Cheapsofts confirmed in Limerick

Tigger · 26-01-2008 04:31PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

You were the one who said "it isnt a physical store if you live in Sligo" which implies that either "I can't see it so its status as either a real or unreal store is unknowable" (quantum) or "I live in the country and nothing outside of the country is real" (bumpkinist philosophy).

i'm a dub i have seen the mia store but you still would not be able to use it as a walk in

Shiva delivers in person, he does not have a store you can walk into.

he also takes money in person this is trading in person contrary to youre previous assertation that he dosent

) They trade online and in person again, the reason I counted them separately

I have stood in MIA's store and it is indeed a physical one. In fact, it was a physical one before it opened an online adjunct.

yes thats probably why you forgot to count it

And don't hug me, I dont know where you've been.

is ther yore ** expression actionable here?

o1s1n · 26-01-2008 04:40PM

Whether or not MIA trades in person doesn't really matter. He has an online store. Therefore we have 4 online stores. One of which happens to be a walk in store too.

Wolf armouries is a walk in store. Does that mean that wolfarmouries.co.uk isn't an online store? You sir make no sense.

rbd wrote: »

yes thats probably why you forgot to count it

Yep, he just doesn't like admitting when he's wrong

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I have stood in MIA's store and it is indeed a physical one. In fact, it was a physical one before it opened an online adjunct.

If you want to get really pedantic, Derek was selling airsoft products on the BFSL website long before he opened the MIA store.

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 04:44PM

rbd wrote: »

i agree with most of that and understand the logic behing all of it
however image is everything
chainsaws and hurleys have obvious and constructive uses

unfortunately them yokes we play with look like guns

you need a lisence to rent/sell videos btw but this does not mean you need a lisence to rent/buy them same with cinemas and ciggeretts the katana incident in fingerless gave me some hope as all that was proposed was a review of the current legislation as the monister for justice said " at the moment if yer not going to or from a sword needing place ie shop or competion or home and if it puts fear in public yer in big trouble" which is what it is now for airsoft but.......

i'm still worried that its gonna escilate so as with videos i propose a retail lisence
but not a personal lisense and i don't think that one follows the other no matter how cutting the rhetoric surrounding your assertation that it will

You're assuming that the goal is to have the public actually like us. It's not.

The ultimate goal is for the public to forget about us completely or at worst tolerate us begrudgingly.

The Irish legislature has a depressing habit of looking at England and making decisions based on what they have dne already - without taking into account the political motives of such legislations. Worse still many Irish people actually support this mentality. The issue of Katana's is a prime example just to show you how utterly moronic it is, the UK legislation specifically attacks "Samurai swords" varying in length from 9" (not a sword but a Tanto knife) to 60"+ (which would be a Nodachi and not actually a "sword" in the classical sense) - all of which information is irrelevant since every chefs knife and meat cleaver or decent quality uses the same curved blade principal to give a better cutting edge and yet no one wants to licence chefs knives.

I digress.

Introducing a licensing system (which video shops dont need) is needlessly complicating everything. It is an additional cost to retailers for trading in inoccuous items and it will demand a reclassification of Airsoft devices - thats not rhetoric, its a fact.

Now think about the knee-jerk legislation that this country is prone to (the age of consent, magic-mushies, knives, asbo's, learner drivers etc) and imagine the kind of over-zealous rubbish they would be in a position to apply against airsofters if such a reclassification took place. At this stage we could argue until blue in the face that they are scientifically harmless it wouldnt matter - someone somewhere will be trying to make themselves look good by "fighting the menace of replica guns" and you can bet that they will look for the sternest sounding, most restrictive laws they can come up with (this makes them appear to solve the problem) regardless of whether they have any genuine effect on the problem.

Licensing will cost money. It will create beuraucracy. It will make it more difficult to get kit. It will slow the proliferation of airsoft as a legitimate hobby. It will lead to other restrictions.

Its not rhetoric rbd, its common sense.

