Airsoft and Real Steel

Leupold · 16-11-2007 1:55pm #1

I have been shooting real steel Rifles, pistols and shotguns for 30 years. I have also been playing paintball since it started in Ireland. When I first heard of Airsoft, I imagined plastic toys and no crossover interest with real steel. Then I went to the Salute show and saw and handled the latest Airsoft guns and my views changed . It strikes me that there are common interests between the two communities at both practical and political levels. The Airsoft community's first brush with the media and public opinion was an eye opener for many of you but is really only a repeat of what has happened to the firearms community from time to time in Ireland and the UK so there is much scope for common ground at this level. This latter topic justifies a thread on it's own as the main purpose of this thread is to get your views on crossover of skills on the practical level. I believe that the real steel shooters can help the Airsoft shooters by transferring skill and experience in two main areas, viz., safety and marksmanship.
When a new shooter joins a firearms club, basic safety skills in handling and using firearms are drummed into him or her before they get their own gun. They are also coached in how to handle and fire the gun and how to improve their levels of accuracy. I suspect that many airsoft shooters buy a gun and shoot in the back garden before venturing out to HRTA or similar sites. They will then encounter proper safety requirements for the first time. I would like your views on how many airsoft shooters would attend a safety, handling and marksmanship course if one was run for you. I would also like to know how many of you would be interested in visiting a shooting club to try out the real thing under proper supervision and advice.If there is sufficient interest, the firearms club I am in would work with the Irish Airsoft Association to facilitate this. Please take the poll and also post your views on this thread

zero19 · 16-11-2007 1:58pm

I like the idea of some coaching and trying out RS, sounds like a good idea to me.

thehomeofDob · 16-11-2007 2:06pm

The idea is good, but it would have to be done carefully. I think one of the main things airsofters want is to distance themselves somewhat from real steel guns. In the public eye, airsoft is to be view as a sport, and the tools used as toys/sporting equipment. I understand to some level that pratical shooting, etc. is view in the same way (sport - sporting equipment). ... phonecall just came in and I've lost my train of thought.

Anyway, I voted yes to both. It's a good thing to treat such a close replica with the same consideration as a real steel. The replicas might not be lethal, but the habit of being safe would carry over if ever someone was to use a real steel. In the pubic eye, strict safety procedures can only be viewed as a good thing.

Spitfire666 · 16-11-2007 2:17pm

i'd be up for it. i would like to learn about real firearm safety. if nothing else its good to be able to be safe.

I've also been meaning to go shooting as i have had a number of invites at this stage

kdouglas · 16-11-2007 2:19pm

Leupold: I appreciate your interest crosses both real steel and airsoft, however the forum charter explicitly bans the discussion of real steel firearms

The Charter wrote:

* There will be no discussion of firearms. Airsoft devices and some modified paintball markers are based on their real steel counterparts. Some threads may veer this way. However, try and keep it to a minimum. It is in the best interest of our sports to try and distance ourselves from firearms as much as we can.

Edit: hmmm.. on second thought, this thread is kind of a grey area... the charter rule in question was to ban people talking about real steel in the way they would in the shooting forum, however i can see the idea behind this... decisions decisions

OK, im leaving this open for now

Personally I think that in certain respects yes there is an obvious crossover between airsoft and real steel, marksmanship is a whole different ballgame however, airsoft bbs just dont have the same flight characteristics as bullets

I would visit a shooting club and try out a few real steel guns however i feel that this is irrelevant to my playing airsoft

As regards safety, i think that you should apply similar rules to airsoft as you would real steel, i.e. always assume it's loaded, however the obvious major difference is airsoft is meant to be shot at a person, (during a skirmish) however a real gun isn't

conor-mr2 · 16-11-2007 2:28pm

Absolutely would definately love to head out to one.

This is about safety and certainly improving ourselves in our sport.

Sure I was asking Derek up in MIA about it also.

ambro25 · 16-11-2007 2:30pm

Whilst I have no doubt that safety/handling coaching would be beneficial to most, I believe venue operators are already providing such coaching to any new participant.

The intention is laudable and no doubt well-meaning, and I'd be all for cross-support in/whenasmuch as same is warranted, but I feel we airsofters should first & foremost be at pains to distance ourselves from anything and everything 'real steel'.

