Creches ban Nativity play because of complaints by Non-Christian Parents

Romero · 04-12-2007 09:02AM #1

Heard this on the radio and it made me angry, apparantly a chain of creches has decided to cancel this years nativity play following complaints from Non-Cristian (Non-national) parents. This is a bloody disgrace if you ask me. Its an innocent tradition that does no harm to any of the children, and to me it builds up divides in our society, there was even a jewish lady on the radio sayin that she did it as a child and enjoyed it even though it was not part of the Jewish religion. Seriosly if people want to come here and intergrate then there needs to be some give and take in fitting in to Irish society. The Creche management should be ashamed of themselves for bowing to the pressure of a small minority of these parents. :mad:

Hagar · 04-12-2007 09:06AM

Madness, absolute madness. This has to be nipped in the bud now before it gets any worse.

is_that_so · 04-12-2007 09:09AM

Hard one to call but it's just a play and a bit of fun. Most parents get a buzz out of the child "performing". How much can a child of crèche age make of the baby Jesus anyway?

Mr.Nice Guy · 04-12-2007 09:10AM

Chrsitmas is the favourite time of year for the PC whackos. Did you hear about this little gem from Australia:

Santas in Australia's largest city have been told not to use Father Christmas's traditional "ho ho ho" greeting because it may be offensive to women, it was reported Thursday.

Sydney's Santa Clauses have instead been instructed to say "ha ha ha" instead, the Daily Telegraph reported.

One disgruntled Santa told the newspaper a recruitment firm warned him not to use "ho ho ho" because it could frighten children and was too close to "ho", a US slang term for prostitute.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071115/wl_asia_afp/lifestyleaustraliachristmasoffbeat

At least Scrooge wasn't a politically correct c*nt.

deman · 04-12-2007 09:11AM

This type of thing makes my blood boil. But it's not only the creches and the likes. Just listen to our very own leaders and other "Christian" politicians around the world wishing everyone "Happy Holidays". Do you think that if an Irishman were to go and live in Saudi Arabia and complain about Ramadam and other Islamic festivals, would the Saudi authorities do anything about it? The answer is YES, but NOT what you's have hoped for. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being racist here. I'm just pointing out that we also have a heritage and nobody, NOBODY, should try to take that away from us.

Sizzler · 04-12-2007 09:13AM

And we back down, fcuking ridiculous !

If we travel to another country we have the good grace to respect their laws and traditions but when the shoe is on the other foot we bend over and say 'do your worst lads' :mad:

I'd love to know what creche it was so I can give them a call....

KingOfFairview · 04-12-2007 09:13AM

I'd want to see a source for this before I'd get too up in arms, or even the names of some of the people who have complained, because this type of thing sounds suspiciously like the old "They all get free cars" etc BS... I've heard this story in many varioations over the years and I've yet to hear a verifiable source fo it. dosent mean its not true, but I'd take it with a pinch of salt until proven.

If true its ridiculous. I'm not christian, but when I was in Christian schools I couldnt object to their practices just because they didnt suit me. I wouldnt expect to be able to go to Iran or Saudi and tell them to tone down the Islam or go to Alabama and tell them they were taking Christianity cause in either case the nutacases would probably kill you for it.

homah_7ft · 04-12-2007 09:14AM

If the creche management team is about to alienate paying customers I say they are right to cancel it in favour of some other activity.

Edit: Being Irish does not equal being christian.

robinph · 04-12-2007 09:15AM

Link to the story and the name of the creche that is doing this, otherwise its just a made up story inorder to get you all upset about "PC'ness gone mad".

Hagar · 04-12-2007 09:18AM

homah_7ft wrote: »

If the creche management team is about to alienate paying customers I say they are right to cancel it in favour of some other activity.

Edit: Being Irish does not equal being christian.

How will you feel when your local supermarket stops selling pork and bacon because its alienates some paying customers?

homah_7ft · 04-12-2007 09:20AM

Hagar wrote: »

How will you feel when your local supermarket stops selling pork and bacon because its alienates some paying customers?

Err I would feel terrible if it were to happen. A creche is not a supermarket.

KingOfFairview · 04-12-2007 09:20AM

Hagar wrote: »

How will you feel when your local supermarket stops selling pork and bacon because its alienates some paying customers?

Do you seriously think this is going to happen? whats next, soon they'll take all the jobs?

ericl · 04-12-2007 09:22AM

I'd tell them too fuk off and then wish them a Merry Christmas.

Duckjob · 04-12-2007 09:24AM

PC fúckology.

Hopefully said creches will loose business over it and fold, and we'll be left with the non-stupid ones.

Xavi6 · 04-12-2007 09:24AM

Well to be fair the standard of nativity plays has dropped as of late....

