Paul McCartney's Lexus Hybrid

Balfa · 15-05-2008 02:03PM #1

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iqeFEaBVfQJdLMu9YbQFlv1sJC1gD90LGFIG1

Someone thought it would be a good idea to send Paul McCartney his new Lexus LS600 hybrid by plane, from Japan.

Which supposedly emits the same carbon dioxide as "driving the car 300 times around the world".

So much for the greenness of hybrids

Tabnabs · 15-05-2008 02:12PM

Balfa wrote: »

So much for the greenness of hybrids

You do realise that the car itself emitted zero carbon on the journey over and that either by air (a hugely expensive undertaking) or by sea (and we're not talking about a sailing ship here) it has to be transported by a carbon belching metal box...

Mickk · 15-05-2008 02:25PM

With claimed mpg of 29mpg and real world trials showing around 20mpg who is he kidding? I hate that if you want a nice big car just get one, dont try and claim you are doing your bit with a gas guzzling hybrid...

Mickk · 15-05-2008 02:28PM

Dyflin wrote: »

You do realise that the car itself emitted zero carbon on the journey over and that either by air (a hugely expensive undertaking) or by sea (and we're not talking about a sailing ship here) it has to be transported by a carbon belching metal box...

Its a case of the lesser of two evils, i imagine a plane or a ship would emit about the same amount of carbon on a trip, a plane could carry 2 container loads, a ship over 200...

E92 · 15-05-2008 02:32PM

Auto Express did a test of one of these against an Audi A8 4.2 TDI(now both are supposed to be as economical in the EU tests) and they found that the Lexus did 19 mpg while the A8 did 29 mpg.

We all know that hybrids are a marketing gimmick and never match the EU test figures. I posted before about the 520d vs a Prius in a test by the Sunday Times where 80% of the time was spent in conditions that would clearly favour the hybrid Toyota and the BMW STILL won, even though the 520d is 10 mpg less economical in the EU mpg test.

If you want to cut your carbon footprint buy a diesel, if you care about other peoples' health then stick with a non hybrid petrol and if you believe in gimmicks then buy a hybrid.

Acutally Auto Express did a test recently, it featured the Civic IMA, the GS450h, Prius, MINI Clubman Cooper D, Polo Bluemotion, Ibiza Ecomotive, Focus ECOnetic and the Fabia Greenline. 3 hybrids vs 5 diesels. And the worst 3 cars were hybrids. The Prius officially beats the MINI Clubman for CO2 by 5 g/km yet in the real world Auto Express found the MINI with BMWs EfficientDynamics system to pollute 24 g/km LESS CO2 and it also made a mockey of the supposed fuel economy of the Prius, doing 57 mpg rather than 41.5 mpg, making the MINI 38% more economical. Indeed all the other diesels beat the Prius too, in some cases by quite a margin.

Anan1 · 15-05-2008 02:43PM

E92 wrote: »

if you care about other peoples' health then stick with a non hybrid petrol.

Ah come on now, Ted.

VH · 15-05-2008 02:50PM

The purpose of a hybrid luxo barge is to look opulent and green, instead of just opulent. And I don't really blame him. If I had his money I'd do the same. A dirty noisy diesel is not an option.

@E92, from what I've read on the web there are plenty of people who get decent economy from hybrids. The ones who don't are more vocal. Since the cars are all made the same, I can only assume those that don't get good economy have bad driving habits.

E92 · 15-05-2008 02:56PM

VH wrote: »

The purpose of a hybrid luxo barge is to look opulent and green, instead of just opulent. And I don't really blame him. If I had his money I'd do the same. A dirty noisy diesel is not an option.

A BMW 530i is not a hybrid and yet it does 37.7 mpg, which is better than the Lexus' 35.8 mpg. Now that really is a green executive car, and as the MINI's EfficientDynamics system shows in the test i linked above, it is also much more likely to deliver on it's promises.

Eoin · 15-05-2008 02:59PM

VH wrote: »

The purpose of a hybrid luxo barge is to look opulent and green, instead of just opulent. And I don't really blame him. If I had his money I'd do the same. A dirty noisy diesel is not an option.