Sure, we have had a fair share of close brushes with the media recently - which "new thing around the block" hasn't?

What we cannot risk, is association of any sort with anything and everything 'real steel', which I fear would happen the minute such "cross -pollination" takes place, given as close brushes to date have been with sentionalist media untroubled by basic research and facts.

To my mind, there is no immediate cross-over (I am a very long-time RS owner/user, I should precise). So a "No" vote here, in the inexistent "No" vote option

CTU_Agent · 16-11-2007 2:37pm

i would agree it would be beneficial for airsofters to learn a thing or two about Handling and safety when it comes to firearms.

If members of IAA where to have a competency in firearms it would display a professional approach and also show the general public that we are not just a pack of gun toting maniacs.

The idea of a structured 'course' or introduction to handling and safety would sit well with many here I would Imagine...

Spitfire666 · 16-11-2007 2:40pm

i think the fact that we took the safety course even though we dont use real steal... it would dhow that we ARE safety consious and doing more then enough to ensure a safe sport

Hivemind187 · 16-11-2007 2:45pm

An Airsoft safety course is currently being drafted based on the r/s protocols with minor adaptations for Airsoft.

Markspi · 16-11-2007 2:45pm

Spitfire666 wrote: »

i think the fact that we took the safety course even though we dont use real steal... it would dhow that we ARE safety consious and doing more then enough to ensure a safe sport

What he said

I would be interested in the safety aspect for sure.

Masada · 16-11-2007 2:47pm

I agree with ambro, to be involved with real steel clubs and the like is to aknowledge a link between airsoft and actuall firearms and probably share the flack either community recieves from the media.,

o1s1n · 16-11-2007 2:51pm

I have added another poll option for those of you who think there should be no crossovers.

Edit, Im sure there are people who would like to visit a shooting club yet do not want any crossovers between the sports. The poll doesnt really have a full range of choices given the question.

conor-mr2 · 16-11-2007 3:01pm

I dont think we receive that much flack from the media.

Seriously we are in the spotlight at the moment because of the t4bb show.

I dont hear of RS places getting flack from the media either.
In fact Real Steel is tightly regulated.

Granted some may not want to have the cross over to RS but remember these are essentially imitations of the real things. Some even collect them simply because of their resemblance to the real thing.
Im afraid to the general public there will always be a link between the two.

Anyway Im OTing slightly and this thread probably shouldnt dive into a debate on the issue.

Actually Id dearly love a Sniper basics course weekend or similiar!! Now that would be fantastic!!

ScumLord · 16-11-2007 3:02pm

Safety maybe but airsoft just doesn't require anywhere near the levels of safety the real steel does constant reminders in places like HRTA to make sure your gun isn't loaded outside of the play area is enough and from what I saw that's being done. Although for a laugh I'm sure loads would love to do it, shouldn't become required though.

Outside of that firing an airsoft gun and firing the real steel has little in common, I think what interests most is the military tactics like how to enter a room while decreasing your chances of getting shot and stuff like that.

I have an interest in firing real guns but I'll be doing that in Latvia and once I've done it I don't see myself ever needing to or wanting to hold a gun ever again. Shooting at a target would hold little apeal and I wouldn't do hunting.

ambro25 · 16-11-2007 3:03pm

vtec wrote: »

to be involved with real steel clubs and the like is to aknowledge a link between airsoft and actuall firearms

whereby easier argumentative ammunition is made available to airsoft detractors.

It deprives airsofters from the respite that can be had in any debate wherein airsoft is demonised, when pointing out that airsoft has nothing whatsoever in common with RS, save as to the appearance of equipment only (and of course, legal sanctions that are related to this fact - about which no course is required).

Let's be clear:

Mishandling a RS will have fatal consequences and safety coaching and vetting is consequentially paramount in this context.

Mishandling an airsoft device will not, ever (saves as to the 1 in a billion chance).

Anything after that (illegal use/wielding, etc.) is not in contention, but to my mind beyond the purview of this thread.

padmundo · 16-11-2007 3:09pm

I'm with KD on this one. I would definitely be interested in a safety and marksmanship course as it would be beneficial to the sport and create a better sense of safety for all involved. Of course I would also be interested in coming out and firing some real steel as a personal wish however I would think it would be better to keep a clear divide between the two sports in this current climate. Although they contain similarities in some respects, the general public needs to see Airsoft as the fun past time it is and not a small militia in training as I imagine some might see it as right now.