Hagar · 04-12-2007 09:25AM

No I don't seriously think it will happen, yet.

If the creche traditionally put on a nativity play then that's what the customers of the business are buying in to. To deny the majority who expected a play for the sake of a vocal minority who don't want one is ridiculous.

/ That's going in the Humour Forum.

robinph · 04-12-2007 09:25AM

Hagar wrote: »

How will you feel when your local supermarket stops selling pork and bacon because its alienates some paying customers?

I'd be thinking that the Daily Mail was having a slow news day so made up a new variation on the theme.

Sizzler · 04-12-2007 09:26AM

It was being discussed on the radio earlier so I presume it must be in one the papers today

Also a big thing in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/02/nativity102.xml

KingOfFairview · 04-12-2007 09:26AM

robinph wrote: »

I'd be thinking that the Daily Mail was having a slow news day so made up a new variation on the theme.

Bingo. Bang on the money there I'd say chief

deman · 04-12-2007 09:30AM

homah_7ft wrote: »

If the creche management team is about to alienate paying customers I say they are right to cancel it in favour of some other activity.

Edit: Being Irish does not equal being christian.

And what about the children of Christian families? Don't they pay too? Maybe they a being alienated? How many parents will pull their kids out of this creche because they are not allowed to celebrate the meaning of Christmas?

FYI Ireland is still a Christian country.

KingOfFairview · 04-12-2007 09:33AM

deman wrote: »

And what about the children of Christian families? Don't they pay too? Maybe they a being alienated? How many parents will pull their kids out of this creche because they are not allowed to celebrate the meaning of Christmas?

FYI Ireland is still a Christian country.

Well, the free market will dictate any place that actually does this will close down pretty sharpish if the parents care enough about it, so theres not much to worry about is there?

homah_7ft · 04-12-2007 09:36AM

deman wrote: »

... they are not allowed to celebrate the meaning of Christmas?

By true meaning I presume you mean increased retail sales period?

Rob_l · 04-12-2007 09:37AM

deman wrote: »

And what about the children of Christian families? Don't they pay too? Maybe they a being alienated? How many parents will pull their kids out of this creche because they are not allowed to celebrate the meaning of Christmas?

FYI Ireland is still a Christian country.

I thought the special status of the christian religion was taken out of the irish constitution

MattKid · 04-12-2007 09:39AM

I think the Nativity plays are just wrong. Naming a baby doll Jesus :eek:

deman · 04-12-2007 09:39AM

Rob_l wrote: »

I thought the special status of the christian religion was taken out of the irish constitution

When?

robinph · 04-12-2007 09:43AM

Sizzler wrote: »

It was being discussed on the radio earlier so I presume it must be in one the papers today

Also a big thing in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/02/nativity102.xml

That story is basically journo decided that they wanted their kid to be dressed up as a wise man rather than as a dwarf after the teachers in the school had got a bit fed up with making angel costumes year after year so went for a change of play this year. Said journo then goes of and finds some people from "other" religions to ask them why they insisted on Snow White rather than the nativity, person from "other" religion says "stop talking rubbish and leave me alone, we don't give a crap what play they put on".

Journo then goes off and makes up an article about the outraged parents, hoping that nobody notices that "other" religions have nothing to do with the change of play at all.

deman · 04-12-2007 09:43AM

MattKid wrote: »

I think the Nativity plays are just wrong. Naming a baby doll Jesus :eek:

:D:D How dare they????

monkeyfudge · 04-12-2007 09:43AM

Are they replacing the play with anything else?

A bit of variety would be nice... The nativity thing is a bit 'played' at this stage, isn't it?

Anyway... Creches typically aren't run by the church and dropping the indoctrination of young children with strange ideas of virgin births is a good thing.

Rob_l · 04-12-2007 09:45AM

deman wrote: »

When?

i have a felling this might be said removal of special status that and the fact its not part of the constitution anymore

Fifth Amendment of the Constitution Act, 1972
[Removed from the Constitution the special position of the Catholic
Church and the recognition of other named religious denominations.]

Hagar · 04-12-2007 09:46AM

Rob_l wrote: »

I thought the special status of the christian religion was taken out of the irish constitution

That was the special status of the Roman Catholic Church. It was removed, but it didn't change the traditions of the vast majority of Irish people.

seamus · 04-12-2007 09:47AM

deman wrote: »

When?

5th of January 1973
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

How will you feel when your local supermarket stops selling pork and bacon because its alienates some paying customers?

Well, you see that's different again. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a supermarket product.

The train of thought on this one seems obvious;

1. All kids are to participate in a nativity play.
2. Some over-zealous religious parent complains about it
3. The suggestion is made that some kids can choose to do the play while others do something else
4. Creche decides that segregating the children along religious lines probably isn't a good idea, not to mention the extra resources required to split the class
5. Nativity is scrapped.

