The €4.5k scratchplate

Thomas from Presence · 14-02-2008 1:04pm #1

Saw this on ebay and thought "what a bargain" but realised it's just for an f-ing scratch plate?!!! There are others from vintage Fenders all ridiculously priced.

When I see late seventies Les Pauls go for over €4k and now this I have to ask is the vintage guitar market populated by Ritalin junkies? Seriously though it's like sub prime mortgages. Will people pay anything for something cos it's old?

Doctor J · 14-02-2008 1:42pm

Yep, people assume that because it's old, it's somehow enchanted with magical mojo which will make you play better.

You see, humankind has progressed in every aspect over the last 60 years but for one persuit... making guitars. Like the alchemists of old, the secrets of the pioneers of the 50's have been lost in the sands of time and modern instruments, although frequently better made and enjoying the benefit of 60 years of design experience are clearly inferior to their more rudimentary ancestors

unclebill98 · 14-02-2008 6:58pm

Doctor J wrote: »

Yep, people assume that because it's old, it's somehow enchanted with magical mojo which will make you play better.

You see, humankind has progressed in every aspect over the last 60 years but for one persuit... making guitars. Like the alchemists of old, the secrets of the pioneers of the 50's have been lost in the sands of time and modern instruments, although frequently better made and enjoying the benefit of 60 years of design experience are clearly inferior to their more rudimentary ancestors

So true,

Old = old, not old = vintage....

eoin5 · 14-02-2008 7:06pm

Presumably you would need a pickguard expert to verify its exact background as I doubt they were all (if any) made with serial nos. The world that needs an expert vintage pickguard inspector is a fúcked up one.

darrenw5094 · 15-02-2008 1:13am

Check these bad boys out!!!!

http://stores.ebay.ie/music-outlet-shop

No more gas.....ever!

darrenw5094 · 15-02-2008 1:18am

i think http://cgi.ebay.ie/1969-GIBSON-LES-PAUL-CUSTOM_W0QQitemZ180049135926QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33040QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262"]this is not a good deal either.

deaddonkey · 15-02-2008 2:15am

if you have a 52 tele with a non original scratch plate that's worth 20k, and a 5k scratch plate brings its value to 40k, then it's well worth it.

if that isn't the situation you're in and you buy it, you gotta be a chump.

Karl Hungus · 15-02-2008 2:24am

Buy it and stick it on a Squier for sheer spite.

Jelly 292 · 15-02-2008 12:59pm

People spend 20,000 +for a 40 year old strat as an investment.
These things are only increasing in value at a stupid rate.
If I had the cash Id deffo take the plunge on one of these. It is something I know enough about to make sensible investment choices, unlike financial products and bricks and mortar.
It would be wrapped up and put in a safe and not played.
People dont lay down tens of thousands on guitars like these to play gigs with , generally.

Whether a 55 year old guitar is worth 100 g's is another story but you will make money on it in future. And there is something special about Pre CBS strats, modern strats just dont have that 'mojo' and that’s a fact. I have played a few nice modern strats but mostly they aint got that 'something'
Just my opinion. Its all highly subjective, hence the mad money.

Doctor J · 15-02-2008 1:46pm

Jelly 292 wrote: »

And there is something special about Pre CBS strats, modern strats just dont have that 'mojo' and that’s a fact. I have played a few nice modern strats but mostly they aint got that 'something'
Just my opinion.

Your opinion is fact?

The mojo is the result of people playing the bloody things over a period of time. Of course new strats don't have that but they will in time. It wasn't too long ago the majority of 70's Fenders were regarded as generally of a poor standard, now it costs two grand to get one. Are they any better now than they were 30 years ago? Of course not, but the fact that they're old means people are prepared to pay above the odds for what are generally sub-standard instruments. It's a crazy world I tells ya.

Thomas from Presence · 15-02-2008 3:53pm

I wouldn't be too pleased with Gibson's output in recent times and I understand why those old 50s and 60s ones are so desirable having been blessed with a play on various guitars of that vintage.

The only thing is what value does a guitar that can't be played really have?

I think any G&L would make any decrepid 60's Strat run screaming to the hills just like a decent MIJ Les Paul might do to one of Gibson's poorly made products.