Perhaps some a safety course could be ran at a shooting club but it would be hard to keep a sense of seperation of the two. I appreciate the sentiment.

Masada · 16-11-2007 3:22pm

Of course I would also be interested in coming out and firing some real steel as a personal wish however I would think it would be better to keep a clear divide between the two sports in this current climate.

I wouldnt dissagree with shooting real steel at all as ive done it myself and it great.
I just think its a wiser idea to keep the 2 passtimes seperate to avoid being tarnished with the same brush and also being treated as a firearms community rather than a sport/hobby etc.,

Genghiz Cohen · 16-11-2007 3:25pm

No, not right now, because right now we need to distance ourselves from real steel, if only for the time being.

padmundo · 16-11-2007 3:32pm

vtec wrote: »

I wouldnt dissagree with shooting real steel at all as ive done it myself and it great.
I just think its a wiser idea to keep the 2 passtimes seperate to avoid being tarnished with the same brush and also being treated as a firearms community rather than a sport/hobby etc.,

Well that's what I was saying...

JonAnderton · 16-11-2007 3:38pm

Because of the excellent similarities between the two, I use airsoft for training and running safety and handling drills even to the extent i can practice the same classification drills (Incorporating reloads, safe movement, multi-positional shooting, Rapid shooting, etc) that we have to do regularly. Ithink it's important to know the proper handling techniques and the ones used in real steel discaplines transfer perfectly over into airsoft.

myself and some friends recently had a bit of a range and tactics day and we found that with a few minor adjustments, the handling training and tactics I use at work and my friends had from their previous training, nicely transfered into the airsoft world and made for some extremely fun but realistic training.

We've used it as the basis to form some shooting exercises and drills.

Masada · 16-11-2007 3:40pm

padmundo wrote: »

Well that's what I was saying...

Yeah i know, im agreeing with ya.,;)

Fiach Dubh · 16-11-2007 3:44pm

I think there is a small level of crossover in regards to gas blowback Airsoft pistols since they operate on a level more in line with real pistols in that they have a similar action e.g. operating the slide chambers a BB unlike electric rifles and SMG's. Gas blowback Airsoft rifles operate on the same principle having to be cocked to chamber a BB but they won't be replacing AEG's for a few years yet.

Myself I would be quite interested in attending a real steel safety and shooting course.

Gatling · 16-11-2007 3:45pm

avoiding the politics of the cross over , id be very intrested in a visit to a gun club just never knew who to ask about the subject,
as for a crossover there is a couple of members from both disaplines doing both ,what i mean shoot r/s and Airsoft ,to say there cant be any cross overs is a bit iffy ,gunclubs (correct me if im wrong) are buying aegs/side arms to teach new members ,
as for the media were both cannon fodder for them ,i cant see why the two cant exist in harmony

Masada · 16-11-2007 3:50pm

Gatling wrote: »

avoiding the politics of the cross over , id be very intrested in a visit to a gun club just never knew who to ask about the subject,
as for a crossover there is a couple of members from both disaplines doing both ,what i mean shoot r/s and Airsoft ,to say there cant be any cross overs is a bit iffy ,gunclubs (correct me if im wrong) are buying aegs/side arms to teach new members ,
as for the media were both cannon fodder for them ,i cant see why the two cant exist in harmony

think the point is that there is no problem with it on a individuals level but as far as linking say the IAA with firearms clubs goes it dont really seem like a good idea at the moment.,

iceage · 16-11-2007 3:53pm

Hey im my head I can tick all three boxes! but I definately could see trouble ahead for Airsofters who say yes to the first two questions in THIS country especially if they want to abide by the I.A.A rules(as they stand now)

Hivemind187 · 16-11-2007 3:59pm

iceage wrote: »

Hey im my head I can tick all three boxes! but I definately could see trouble ahead for Airsofters who say yes to the first two questions in THIS country especially if they want to abide by the I.A.A rules(as they stand now)

Membership in the IAA and following the rules of the IAA code of Conduct do not preclude ownership or use of real steel firearms.