I still say that a few set rules regarding age, proof of ID and a maybe informing the individual of the responsible use of airsoft with the possibility of fines against those retailers who flout the rules is the way to go. Put the responsibility on the individual.

Arcto · 26-01-2008 04:45PM

You were the one who said "it isnt a physical store if you live in Sligo" which implies that either "I can't see it so its status as either a real or unreal store is unknowable" (quantum) or "I live in the country and nothing outside of the country is real" (bumpkinist philosophy).

I havnt laughed at an internet remark in awhile. Good one!

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 04:47PM

rbd wrote: »

i'm a dub i have seen the mia store but you still would not be able to use it as a walk in

Tell that to Kdouglas and Alvin T. Grey.

[/QUOTE]he also takes money in person this is trading in person contrary to youre previous assertation that he dosent[/QUOTE]

You hav to order online in order to receive anything. Hence, "online" store.

[/QUOTE]yes thats probably why you forgot to count it[/QUOTE]

I did count it. 3 online stores (because they exist online rather than having a physical presence) and 1 walk-in store (because you can walk into it and buy something off the shelf).

[/QUOTE]is ther yore ** expression actionable here?[/QUOTE]

Its not AH so probably.

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 04:51PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Whether or not MIA trades in person doesn't really matter. He has an online store. Therefore we have 4 online stores. One of which happens to be a walk in store too.

Wolf armouries is a walk in store. Does that mean that wolfarmouries.co.uk isn't an online store? You sir make no sense.

Yes, it means Wolfarmouries is a walk-in store that trades online. IT IS PHYSICAL, not VIRTUAL.

I refer you sir to Douglas "Dreams/Reality" picture in Father Ted.

[/QUOTE]Yep, he just doesn't like admitting when he's wrong

[/QUOTE]

Dont make me reach for the Jombie doll!!!

[/QUOTE]If you want to get really pedantic, Derek was selling airsoft products on the BFSL website long before he opened the MIA store.[/QUOTE]

Lies! He had an add up but wasnt actively trading (as far as I know) and moreover that store was part of his actual store in Blanchardstown which if I'm not mistaken involved bricks, mortar and even shelves.

o1s1n · 26-01-2008 05:10PM

MIA is a walk in store that trades online. True. Which means, MIA has an online presence. So therefore Ireland has 4 places online when you can buy airsoft products. There are 4 URLs registered to individuals within Ireland where I can type into my browser and find airsoft for sale. The fact that one of them has a walk in store doesn't factor into this.

I do know what you're trying to say. But I think you're trying to argue the point more to save face than anything else.

And yes, he was trading on BFSL. I was pointing out that it predates his airsoft store. Obviously, the BFSL store was open at the same time..therefore we go back to having the same argument again.

Now, I am going to ask everyone to get back on topic as I think some cruel person has wound up the key in hivemind's back and he may go all day.

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 05:21PM

o1s1n wrote: »

MIA is a walk in store that trades online. True. Which means, MIA has an online presence. So therefore Ireland has 4 places online when you can buy airsoft products. There are 4 URLs registered to individuals within Ireland where I can type into my browser and find airsoft for sale. The fact that one of them has a walk in store doesn't factor into this.

I do know what you're trying to say. But I think you're trying to argue the point more to save face than anything else.

And yes, he was trading on BFSL. I was pointing out that it predates his airsoft store. Obviously, the BFSL store was open at the same time..therefore we go back to having the same argument again.

Now, I am going to ask everyone to get back on topic as I think some cruel person has wound up the key in hivemind's back and he may go all day.

No keys anymore, got me some ever-ready batteries ... thats right folks! I'M ALL ELECTRICAL NOW!!!!

... damn cold going in though.

Oisin, I'll explain this off forum if you like

o1s1n · 26-01-2008 05:24PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

No keys anymore, got me some ever-ready batteries ... thats right folks! I'M ALL ELECTRICAL NOW!!!!