And if you drive around London, you are exempt from the congestion charge, while someone in a much more fuel efficient (but non-hybrid) car isn't.

Tipsy Mac · 15-05-2008 03:06PM

Doesn't say what other cargo was in the plane, perhaps there was room for it and they loaded it on rather than be criticised for flying a plane half empty.

A normal sized car ship would be able to carry about 5000 of them from Japan but that would take a couple of weeks.

VH · 15-05-2008 03:43PM

E92 wrote: »

A BMW 530i is not a hybrid and yet it does 37.7 mpg, which is better than the Lexus' 35.8 mpg. Now that really is a green executive car, and as the MINI's EfficientDynamics system shows in the test i linked above, it is also much more likely to deliver on it's promises.

Not the same class of cars at all. Could you see Sir Paul being driven around in a Mini or a 5-series? If he wanted an opulent and "green" BMW he'd be like Jay Leno and have a BMW Hydrogen-7, which does what... 5mpg?

E92 · 15-05-2008 04:00PM

VH wrote: »

Not the same class of cars at all. Could you see Sir Paul being driven around in a Mini or a 5-series? If he wanted an opulent and "green" BMW he'd be like Jay Leno and have a BMW Hydrogen-7, which does what... 5mpg?

The Hydrogen 7 may do 5 mpg(when running on hydrogen), but it has no pollution unless you count water vapour as pollution. Of course when it runs on petrol it does considerably more mpg, but then you're back to polluting petrol.

When I said that the 530i is more economical than a Lexus hybrid, I was actually comparing it to the smaller GS hybrid, not the LS600h, so my apologies for that cause I know I didn't say what Lexus it was up against earlier:o.

Anyway, the Lexus LS600h is STILL not the greenest car in it's class, the 730Ld(long wheelbase version) does 212 g/km(the standard one does 210 g/km), while the greenest of all is the Audi A8 2.8 FSI which is clearly in front and no hybrid or diesel technology to help and it manages 199 g/km, while the Lexus pollutes 219 g/km.

Next year's 7 series will have EfficientDynamics as standard which will bring about serious CO2 improvements if the 1,3,5 and 6 series are anything to go by and no doubt will provide BMW with more than 2 models that beat the LS600h for CO2, and again, EfficientDynamics is not hybrid technology.

VH · 15-05-2008 04:09PM

E92 wrote: »

The Hydrogen 7 may do 5 mpg(when running on hydrogen), but it has no pollution unless you count water vapour as pollution. Of course when it runs on petrol it does considerably more mpg, but then you're back to polluting petrol.

Point is Hydrogen-7 doesn't have any green credentials.

E92 wrote:

Anyway, the Lexus LS600h is STILL not the greenest car in it's class

Opulence doesn't do diesel, and dare I say it the A8 has a small engine (and a bit of an image problem like the 7 series) and again opulence doesn't do small engines. The LS600h would be more comparable to a S600. No doubt if there was a hybrid S600 (or big Bentley etc) there'd be a lot less 600h's sold.

galwaytt · 15-05-2008 04:15PM

VH wrote: »

........dare I say it the A8 has a small engine ........

Never thought I'd see anyone say a 4.2 was a small engine. How Times Have Changed :pac: :pac: :pac:

Robertr · 15-05-2008 04:45PM

Am I missing something....since when did MPG equate to how green a car is.

Is it not the emissions that count?

Lord Nikon · 15-05-2008 04:48PM

E92 wrote: »

A BMW 530i is not a hybrid and yet it does 37.7 mpg, which is better than the Lexus' 35.8 mpg.

Correction...according to bmw.com website, Combined fuel consumption: 7.3 to 8.2 L/100 km...34.4 to 38.6mpg

Eoin · 15-05-2008 04:49PM

Robertr wrote: »

Am I missing something....since when did MPG equate to how green a car is.

Is it not the emissions that count?

Are emissions not (at least partly) measured per the amount of fuel used?