However, we state quite clearly, that we are emphatically not a gun club nor anything to do with real firearms.

Airsoft devices are not guns. End of.

Call them guns if you like, call them oranges or Ted if you feel like it, just remember that even though they should be treated aas if they are real in regards to safety, they are not firearms and associating the two together merely blurs the lines further than they already are.

Leupold · 16-11-2007 4:08pm

I had hoped to seperate the political discussion from the skills discussion but it seems to be difficult. Do you not think that it is a little ironic that some of you airsofters want to distance yourselves from the real steel community right now after stirring up a hornets nest and bringing the issue of regulation back onto the table? Running around a military show such as Salute, dressed in cammo, is only to be expected by the people who choose to go to such a show. This was clearly not the case with the T4BB show. During the resulting media storm, I was horrified to hear airsofters asking for more regulation "to sort out the cowboys". Be carefull what you ask for because many people think anyone interested in guns, real or not, is a "cowboy". You only have to look at the mess that airsoft UK is in right now to see what happens when the regulators get to work. It was the "appearance" of a "gun" , not the function of a "thing" that has robbed airsoft UK of its unregulated position.
Can we not look at the skill and experience transfer here as opposed to the politics?

Gatling · 16-11-2007 4:09pm

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Call them guns if you like, call them oranges or Ted if you feel like it,

i call mine daisy:)

Spitfire666 · 16-11-2007 4:13pm

Leupold wrote: »

I had hoped to seperate the political discussion from the skills discussion but it seems to be difficult. Do you not think that it is a little ironic that some of you airsofters want to distance yourselves from the real steel community right now after stirring up a hornets nest and bringing the issue of regulation back onto the table? Running around a military show such as Salute, dressed in cammo, is only to be expected by the people who choose to go to such a show. This was clearly not the case with the T4BB show. During the resulting media storm, I was horrified to hear airsofters asking for more regulation "to sort out the cowboys". Be carefull what you ask for because many people think anyone interested in guns, real or not, is a "cowboy". You only have to look at the mess that airsoft UK is in right now to see what happens when the regulators get to work. It was the "appearance" of a "gun" , not the function of a "thing" that has robbed airsoft UK of its unregulated position.
Can we not look at the skill and experience transfer here as opposed to the politics?

That would be similir to my view, and possibly why i'm not so popular round here.

Gatling · 16-11-2007 4:19pm

Leupold wrote: »

Can we not look at the skill and experience transfer here as opposed to the politics?

this is what we should be looking at never mind a politcal debate,forget the media debate over airsoft after all the panic we had the other day,
i seem to remember a past thread regarding practical pistol ,a lot of ppl were intrested so what if a airsoft PP. could be arranged for a gunclub how many people would be intrested, Id like to try markmanship i can see it improving ppls games

iceage · 16-11-2007 4:26pm

I like that gattling, could'nt have put it better..

ambro25 · 16-11-2007 4:31pm

Leupold, at least my replies are apolitical (in that I'll not profess to talk on anyone's behalf, just express my opinion/perceptions).

I do not believe that airsofters have "stirred a hornet's nest".

Some people who own airsoft equipment have behaved appallingly and irresponsibly. To sort this out, now and whenever, is and shall remain a matter for law enforcement. Usual sh*t-stirring media types have made hay of it for a short while, adequate defense has been provided, and that's currently that.

Issues that arise as to the availability of equipment to the general public are those which the IAA, in concert with retailers, hopes to address. Between that and an 'Irish VCRA' is a very vast gulf. In any case, in the absence of legislation (which isn't being pursued as best we know), such self-regulation is a matter of consensus and, strictly speaking, since airsoft are 'toys' - not legally binding in any way.

I'm very mindful of the "be careful what you wish for" stance, and have already expressed a few times in here and within the confines of the nascent IAA, that whilst there are undoubtedly advantages to shape any kind of forthcoming regulations at the sport's own initiative (IAA, Members and all interested parties), utmost care always should be taken not to "make our own VCRA" in the process - especially when there is currently no need or call for it.

Lest we do wish to attract further scrutiny still, any association, however brief/purposeful/well-intentioned as it is, between airsoft and real steel is likely to give credence to any detractors happily blurring the line between what are lethal devices and toys.

