop with just AJ - i should know this but i fail to assimilate this info at the time.

bops · 17-08-2007 12:01PM

sweet flop!

I think people are influenced by peters push - you gotta raise the hand up otf - now call and hope he has AA rather than the obv set

i love kjs

cardshark202 · 17-08-2007 12:12PM

valor wrote:

just flat call on the flop

.

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 12:18PM

So i call on the flop and Peter bets the maximum on the turn do i just fold?

cardshark202 · 17-08-2007 12:23PM

BigCityBanker wrote:

So i call on the flop and Peter bets the maximum on the turn do i just fold?

If he always has a set when he fires the turn then yes easy fold. Depends on what you think his range is.

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 12:27PM

^ yeah i suppose if i called the flop by the time he would have fired the turn i would have begun to convince myself that i was toast.

Anyway, Peter had 5s6s for the oesfd so he was pretty much up against the one hand that he didnt want to be against.

i need to be less hasty in these spots cos im against a set here almost all of the time agasint him.

kaizersoze1980 · 17-08-2007 12:28PM

Donkey play...no doubt about it

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 12:32PM

kaizersoze1980 wrote:

Donkey play...no doubt about it

Gimp - f'off back to your Bebo page....

CaptainNemo · 17-08-2007 01:16PM

Pair + flush draw is one of my trouble hands. I cringe inwardly when I flop it because if and when all the money has gone in with this hand, 5 times out of 6 I've discovered that I'm up against a set or 2 pair and essentially have donked all my chips in with a naked flush draw.

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 01:33PM

I played a similar hand last night also.

Chief raised in LP to 10 and i call from the SB with As4s

Flop comes 10s 9s 4c, I check, UTG checks, Chief goes all in for 35 or so, LP makes it 100, i make it 275 with another 140 behind, UTG goes all in for 120, LP folds.

UTG Jd8c, Chief QcQd, I dunno what LP folded but im pretty sure he had the bare 10 and was trying to isolate the Chief.

I hit one of my 14 outs on the turn anyway

Ste05 · 17-08-2007 02:14PM

Who won the OP hand anyway. I presume HB missed his 10 outs.

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 02:17PM

Ste05 wrote:

Who won the OP hand anyway. I presume HB missed his 10 outs.

HB only had 8 outs instead of the anticipated 15. I won it anyway. Its a bit sick for Peter cos he is 0 for 5 in similar spots over the last few months.

sikes · 17-08-2007 02:18PM

he has 8 outs.

BigCityBanker · 17-08-2007 02:20PM

sikes wrote:

he has 8 outs.

he has 8 outs? his spade outs are live.

edit. hmmmmmm sikes got it edited within a minute methinks? or else me goin blind? meh. Sikes confirm my sanity please?

sikes · 17-08-2007 02:24PM

Maybe

aidankk · 17-08-2007 02:37PM

i played a very similiar hard to this in a tourney wedensday night.. Big Slick Tramore 50 + 25 topup.

I wonder does the toughts on this type of play change in this type of one rebuy or topup tourney.

! raise pref AJh to 800, blinds 1-200 4 callers.

Flop 2 hearts something like 10 4 3 with 4-3 hearts.. Tight looking guy bets out 1200 2 callers aroung to me i look down as i didnt know the suit.. and called (while telling the guy yes they were hearts):rolleyes: one more mad player calls..

Anyway black jack on the turn, first guy move in, next 2 fold, he has me covered, its about 4k ive left, there seems to be about 13k in the pot, i know he has a set(well im hoping he has an overpair or two pair) but i call anyway:eek: .. Of course i dont hit, but is there anything wrong with the call, considering the rebuy is only 25 for the same amount of chips...

I usually like to give off a bit of a mad bluffer image early in a tourney, and with this and another mad bluff i had to show down, i got paid off a couple of sets myself later on in the tourney..

The question is it worth the call at slightly:o bad odds to try for a lot of chips, when i i loose anyway i can rebuy for another 8k( and fancy my chances of building this), but i missout on the 10k topup....

PS who said 94os and q2os wernt the muts nuts 3 handed in the same tourney:cool:

Ste05 · 17-08-2007 02:44PM

Dammit you bstds, I counted the 2 str8 flush outs twice... :mad:

bottom feeder · 17-08-2007 07:25PM

Peter was unlucky in this hand, because of his bet i think he should have taken it down.

The big mistake in this hand for BCB [imo] was the insta call on the flop / as you pointed out yourself Noel maybe if you put some serious taught into this flop and considered the hands you could be up against - also what value you were getting - not to mention your opponent 'Pete' i think the result would have been a fold.

I’ve done this so many times in cash games, making insta calls with-out even contemplating what my opponent could be holding and effectively cost me a lot of yo yo's, which in turn would result in me tilting like a mutha fcuka because of my idiotic play, this is/was the biggest flaw in my cash game play and am currently working on same.
Anyway nice pot to take down and UL Pete.

Goodluck2me · 18-08-2007 05:29PM

bottom feeder wrote:

Peter was unlucky in this hand, because of his bet i think he should have taken it down.

The big mistake in this hand for BCB [imo] was the insta call on the flop / as you pointed out yourself Noel maybe if you put some serious taught into this flop and considered the hands you could be up against - also what value you were getting - not to mention your opponent 'Pete' i think the result would have been a fold.

I’ve done this so many times in cash games, making insta calls with-out even contemplating what my opponent could be holding and effectively cost me a lot of yo yo's, which in turn would result in me tilting like a mutha fcuka because of my idiotic play, this is/was the biggest flaw in my cash game play and am currently working on same.
Anyway nice pot to take down and UL Pete.

dont think this is entirely true Wes, as peter showed he doesnt only do it with a set or 2pair hands, as if he did then people (thinking players) would never call his raises. I dont think the hand in question was all that bad he is ahead of Over pairs and on such a draw heavy board he had plenty equity in the pot. Peter is not as tight as he wou;ld let you imagine!

Samba · 18-08-2007 05:51PM

Over pairs are not in Peters range in this spot.

bottom feeder · 18-08-2007 06:58PM

goodluck2me wrote:

dont think this is entirely true Wes, as peter showed he doesnt only do it with a set or 2pair hands, as if he did then people (thinking players) would never call his raises. I dont think the hand in question was all that bad he is ahead of Over pairs and on such a draw heavy board he had plenty equity in the pot. Peter is not as tight as he wou;ld let you imagine!

Agreed Joe, i know Pete isnt that tight of a player and his range can be quite wide but i have played Pete on many occasions and i think he'd play a set / 2pair the same way tbh. i suppose i was pointing out that BCB maybe should have put a little more taught into the hand and considered his options, if i was in the hand i'd find it hard to fold but because there wasnt that much in the pot i'd painfully find a fold.

Donkey play - or standard? KsJs

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