In honour of Mark & Brian, Bray Firefighters RIP

Weren't those lads only part time firemen. That was what I thought the problem was. They didn't have enoough training, equipment or backup. But then again, I get my information from snippets of hourly news shows on the radio.

humanji wrote:

Weren't those lads only part time firemen. That was what I thought the problem was. They didn't have enoough training, equipment or backup. But then again, I get my information from snippets of hourly news shows on the radio.

I'm not having a go Humanji but......AARRGGGHHHH!!:mad:

'ONLY' part time firemen!

This seems to be a common mis-conception which with all the coverage in the media after last weeks terrible event, I would have thought was cleared up for most people.

'Retained' Firefighters get the exact same training as full time FireFighters. In most cases they actually have 'more' experience at incidents then the full-timers. A full timer works a 39 hour week. A retained firefighter is on call for over 80 hours a week. His pager goes off at any time of the day and at any day of the week and he has to drop what he is doing an go. On average the Bray retained service are called out 250-300 times a year. Thats from every other day to nearly every day.

The issue isn't about experience and it isn't about equipment, its about response times. With a retained service response times are increased because the retained firefighters have to leave their jobs/beds etc and dash up to the station, change out of their civvies into their firefighting gear and only then can the hop into the fire engine and respond to the call. Oh and guess what. Until they are 'on duty' and in a fire engine, they are not exempt from speeding tickets/fines/penalty points. If they are stopped by an actual guard all they have to do is flash the badge but they are not immune from speeding cameras in their own private cars as they rush to the station.

Full-timers on the other hand are already wearing most of their gear and already sitting in the station. All the have to do is throw on the rest of their gear and hop straight into the fire engine.

There has been an ongoing campaign in Bray for a ful time service ever since a fire in an estate in Bray cost the lives of a mother and child. This estate is across the bloody road from the fire station. Brian Murray, one of the deceased had been campaigning himself after that incident. He was one of the first retained firefighters to get to the station that night. He had to sit in the engine watching the smoke rising from the estate across the road and had to wait till the rest for the retained crew arrived before the engine could leave and attend the scene. It might have been only 5 minutes extra but those 5 minute were vital.

In the incident last week, it turns out a full time crew ready in the station could have responded about 15 minutes quicker. We've all seen the ads from the fire safety authority warning us about how fast fire can spread and who vital it is to have an early warning. ie smoke alarms etc.

A fire crew being on scene 15 minutes earlier on the 26th of September could have been the difference between the lads just having to put out a small fire around the door area where the welders sparks ignited some rubbish (Likeliest probable cause atm).... and our retained crew arriving 15 minutes later and facing a raging inferno.

This is what is so maddening about Bertie Aherns comments about a fulltime crew not making a difference. People seem to think it was Bertie defending the skill, experience and training of the retained firefighters. Like I said Experience, training, equipment weren't the isssue. Time was.

Anyway. I knew Mark ('Shockers') personally. I'll be signing the online petition as a mark of support if nothing else. Never did sign one of the 'real' petitions before but I'll be on the lookout for the next one.

Maybe the organisers should get a few people outside the supermarkets collecting signatures.

My mistake. This whole problem would probably get more attention if the general media would tell the public this!

My mistake. This whole problem would probably get more attention if the general media would tell the public this!

Like I said, I wasn't having a go at you personally Humanjii mate. Its just frustration at the general lack of awareness re: part-time/retained firefighters in the general public. I did read quite a bit of clarification in the media as to the training, skill, experience of the retained firefighters but most of this info would be spread throughout a 2 or 3 page spread rather than collated into easy to read bullets points in a sidebar on the page.

I also showed my frustration in the post because it kind of reminded me that I had just heard from an Aunt how an Uncle of mine from Dublin was mouthing off and sneering at what he described as 'wannabe part timers playing 'Fireman' getting themselves into fatal trouble. (I know you weren't sneering btw). He shut up when my aunt told him one of the deceased was my brothers friend and was well known to my family. I only wish I had been there to tell him to shut up before he made a fool of himself and to educate him. Again I'm not comparing what you said to what he said, it just slightly reminded me and brought my frustration out in the post.

Ive always wondered, but do a certain amt of the firemen have to agree to be sober on any given night? i.e. if a fire station has 30 volunteers, realistically on a Saturday 30 might be drinking, is there an agreed rota of who goes out what night?

I'm not a fireman myself and picked up most of my information re the issue from Mark himself or the media since but as far as I know, when the lads are on call, which is about 80 hours a week, they do not drink. Doesn't mean they don't go out and socialise but they don't drink and have the bleeper on their belt. Imagine the sacrefice that is. When on call you are tied to the town for all intends and purposes and can be called away at a moments notice.

Yes, its spam. But jesus h christ put the rule book down for one minute would you. I clicked on this thinking "if Karoma isnt the first mod to respond its all good"

Totally agree. Its not as if this was someone spamming cheap nike runners from china. Just someone unaware of forum ettiqete. Surely a warning/some friendly advice would have sufficed.

I lived in the oldcourt estate for 20 years and watched the flames coming from Kitty Cassidys house from accross the estate on that Stephans Day morning. No one knew how tragic that event would turn outto be. All but 2 members of that family were wiped. Years later I watched from directly across the road as the Cahills house was gutted. The weird thing was No one thought there was anyone in that house at the time. Once again the estate was thrown into a state of shock. How could two tragedies happen so close together? Was the lesson not learned the first time around?

The council sent electricians around to all the houses in the estate to check wiring. People were warned to buy fire alarms. But why was no one listening when the door of the fire station was getting banged on on stephans day morning?

Oldcourt and Bray are not the only places in Ireland to have suffered such tragedies. How can a government justify spending 3 million Euro on a spike and not be too concerned about organinsing a full time fire service for the parts of the country that haven't got one? Why was the fire station on the boghall road even built if there was never going to be anyone working in it?

The petition won't work. It doesn't matter how many people sign it because the people in charge have already seen several lives lost. Whats another 2 to them?

Tha Gopher wrote:

Yes, its spam. But jesus h christ put the rule book down for one minute would you. I clicked on this thinking "if Karoma isnt the first mod to respond its all good"

Neeh-uuuh.

I left the thread open. I just don't want the spammer spamming the same spam again and again (Which looks plausible - she event went to the blogs). Even then, I had overlooked it until the complaints started. If you have a problem with something, take it to Feedback or PM me. End of discussion.