... damn cold going in though.

Oisin, I'll explain this off forum if you like

I'll save you the trouble

I Know exactly what you're going to say. (maybe minus all the philosophical and theological theory but that's just gloss to be honest)

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 05:28PM

o1s1n wrote: »

I'll save you the trouble I Know exactly what you're going to say. (maybe minus all the philosophical and theological theory but that's just gloss to be honest)

specifically to annoy O1s1n

> LOL.

Now back to the topic at hand.

I still say that ignoring the people running the bong-shops selling cheap airsoft is the way to go. Ignoring meaning to avoid giving them publicity and not purchasing ANYTHING from them. The more of a separation we can drive between us and them the better.

Tigger · 26-01-2008 05:33PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

I still say that a few set rules regarding age, proof of ID and a maybe informing the individual of the responsible use of airsoft with the possibility of fines against those retailers who flout the rules is the way to go. Put the responsibility on the individual.

you say make the retailer ask for id
i say thats only introducable by a lisence

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 05:38PM

rbd wrote: »

you say make the retailer ask for id
i say thats only introducable by a lisence

No, its not.

Video stores are obliged to not provide 18's certificate films to anyone below that age. Videogame stores are required to do the same.

All you need to do is to have the law state that "the supply of airsoft devices to persons below the age of 16 years is subject to a fine of X and to persons over 16 but below 18 without parental consent is subject to a fine of Y".

No one really took the ERSB and Cert warnings seriously until a few years ago, now you see GAME ID'ing people for GTA all the time. Just try looking a little young and renting Basic Instinct in Xtravision. Actually, on that point, try sending your 14 year old cousin to buy you a playboy ... he'll be asked for ID and then refused.

Tigger · 26-01-2008 05:40PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Now, I am going to ask everyone to get back on topic as I think some cruel person has wound up the key in hivemind's back and he may go all day.

i'm just happy he represents the forces of airsoft

Tigger · 26-01-2008 05:41PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

No, its not.

Video stores are obliged to not provide 18's certificate films to anyone below that age. Videogame stores are required to do the same.

video stores need a lisence
i wrote that earlier

o1s1n · 26-01-2008 05:44PM

rbd wrote: »

i'm just happy he represents the forces of airsoft

Yep. Just sit him down with some important officials, wind a few times and then bugger off for a few hours. Works a treat.

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 05:45PM

rbd wrote: »

video stores need a lisence
i wrote that earlier

No. They need a business lincense as far as I am aware. Much in the same way a mechanic or a plumber does.

Again, even if they need a specific license videogame stores have been fined in the past for not adhering to the ESRB ratings.

Actually, and I might be wrong about this, but dont TM, KJW and a bunch of other airsoft manufacturers print on the side of hte boxes "For Adult use only" or "Over 18's Only" or some such warning?

Edit: One other thing, this all assumes that Airsoft is under some kind of threat. I had hoped that the DoJ minutes would have made people feel more at ease.

Tigger · 26-01-2008 05:50PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

No. They need a business lincense as far as I am aware. Much in the same way a mechanic or a plumber does.

Again, even if they need a specific license videogame stores have been fined in the past for not adhering to the ESRB ratings.

Actually, and I might be wrong about this, but dont TM, KJW and a bunch of other airsoft manufacturers print on the side of hte boxes "For Adult use only" or "Over 18's Only" or some such warning?

Edit: One other thing, this all assumes that Airsoft is under some kind of threat. I had hoped that the DoJ minutes would have made people feel more at ease.

the legislation to fine comes from the store first having to obtain a lisence from the censor
ier the guy who puts the over 18s rulres on
i know you don't wankt me to win and i wish it was as simple as saying "from now on over 18s only" but it aint
try to come up with a rule thats got age restrictions for syupply without it being the law and a lisence to sell under that law
i'm sure youre very good at what you do but i'm a retailer and i do know what i'm talking about

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0022/index.html

bullets · 26-01-2008 05:54PM

My God what have I started :eek:
its like reading a thread over in the shooting board

;)

~B

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 06:04PM

rbd wrote: »

the legislation to fine comes from the store first having to obtain a lisence from the censor
ier the guy who puts the over 18s rulres on
i know you don't wankt me to win and i wish it was as simple as saying "from now on over 18s only" but it aint
try to come up with a rule thats got age restrictions for syupply without it being the law and a lisence to sell under that law
i'm sure youre very good at what you do but i'm a retailer and i do know what i'm talking about

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0022/index.html

Good for you.