Here's a quote from breakingnews.ie:

A spokesperson for Swissport, which handled the transportation of the car, says: "We couldn't believe the hypocrisy of flying an environmentally friendly car in from Japan. Everyone was shocked."

Speaking of hypocrisy...

VH · 15-05-2008 04:51PM

galwaytt wrote: »

Never thought I'd see anyone say a 4.2 was a small engine. How Times Have Changed :pac: :pac: :pac:

He said 2.8. For true opulence a 6.0 or more (real or perceived) is required.

Anan1 · 15-05-2008 05:10PM

Robertr wrote: »

Am I missing something....since when did MPG equate to how green a car is.

Is it not the emissions that count?

CO2 is a by-product of burning fuel.

colm_mcm · 15-05-2008 05:28PM

Celebrities and politicians fly in private jets all the time. You'd swear he had personally chopped down a rainforest for the craic or something. Some perspective is needed here.

Anan1 · 15-05-2008 05:46PM

colm_mcm wrote: »

Celebrities and politicians fly in private jets all the time. You'd swear he had personally chopped down a rainforest for the craic or something. Some perspective is needed here.

I think the point is the irony. If he'd had an S600 flown over it wouldn't have been half as good a story.

colm_mcm · 15-05-2008 05:52PM

He didn't fly it over though. Lexus did.

unkel · 15-05-2008 06:02PM

He keeps proving he's a delusional old fool

Anan1 · 15-05-2008 06:21PM

colm_mcm wrote: »

He didn't fly it over though. Lexus did.

Come on now Colm, I know you understand what i'm saying.;)

E92 · 15-05-2008 06:31PM

VH wrote: »

Point is Hydrogen-7 doesn't have any green credentials.

I'm starting to think you being a troll, I'll stick with reality and facts thank you very much.

VH wrote: »

Opulence doesn't do diesel

Rolls Royce disagree, the forthcoming baby Rolls will feature diesel power as an option. How much more opulent can you get than a Rolls Royce? In case you haven't noticed, the best selling versions of the A8, S-class and 7 series and even the Jag XJ are diesel. Audi even do a V8 diesel too(and Merc and BMW for LHD markets only).

VH wrote: »

dare I say it the A8 has a small engine (and a bit of an image problem like the 7 series) and again opulence doesn't do small engines. The LS600h would be more comparable to a S600. No doubt if there was a hybrid S600 (or big Bentley etc) there'd be a lot less 600h's sold.

Now I know you are trolling. The 600hL is only popular with celebrities who want to be seen to be green. I've seen the grand total of 1.

Balfa · 15-05-2008 06:56PM

Okay, Paul McCartney is a big rich famous dude, so he needs a limo. Lexus sponsored his gigs, so they're giving him a free one. Lexus don't do diesel limos, so he figures hybrid is the next best bet.

I don't see how we can fault McCartney here, unless we're complaining about him wanting a limo in the first place, instead of a diesel polo. Which is, I'm sure, what we'd all do if we were a big rich famous dude.

Anyway, now he's angry with Lexus:
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/entertainment/story.asp?j=255680724&p=z5568y43x

Anan1 · 15-05-2008 07:11PM

Does anyone else think this is a bit odd? A spokesperson for Swissport, which handled the transportation of the car, says: "We couldn't believe the hypocrisy of flying an environmentally friendly car in from Japan. Everyone was shocked."

bazz26 · 15-05-2008 07:58PM

Slow news day?

colm_mcm · 15-05-2008 09:32PM

E92 wrote: »

Now I know you are trolling. The 600hL is only popular with celebrities who want to be seen to be green. I've seen the grand total of 1.

I've seen a few. Ben Dunne has one I think!

pburns · 16-05-2008 08:21AM

E92 wrote: »

The 600hL is only popular with celebrities who want to be seen to be green.

Toyota/Lexus have done a great marketing job in convincing everyone from middle class beardies, to fashionistas, to celebrity zillionaires that their cars are the MOST environmently friendly. I'm sure many are more concerned about the IMAGE of being seen to be green...