It seems that people are happy enough to go about saying, "You're free to practice your religion, just don't try force it down our throats", but when the same thing is applied to them, they're up in arms.

We're a secular state with christian values, not a christian state.

po0k · 04-12-2007 09:51AM

Only confuses the little tikes.

Rob_l · 04-12-2007 09:52AM

Hagar wrote: »

That was the special status of the Roman Catholic Church. It was removed, but it didn't change the traditions of the vast majority of Irish people.

Tradition is fine and good
but is there a place for these christian traditions in the education of the young which is surely what creches are for. I think is more the question

Personally I feel it is of little consequence I was brought up with them but feel no obligation to the church. However I can understand some parents objections but surely if they feel it is not what they want they can withdraw their children from participating rather than ban the act entirely

deman · 04-12-2007 09:53AM

seamus wrote: »

5th of January 1973
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

As Hagar already said, that was the position of the Roman Catholic Church conceding its "special position" to other named religious denominations.

homah_7ft · 04-12-2007 09:57AM

Rob_l wrote: »

Tradition is fine and good
but is there a place for these christian traditions in the education of the young which is surely what creches are for. I think is more the question

Personally I feel it is of little consequence I was brought up with them but feel no obligation to the church. However I can understand some parents objections but surely if they feel it is not what they want they can withdraw their children from participating rather than ban the act entirely

As Seamus, you then have religious segregation. Why not just do some other activity and the parents who want their children to perform a nativity play can organise it.

Hagar · 04-12-2007 09:57AM

Rob_l wrote: »

Tradition is fine and good
but is there a place for these christian traditions in the education of the young which is surely what creches are for. I think is more the question

Unless I'm mistaken the prime use of creches is child minding while parents work.
If they are a valid part of our education system why not use them to pass on our traditions?

homah_7ft · 04-12-2007 09:58AM

Hagar wrote: »

Unless I'm mistaken the prime use of creches is child minding while parents work.
If they are a valid part of our education system why not use them to pass on our traditions?

Is it really one of "Our" traditions. Surely they should be shown how to spend money at christmas.

seamus · 04-12-2007 10:01AM

deman wrote: »

As Hagar already said, that was the position of the Roman Catholic Church conceding its "special position" to other named religious denominations.

Yes...thereby removing any official affiliation with the RC church.

Officially, the state has no religion. 85% of its habitants listed themselves on the census as roman catholic, but in less formal/mammy-filled polls, less than 50% call themselves practising catholics.

I wouldn't deny that the population and its government maintain christian values, but the actual beliefs are gone by the wayside. Christmas has very little to do with Jesus any more. Most people seem to be pissed about this nativity thing purely because they remember doing one as a child and they want to see their little Fiachra dressed up as a shepherd so they can put the video on youtube and email their mates the link to say "Isn't he soooo cute?".

Look, the main problem here is that most of us were educated in public schools that were intertwined with the local church. Thus, we associate all these religious things, such as nativity, communion, confirmation etc, with going to primary school.
It's the *church* who should take responsibility for the religious education and indoctrination of its community and who should organise the nativity. The school shouldn't be involved at all. That way, parents who want their children to participate have the choice to take them to church and everyone else can get on with their lives.

Hagar · 04-12-2007 10:02AM

Maybe I'm a little biased. I was one of the little angels* who sang for the Lord Mayor in the Mansion House as did my younger sister and brother in their turn. I suppose we should give that up too although I can't see the harm it did us.

* Yes I was young and innocent once, a long, long time ago.

robinph · 04-12-2007 10:03AM

seamus wrote: »

The train of thought on this one seems obvious;

1. All kids are to participate in a nativity play.
2. Some over-zealous religious parent complains about it
3. The suggestion is made that some kids can choose to do the play while others do something else
4. Creche decides that segregating the children along religious lines probably isn't a good idea, not to mention the extra resources required to split the class
5. Nativity is scrapped.

Apart from point 2 being a parent that might be about right. It's far more likely to be decided by amongst the christian teachers of the creche/ school though, and probably not for any PC type reason.

monkeyfudge · 04-12-2007 10:06AM

Hagar wrote: »

I suppose we should give that up too although I can't see the harm it did us.

Well you believe in catholicism now don't you? That could be considered harmful.

I played a roman centurion in my nativity as a child... that was pretty cool.

seamus · 04-12-2007 10:09AM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Well you believe in catholicism now don't you? That could be considered harmful.

I played a roman centurion in my nativity as a child... that was pretty cool.

I remember playing an elf, wearing green tights. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the nativity, but it's hard to fit 30 kids into a play featuring 3 wise men, a couple and a baby, so you never know what plot devices they come up with.