"Appearance" is all the media has to go with at the moment, and I for one am not anxious to give Mr Duffy or O'Carroll any more material to have a good rant with, than there currently are.

Playing Devil's Advocate, I'll just it loud: "well, they're being trained by real firearms experts/in gun clubs, it must be dangerous". Were I to 'work for the other side', I'd sure as hell make noises with that one, for starters.

Let me be clear: this isn't a p*ss off we're not interested (from me at least), but just extreme caution, and I'll readily concede, possibly overcaution

Hivemind187 · 16-11-2007 4:39pm

Leupold wrote: »

I had hoped to seperate the political discussion from the skills discussion but it seems to be difficult. Do you not think that it is a little ironic that some of you airsofters want to distance yourselves from the real steel community right now after stirring up a hornets nest and bringing the issue of regulation back onto the table? Running around a military show such as Salute, dressed in cammo, is only to be expected by the people who choose to go to such a show. This was clearly not the case with the T4BB show. During the resulting media storm, I was horrified to hear airsofters asking for more regulation "to sort out the cowboys". Be carefull what you ask for because many people think anyone interested in guns, real or not, is a "cowboy". You only have to look at the mess that airsoft UK is in right now to see what happens when the regulators get to work. It was the "appearance" of a "gun" , not the function of a "thing" that has robbed airsoft UK of its unregulated position.
Can we not look at the skill and experience transfer here as opposed to the politics?

I find your attitude a little condescending Leupold but I will try to explain a little further.

You asked for the IAA to get involved, if you had read our constitution (which everyone who has signed up should have by now) you will note that one of the first things we do is distance ourselves from firearms and real steel shooting as a sport.

This has nothing to do with politics or interdisciplinary c*ck-waving and everything to do with establishing our position on the facts. Blurring the lines between the facts is going to do nothing other than confuse people further.

By all means, if you want to use real-steel shooting protocols and systems when operating airsoft kit thats fine and I support any measure which increases the safety aspect of the sport (within reason) but I dont see any reason to start tying the two things together simply for sh1ts and giggles.

The Hawks have a man on their team who has expressed the willingness to go over basic firearms safety, drills, shooting techniques etc and the IAA is putting together a Safety Instructor programe similar to its real steel equivalent. We will not, however, be getting involved with real firearms in any aspect.

Leupold · 16-11-2007 4:55pm

Hivemind187 wrote: »

We will not, however, be getting involved with real firearms in any aspect.

Well, there you have it Airsoft shooters. I did not imagine that an offer to improve skills and safety levels would be seen as tainted. It says a lot about the attitude of those speaking on your behalf to the policy makers in Ireland. I know that as a nation we often copy things from the UK but I am amazed to see that the IAA is willing to copy the mistakes made by the shooting(incl target, sporting, clay etc) and airsoft communities in the UK when they all attempted to distance themselves from one another with arguments about why they were different . The UK government loved this of course and imposed bans and restrictions with great gusto, ending up with what happened to airsofters on the 1st October!
The offer still remains open. Anyone interested can PM me and I will organise the events if there is sufficient interest.

N.O.I.P. · 16-11-2007 5:05pm

Leupold I appreciate your offer (if not your last comment) I'm an airsofter, I'm a member of the IAA and I shoot real steel. However I do not mix my RS shooting with my Airsoft shooting. Regardless of whether or not certain aspects of firearms handling can correspond with airsoft the two activities are fundamentally different and should always remain that way. The IAA should not be promoting a "Firearms" handling course.

Now as hivemind stated earlier the IAA is in the process of creating an airsoft specific safety course. If you have any advice or information that you feel could be of benefit to this then by all means feel free to PM me as I'd be interested in hearing from you.

kdouglas · 16-11-2007 5:08pm

Leupold: this thread is skating on very thin ice at the moment, the reason why the charter forbids the discussion of real steel is for this exact reason, the way i see it, yes airsoft looks like real steel, but at the end of the day it is not, and associating airsoft with real steel gun clubs only gives the media more to sensationalise, as ambro said:
"Playing Devil's Advocate, I'll just it loud: "well, they're being trained by real firearms experts/in gun clubs, it must be dangerous". Were I to 'work for the other side', I'd sure as hell make noises with that one, for starters."