Doesnt change two salient facts though.

1) Airsoft is not under any threat right now nor in the forseeable future.

2) Even if you do introduce the license for retailers, it will not stop the unlicensed sale of kit from market stalls, car-boot sales and quicky stuff from mobile phone shops and bong-shops.

You are probably right about the video shops. I wasnt aware that they required a license from the censor, but that to is a red herring because even though they are subject to fines etc garages still sell ciggies to kids, video stores still rent 18's flicks to minors etc.

All a license will do for airsoft is put a charge on the retailer (which will get passed on to us), create a beuraucracy in the government to cope with it (defeating the purpose of the inclusion of the 1joule section of the CJB2006), provide the grounds for further restrictions to be extended to the individual airsofter.

At present the government has no plans to legislate against Airsoft nor to change the law to specifically control them. It doesnt make sense to do so because it would require reclassification of the devices. Then you have the mess of trying to define exactly what an airsoft device is (which believe me is harder than you'd think).

While I understand the reasons you want to see tighter control, so do I, the answer is not licensing, it will create more problems than it solves.

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 06:05PM

bullets wrote: »

My God what have I started :eek:
its like reading a thread over in the shooting board ;)

~B

Nah, no one is making broad statements blaming airsoft for the worlds ill's yet

Tigger · 26-01-2008 06:21PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Good for you.

Doesnt change two salient facts though.

1) Airsoft is not under any threat right now nor in the forseeable future.

2) Even if you do introduce the license for retailers, it will not stop the unlicensed sale of kit from market stalls, car-boot sales and quicky stuff from mobile phone shops and bong-shops.

You are probably right about the video shops. I wasnt aware that they required a license from the censor, but that to is a red herring because even though they are subject to fines etc garages still sell ciggies to kids, video stores still rent 18's flicks to minors etc.

All a license will do for airsoft is put a charge on the retailer (which will get passed on to us), create a beuraucracy in the government to cope with it (defeating the purpose of the inclusion of the 1joule section of the CJB2006), provide the grounds for further restrictions to be extended to the individual airsofter.

At present the government has no plans to legislate against Airsoft nor to change the law to specifically control them. It doesnt make sense to do so because it would require reclassification of the devices. Then you have the mess of trying to define exactly what an airsoft device is (which believe me is harder than you'd think).

While I understand the reasons you want to see tighter control, so do I, the answer is not licensing, it will create more problems than it solves.

i hope you are right
have another hug (((((lol)))))

c-90 · 26-01-2008 06:26PM

this thread is way off topic and only causing hastle i think it should be locked:D

Hivemind187 · 26-01-2008 07:07PM

c-90 wrote: »

this thread is way off topic and only causing hastle i think it should be locked:D

Its not hassle ... its debate. Which is fine.

Although I'll be calling sxual harassment on rbd if he keeps hugging me :eek:

Tigger · 26-01-2008 07:11PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Its not hassle ... its debate. Which is fine.

Although I'll be calling sxual harassment on rbd if he keeps hugging me :eek:

its not that kind of hugging

c-90 · 26-01-2008 08:31PM

hes trieng to steal your wallet:D

Judge dredd · 27-01-2008 12:27AM

My head hurts after reading everything Hive wrote, i've even forgotten what the topic was. Gonna lay down for a few minutes and hope all those big words swirlling around my head go away.

Cheapsofts confirmed in Limerick

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