Doctor J · 15-02-2008 4:02pm

Well this is the thing. Leo Fender didn't look kindly on the early Fenders and considered the latter instruments the best he ever designed. Fender weren't using super tonewoods, they were using maple because it was cheap. The guys who made the early Fenders weren't highly skilled and experienced luthiers, not by a long, long way. From the perspective of the guy who designed them, Musicman were an improvement on Fender and G&L were an improvement on Musicman.

And Bacchus are an improvement on them all

Edit -> what you will get is people saying is the vintage guitars are more resonant and there is a shred of truth in this, but it doesn't involve pixies or enchantments of any kind, sorry. The Nitro finish used back in the 50's and early 60's is generally thinner and allows more resonance from the wood. However, it is very easy to get Nitro finished guitars today, just not from Fender or Gibson.

Alanstrainor · 15-02-2008 4:25pm

Doctor J wrote: »

what you will get is people saying is the vintage guitars are more resonant and there is a shred of truth in this, but it doesn't involve pixies or enchantments of any kind, sorry. The Nitro finish used back in the 50's and early 60's is generally thinner and allows more resonance from the wood. However, it is very easy to get Nitro finished guitars today, just not from Fender or Gibson.

The highway 1's have a thin nitro finish dont they? I completely agree with the posts in this thread, although there is something that would draw me to a vintage strat. Not worth the cash, a Bacchus strat is on my shopping list for my next guitar.

feylya · 15-02-2008 4:38pm

Doctor J wrote: »

And Bacchus are an improvement on them all

Shill!

eoin5 · 15-02-2008 7:22pm

Reissues are grand, theyre better value and often are better instruments than the originals but if you have the cash the for something like an original 60s P bass the likes of Sadowsky make fantastic instruments that look the same and sound waaaay better than the original instrument even in its hayday.

Doctor J · 15-02-2008 10:12pm

That's entirely subjective. Sadowskys have a great tone, but the sound of an old school P with flats is a thing of beauty and Sadowskys don't have that tone. Some folks will find the old school tone more to their tastes than a modern tone, but I'd gamble on Sadowsky's build quality over an old or even a new Fender.

sei046 · 15-02-2008 10:57pm

Any musicman guitars i have played smoke ANY fenders, no matter what year i have ever played. Its just a different league. We didnt forget how to make guitars. We just started to become more profitable. So when a company like musicman doesnt bother with the Uber cheap thing the standard is always good. In thirty or forty years they will be much more worthy of all of the attention the guitars at the minute are getting

Doctor J · 15-02-2008 11:02pm

feylya wrote: »

Shill!

Ah I can't help it. That bleedin P is killing me!

eoin5 · 15-02-2008 11:39pm

Doctor J wrote: »

That's entirely subjective. Sadowskys have a great tone, but the sound of an old school P with flats is a thing of beauty and Sadowskys don't have that tone. Some folks will find the old school tone more to their tastes than a modern tone, but I'd gamble on Sadowsky's build quality over an old or even a new Fender.

I agree that its subjective but if you want to sound like James Jamerson you have little choice but to get a precision bass with uber heavy flatwounds played to death and set the action miles high. Its a thing of beauty but its really too expensive for one really nice retro sound (thats not to say that if I had the money in the morning I wouldnt go and buy both

).

Doctor J · 16-02-2008 8:39am

Don't believe the sheep on Talkbass, a P with flats is far from restricted to one retro sound

eoin5 · 17-02-2008 12:01pm

Doctor J wrote: »

Don't believe the sheep on Talkbass, a P with flats is far from restricted to one retro sound

Youve got me there, people say the same about the rickys but because I've played one for a while I know you can get loads of different sounds from them.

Doctor J · 17-02-2008 2:28pm

Yep, one of the problems with talkbass is that it's cultivating a generation of players who think they need different pieces of gear to get differing tones and specific models to get the tone of their idols. A lot of people keep asking "how do I get the tone of..." whoever and you'll get people arguing about the specifics of every teeny piece of gear and overlooking the range of tones you can get out of how you play the thing. Listen to the Stranglers and then some Jamerson. Now do you think a P is a one trick pony?

The best example of how much an influence how you play is that Jaco dvd. We all know the Jaco tone, the bass of doom and his Acoustic amps, etc. He plays a Jazz with a fretted maple P neck on that dvd. He sounds like Jaco. Then he plays the other dude's custom fretless and still sounds like Jaco. His sound was how he played, not what he played.