JonAnderton · 16-11-2007 5:50pm

Anything which improves safety can only be a good thing. With regards to the IAA's instructor programme, can I ask who is advising the IAA on the disaplines, handling and range and shooting drills of which it is to consist and who is formulating the protocols. I have spoken before to the person on the hawks team you mentioned and am aware of what training he has had.

Obviously this is a serious and important responsabilty for the IAA, and one they must be commended for instigating, I am positive you have ensured the training will be as appropriate and accurate as necessary and something else which shows the public how serious and responsible we are in our sport

Hivemind187 · 16-11-2007 5:59pm

JonAnderton wrote: »

Anything which improves safety can only be a good thing. With regards to the IAA's instructor programme, can I ask who is advising the IAA on the disaplines, handling and range and shooting drills of which it is to consist and who is formulating the protocols. I have spoken before to the person on the hawks team you mentioned and am aware of what training he has had.

Obviously this is a serious and important responsabilty for the IAA, and one they must be commended for instigating, I am positive you have ensured the training will be as appropriate and accurate as necessary and something else which shows the public how serious and responsible we are in our sport

NOIP is the IAA go-to-guy for regarding this particular subject, I'm sure if you PM him he'll be happy to discuss it with you.

ED E · 16-11-2007 6:06pm

Well, in one way keeping ourselves as seperated as possible from real steels is paramount IMHO. On the other hand we need to, for safeties sake, treat them like they were lethal everywhere outside the skirmish zone.

Evolute · 16-11-2007 6:17pm

Yes its an idea to have some variety of safety course for all I.A.A members.
I also beleive the idea has been in the works for a while.
And I wouldnt mind going to a gun club and firing a few real steel but thats not for airsoft and paintball forums so ill leave it at that.

Oh any idea when you will have the course on track to being done NOIP?

bullets · 16-11-2007 6:27pm

This maybe one of the rare occasions where I can talk about
real steel on an airsoft board

:D

I do both. I have my own rifle I had planned on getting a shotgun
but spend all my money on an airsoft gun! as I honestly could not
make a decision which I wanted more and the airsoft one was just
waiting for me.

airsoft distancing itself from real steel shooting is good as
it helps the sport.

But....there is no denying there is a link between the sport and real steel. After all people want something that Looks like the real thing.
The whole sports concept (correct me if I am wrong) involves simulating
or re-enacting an actual combat situation with if it were real life would be real steel. Thought people would want to make skirmishes as real feeling as possible.

I would encourage people that love Guns or AEG's to visit a real firing range
if given the opportunity. Dont look a gift horse in the mouth!! if given
an invite! Your not mixing the sports your just trying another sport.

I personally think it "wont" help or aid in your airsoft
activities much as in Ireland shooting ranges generally are about shooting itself and have little or nothing to do with training for combat!!!
you wont learn much about tactical situations but maybe a practical pistol
course may help.

With that said.....
if you have never fired a real gun it would be a great experience.
(maybe a bit disappointing if rimfire) but a great kick or enjoyable
experience if center fire.

I say center fire because of recoil.
When I see people in videos running around doing CQB or firing on automatic
during airsoft skirmishes they have no sense of recoil and it does
not look very life like.

If Skirmishers were to maybe fire a few real steel rifles
like a 7.62/.308 at some papertarget and feel the recoil and imagine what it would be like if they were to try and fire one on full auto while moving
or fire a real steel and watch how their sight picture moves after the shot.
it may give them an idea as to what it may be like doing it for real
and it may open up ideas when it comes to planning tactics in
airsoft.

One of the reasons I would LOVE to find an airsoft device that
would simulate recoil.
~B

ScumLord · 16-11-2007 6:33pm

A day airsofting is miles apart from a day shooting real steel, Airsoft is a game and outside of common sense safety measures little other training is needed.

I can see why military enthusiast might like this it would be a great day out and probably great fun. When I think of training for firing a real gun I think of dealing with recoil and stuff like that which just is not an issue with airsoft.

Now we have a new battle, Airsoft Vs Paintball Vs Real steel. Why can't we all just be friends??