It's the same as the myth perpetrated that VWs are reliable:)

RedorDead · 16-05-2008 08:51AM

E92 wrote: »

Acutally Auto Express did a test recently, it featured the Civic IMA, the GS450h, Prius, MINI Clubman Cooper D, Polo Bluemotion, Ibiza Ecomotive, Focus ECOnetic and the Fabia Greenline. 3 hybrids vs 5 diesels. And the worst 3 cars were hybrids. The Prius officially beats the MINI Clubman for CO2 by 5 g/km yet in the real world Auto Express found the MINI with BMWs EfficientDynamics system to pollute 24 g/km LESS CO2 and it also made a mockey of the supposed fuel economy of the Prius, doing 57 mpg rather than 41.5 mpg, making the MINI 38% more economical. Indeed all the other diesels beat the Prius too, in some cases by quite a margin.

While I agree with the point that hybrids are a bit of a false dawn with fuel consumption and co2 etc etc - its a bit unfair to include a GS450H against the likes of a Polo and Mini. It must weigh nearly double what these cars weigh.

VH · 16-05-2008 09:45AM

E92 wrote: »

I'm starting to think you being a troll, I'll stick with reality and facts thank you very much.

16 MPG on petrol aint green. Neither is burning hydrogen and getting 5 MPG out it when a hydrogen fuel cell powered car can get 80 MPG. They're the facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_7

E92 wrote: »

Rolls Royce disagree, the forthcoming baby Rolls will feature diesel power as an option.

Rolls Royce have never sold a diesel. That's fact. They will offer a diesel soon, but fact remains they have never sold a single one.

E92 wrote:

the best selling versions of the A8, S-class and 7 series and even the Jag XJ are diesel. Audi even do a V8 diesel too(and Merc and BMW for LHD markets only).

By people who have some concern about MPG. Do you think Sir Paul et al care about MPG? If the car did 1 MPG they could still afford to keep 10 of them on the road.

E92 wrote:

Now I know you are trolling. The 600hL is only popular with celebrities who want to be seen to be green. I've seen the grand total of 1.

Broken record. Your 2nd statement is correct. I've seen several (non L), none owned by celebs, and have had the pleasure of being a passenger in one. Some car.

E92 · 16-05-2008 12:14PM

VH wrote: »

16 MPG on petrol aint green. Neither is burning hydrogen and getting 5 MPG out it when a hydrogen fuel cell powered car can get 80 MPG. They're the facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_7

Eh the only "pollution" from hydrogen is water vapour(which obviously isn't pollution at all), therefore whether it does 1 or 100 mpg on hydrogen is irrelevant in terms of it's impact on the environment. All it means is that you'll have to refill it more often!

RedorDead wrote: »

While I agree with the point that hybrids are a bit of a false dawn with fuel consumption and co2 etc etc - its a bit unfair to include a GS450H against the likes of a Polo and Mini. It must weigh nearly double what these cars weigh.

Indeed it is grossly unfair to compare an executive saloon against superminis/small cars(but then again this is the magazine that is the motoring equivalent of the Oirish Sun or any of those tabloid papers so should we be surprised), but we know from Auto Express' test on the A8 4.2 TDI vs the LS600h(both of which have similar mpg ratings in the official EU tests and where they found the A8 to do 29 mpg and the Lexus did 19 mpg) that had they put the Lexus GS450h up against rival cars like say a V6 TDI A6 or a 535d etc that those cars would wipe the floor economy wise(indeed the 530i with its 3.0 petrol engine is already more economical than the GS hybrid in the official EU tests, never mind the diesel one).

VH · 16-05-2008 12:40PM

E92 wrote: »

Eh the only "pollution" from hydrogen is water vapour(which obviously isn't pollution at all), therefore whether it does 1 or 100 mpg on hydrogen is irrelevant in terms of it's impact on the environment. All it means is that you'll have to refill it more often!

The production of hydrogen has massive environmental impact as most of it is produced from burning coal.

Ironically the Hydrogen 7 is probably less damaging at 16 MPG on petrol than it is at 5 MPG indirectly on coal.

Paul McCartney's Lexus Hybrid

Comments