Since I got the Bacchus P I've been rediscovering the joys of getting the most out of a single pickup, volume and tone. You've really got to work the ****er but there are a whole range of sounds in there. It's a pretty versatile bass tbh

I used to have a Ric 4003 and it most certainly was not a one trick pony either. I absolutely loved the sounds I could get out of it. I just couldn't adapt to having a big bruise up my forearm from the lack of countours after every gig.

eoin5 · 17-02-2008 3:29pm

Doctor J wrote: »

I used to have a Ric 4003 and it most certainly was not a one trick pony either. I absolutely loved the sounds I could get out of it. I just couldn't adapt to having a big bruise up my forearm from the lack of countours after every gig.

Yea its like playing a big jigsaw piece

Doctor J · 17-02-2008 3:30pm

That's one way of putting it

Squirrel · 18-02-2008 8:27pm

That's spending €4.5K on an object designed to be scratched. I don't see the point, a guitar was made to be played so it should be played, so a new scratchplate should be just as good to put onto a vintage guitar unless it's been kept as a collectable. I don't see the point in buying something to be a collectable, it's the same with cars for me, buying something to keep it in storage to sell on is keeping the item, be it guitar, bass etc. away from people who would be using it. Pretty simplistic view but at the end of the day they are just collections of materials.

Dord · 18-02-2008 8:59pm

Doctor J wrote: »

Yep, one of the problems with talkbass is that it's cultivating a generation of players who think they need different pieces of gear to get differing tones and specific models to get the tone of their idols. A lot of people keep asking "how do I get the tone of..." whoever and you'll get people arguing about the specifics of every teeny piece of gear and overlooking the range of tones you can get out of how you play the thing. Listen to the Stranglers and then some Jamerson. Now do you think a P is a one trick pony?

The best example of how much an influence how you play is that Jaco dvd. We all know the Jaco tone, the bass of doom and his Acoustic amps, etc. He plays a Jazz with a fretted maple P neck on that dvd. He sounds like Jaco. Then he plays the other dude's custom fretless and still sounds like Jaco. His sound was how he played, not what he played.

Since I got the Bacchus P I've been rediscovering the joys of getting the most out of a single pickup, volume and tone. You've really got to work the ****er but there are a whole range of sounds in there. It's a pretty versatile bass tbh

I used to have a Ric 4003 and it most certainly was not a one trick pony either. I absolutely loved the sounds I could get out of it. I just couldn't adapt to having a big bruise up my forearm from the lack of countours after every gig.

I agree about TalkBass, I post over there but not too often. Mostly just browsing and looking at the nice pictures.

Too much of an emphasis on specific gear and also an obsession with "coffee-table basses".

The Precision is certainly not a one trick poney! I have one and it can sure do a lot of different sounds if you change your playing technique. The same with any bass really. I was playing one of my Aria's the other night messing around, I started playing over the neck and was getting a cool 60's r n' b type sound. Got a fair few ideas and inspiration from that!

Back on topic, €4.5K for a scratch plate is ludicrous! Anyone who pays that a fool.

BTW, did you read the topic on TalkBass about how Clay dots sound better than any other type of inlay??? :eek::eek::eek:

*shakes head in disbelief*

Kaiser_Sma · 25-02-2008 5:22pm

Hey guys i need the tonal quality of a 50's scratch plate but i can only spend 3k, what should i do?

Squirrel · 25-02-2008 9:12pm

Kaiser_Sma wrote: »

Hey guys i need the tonal quality of a 50's scratch plate but i can only spend 3k, what should i do?

For that I'm sure someone has one that's snapped clean in two somehow but since it's authentic 50's 3k would in fact be a steal :rolleyes:

Doctor J · 26-02-2008 8:26am

Kaiser_Sma wrote: »

Hey guys i need the tonal quality of a 50's scratch plate but i can only spend 3k, what should i do?

You should look for magic pixie dust, maybe some magic beans too... sprinkle them on your tonally deficient 2000's scratchplate.

Actually, you'll probably need a goat skull and a black candle too

Kaiser_Sma · 26-02-2008 2:19pm

Thanks, oh also i scratched the 'F' off of the Fender logo on my vintage '51 stratocaster. Now it sounds terrible. Where can i get a replacment?

The €4.5k scratchplate

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