Fiach Dubh · 16-11-2007 6:35pm

bullets wrote: »

One of the reasons I would LOVE to find an airsoft device that
would simulate recoil.
~B

It's on the way, Escort are developing a Gas Blowback mechbox at the moment that'll fit into an AEG body. Won't give full recoil but some is better then none. Also a reciprocating bolt that locks when you run out of rounds will be very nice

Sorry, back on topic.

Hivemind187 · 16-11-2007 6:39pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Why can't we all just be friends??

+1

ambro25 · 16-11-2007 8:40pm

Leupold wrote: »

Well, there you have it Airsoft shooters. I did not imagine that an offer to improve skills and safety levels would be seen as tainted. It says a lot about the attitude of those speaking on your behalf to the policy makers in Ireland. I know that as a nation we often copy things from the UK but I am amazed to see that the IAA is willing to copy the mistakes made by the shooting(incl target, sporting, clay etc) and airsoft communities in the UK when they all attempted to distance themselves from one another with arguments about why they were different . The UK government loved this of course and imposed bans and restrictions with great gusto, ending up with what happened to airsofters on the 1st October!
The offer still remains open. Anyone interested can PM me and I will organise the events if there is sufficient interest.

Leupold, you do not know what the IAA has in the works (until it's submitted to all Members for democratic approval), you are not party to discussions between the IAA and its Members, both individuals and associates.

Your offer is not seen as "tainted". It is laudable, but presents a quandary. Some people here (me included) have expressed negative opinions about your offer, and others have embraced it. The IAA is not "instructing" people or its Members to tell you to take a running jump in the Liffey, the IAA has voiced concerns about the potential for association between airsoft & RS which your proposal may create, and which the IAA expressly wants to avoid.

Though I've remained, and fully intend to remain, civil in this thread, unfortunately I now find myself having to side along with Hivemind and, after your last post, am now finding you decidedly condescending, as if addessing a bunch of kids out of necessity or pity (I'm not sure which), and needlessly alarmist. Pity, for you seemed like a sound guy before that.

iceage · 16-11-2007 9:27pm

I think the poll replys say it all. There does seem to be a relatively large interest. Interesting to see how this pans out.

o1s1n · 16-11-2007 9:32pm

I think this thread was doomed from it's creation as the question posed was not given adequate choices in the poll.

Do you think that there is crossover between airsoft and real steel?

The answers should have been;

Yes I do.
No I do not.

However, the answers given really had nothing to do with the question and everything to do with safety and whether airsofters were interested in shooting real steel.

Yes, I would attend a safety and marksmanship course.
Yes, I would like to visit a shooting club.

This then obviously leads to confusion for a couple of reasons.

Any responsible airsofter will be interested in safety. Most airsofters may be interested in shooting. This does not therefore mean they think there should be more crossovers between the two sports. The poll is void.

Masada · 16-11-2007 9:48pm

fully agree., the "NO" option wasnt there in the beginning and the poll dont really make sense.,

iceage · 16-11-2007 9:51pm

vtec wrote: »

fully agree., the "NO" option wasnt there in the beginning and the poll dont really make sense.,

Is that right?? goin back to read it a gain from the start

o1s1n · 16-11-2007 10:00pm

One of the most important things we're trying to do is to clear up misconceptions about what airsoft is and is capable of.

A large portion of people out there still think what we shoot can smash through double glazing, maim the elderly and help terrorist groups overthrow our capital. Associating ourselves on a formal level with the sport of shooting will only perpetuate this myth that what we use can be lethal in the wrong hands and requires the same level of regulation. It can be dangerous to a degree and safety needs to be practiced, but it's still nowhere near the lethality of real steel.

The level of safety and relative harmlessness of the equipment in our sport is a major selling point. A fact we need to get out there. Associating ourselves or drawing comparisons to real steel shooting shouldn't be made on that reason alone.

Obviously this doesn't mean that airsofters or IAA members can not shoot real steel. That would be ridiculous. As reflected in the poll, many people would be interested in doing so. Myself included.

It is about the association of airsoft itself.

For that reason, I'm now going to close this thread. If anyone of you wish to try out shooting, (Which I'm sure many do) There is a great shooting forum on boards which you can take your issues and questions to.

Airsoft and Real Steel

Do you think that there is crossover between airsoft and real steel? 37 votes

Comments