Hagar · 04-12-2007 10:10AM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Well you believe in catholicism now don't you? That could be considered harmful.

I played a roman centurion in my nativity as a child... that was pretty cool.

No. I'm an Atheist but I still love Christmas.

Wishbone Ash · 04-12-2007 10:10AM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I'd want to see a source for this before I'd get too up in arms, or even the names of some of the people who have complained, because this type of thing sounds suspiciously like the old "They all get free cars" etc BS... I've heard this story in many varioations over the years and I've yet to hear a verifiable source fo it.

robinph wrote: »

Link to the story and the name of the creche that is doing this, otherwise its just a made up story inorder to get you all upset about "PC'ness gone mad".

It was discussed on Liveline (Radio 1 - Joe Duffy) yesterday at the behest of an upset parent. The creche issued a statement confirming the withdrawal from the traditional nativity play as a result of objections from non-Christian parents.

I don't think there is any reason to disbelieve the matter.

citytillidie · 04-12-2007 10:31AM

Just here and the UK have got to PC for all the immigrants that have come to these shores. If they want to come then they should not complain about our socity and way of life, and the Christmas Nativity play is part of everyones life here from a young age.

Next they will be trying to ban Christmas Carols just because some of them say Jesus.

I heard on the news that over in England some coucil have had to change the names of the lights they put up from Christmas light to Winter lights now thats just stupid.

robinph · 04-12-2007 10:32AM

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It was discussed on Liveline (Radio 1 - Joe Duffy) yesterday at the behest of an upset parent. The creche issued a statement confirming the withdrawal from the traditional nativity play as a result of objections from non-Christian parents.

I don't think there is any reason to disbelieve the matter.

I'm still not convinced, even that UK Telegraph article that was trying to present itself as proof of the nativity being cancelled due to non-christian parents complaints was actually just the results of a survey amongst schools as to what play they were doing this year and then another story built around it.

Even allowing for the particular creche/ school possibly wanting to stay anonymous I've yet to see anything that suggests this place really exists and is not just a figment of someones imagination.

robinph · 04-12-2007 10:37AM

citytillidie wrote: »

I heard on the news that over in England some coucil have had to change the names of the lights they put up from Christmas light to Winter lights now thats just stupid.

That same story is just being recycled from years ago:
Beeb
...and is a load of rubbish. No body complained, just some over eager junior muppet in the council decided that someone should be offeneded so changed the wording on a poster.

KingOfFairview · 04-12-2007 11:07AM

As said before my opnion on this type of thig is IF true ridiculous, but dont believe everything you hear, especially when it comes to immigrants because a lot of people have agendas on it. check the likelyhood of a story before becoming outraged like a retired, port-guzzling English Sergeant Major over it.

Dave! · 04-12-2007 11:21AM

Romero wrote: »

Heard this on the radio and it made me angry, apparantly a chain of creches has decided to cancel this years nativity play following complaints from Non-Cristian (Non-national) parents. This is a bloody disgrace if you ask me. Its an innocent tradition that does no harm to any of the children, and to me it builds up divides in our society, there was even a jewish lady on the radio sayin that she did it as a child and enjoyed it even though it was not part of the Jewish religion. Seriosly if people want to come here and intergrate then there needs to be some give and take in fitting in to Irish society. The Creche management should be ashamed of themselves for bowing to the pressure of a small minority of these parents. :mad:

i. How do you know who complained? You haven't provided a source containing that information
ii. The vast majority of our immigrants are Polish, and Poland has a huge Roman Catholic population. Which "non-nationals" (pretty silly term) do you think are lodging these complaints exactly?

04-12-2007 11:22AM

Hagar wrote: »

How will you feel when your local supermarket stops selling pork and bacon because its alienates some paying customers?

That would never happen. A supermarket would always accommodate their customers.. my local dunnes has a special polish section now.

Perhaps this is what the creches should do and accommodate for other religions. I mean, it would definately add to the normally boring Nativity plays, and would be educational for the youngins too.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4 · 04-12-2007 11:43AM

Romero wrote: »

Heard this on the radio and it made me angry, apparantly a chain of creches has decided to cancel this years nativity play following complaints from Non-Cristian (Non-national) parents. This is a bloody disgrace if you ask me. Its an innocent tradition that does no harm to any of the children, and to me it builds up divides in our society, there was even a jewish lady on the radio sayin that she did it as a child and enjoyed it even though it was not part of the Jewish religion. Seriosly if people want to come here and intergrate then there needs to be some give and take in fitting in to Irish society. The Creche management should be ashamed of themselves for bowing to the pressure of a small minority of these parents. :mad:

Its very hard for me to give thanks to my gods in this country. Zeus, Thor and the Space lizzard queen will have their vengence, in this life or the next

Creches ban Nativity play because of complaints by Non-Christian Parents

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