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Are high prices the primary reason for the pub trade being down?

  • 29-05-2008 09:40AM
    #1
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭


    Following on from this thread(http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055303101), do you think that high prices are the primary reason for the lack of trade that the pubs get?

    If you think it's primarily the smoking ban, random breadth-testing or some other reason(please state), vote no.

    Of course the pubs themselves never say it's high prices so lets see what boardsies say.

    Are high prices the reaosn for fall off in the pub trade? 187 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    80% 151 votes
    Too p1ssed to decide
    19% 36 votes


«134

Comments

  • #2
    c - 13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭c - 13


    I think its prices alright. I mean lets say you drink bottles of miller for example, these can be bought in an off license for about E1 per bottle or less. You go to a bar and you'll pay roughly E5 for the same item.

    I understand wages, service, lighting, heat etc have to be factored on but still. Thats quite a difference.

    I go to the pub occasionally, but i'm staying at home much more often than not this weather with some beers and friends, costs a damn siight less and theres no queuing at bar etc.


  • #3
    BobTheBeat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭BobTheBeat


    I would say a variety of things are contributary. Some things that people mightnt have considered previously include:-

    : Somewhat 'ageing' population simply moving on from the pub centric social scene.
    : Influence of the healthy lifestyle ideals people have (possible irony here). For instance, people believing a night on the beer is no longer an option, so they stay at home a drink two bottles of wine!
    : Older and middle aged people genuinely being afraid to go to town at night. I think the younger generation have become somewhat desensitized to the goings on after turfing out time, the kind of things that the older generation do not understand or are appalled at.
    : People just being good old fashioned 'tight' with their money. Booze is cheaper in the offy. Cheap booze plus friends at home >> expensive night out in a fairly restricted social scene. By restricted I mean, not many places to go if your only interested in a relaxed night out.

    Of course, Im open for criticism on all of the above. I do feel that these are the smaller issues on people's minds, but nonetheless are contributory.


  • #4
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    I think the smoking ban has brought as many people back to the pubs as have left. I'd definitely go with a mix of high prices and, especially in rural areas, random testing.


  • #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Was discussing this with my belgian housemate and he tells me that on the continent some pubs charge in the region of €8 for a pint. So with regards to that, it doesn't seem that bad here.

    Its just the changing culture. We're moving slowly away from the pub-scene and focusing more on the house parties.
    stovelid wrote: »
    I think the smoking ban has brought as many people back to the pubs as have left.

    I'd definitely go with a mix of high prices and, especially in rural areas, random testing.

    I have to agree with the smoking ban. Had they not brought it in, I would have stopped going near a pub years ago. Also, does anyone have any statistics on whether drink-driving fatalities have decreased since random testing was introduced?


  • #6
    Sherifu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Combination of breath testing and prices.


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  • #7
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Yeh, forgot to mention the obvious like the offy being alot cheaper and drinking at home especially for the younger types.

    Its just the publicans are running yet another radio ad campaign and are targetting this aspect but not once have you heard anything about prices.


  • #8
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    It isn’t high prices and complaining about high prices isn’t new.
    I remember moaning when they made cider more expensive than larger about 6 years ago.
    10 years ago people were complaining about high prices

    I’ll try to get a link but a government minister once said that when the price of a pint passed IR£1, then the government should resign. Might have been Jack Lynch?? There is a classic quote

    The Dublin posters will post their outrage at €6 pints but rural pubs charge less than that.
    And it’s rural pubs that are closing down, the city centre pubs in main cities are doing ok

    I don’t think it’s the smoking ban.
    Without a doubt the drink driving crackdown has savaged trade in rural pubs.
    And drink in an off-licence has never been cheaper so that's the price factor I suppose

    Remember folks, don’t just this of this from a Dublin perspective, it's rural pubs that are suffering more.
    But then having villages with 3-4 pubs wasn't going to last forever


  • #9
    reregholdsworth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 156 ✭✭reregholdsworth


    i'd go with a fair mixture of the above

    For me, I am reluctant to spend loads of money at the pub in order to get a hangover so that I can't do anything else with the rest of my weekend.

    although the pub is still an important part of my life, every other weekend or so.

    must be getting old.


  • #10
    kaimera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭kaimera


    testing and prices to an extent.

    prices havent stopped me up in DUB :/


  • #11
    Steve_o
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Steve_o


    I think the prices play a big part, also the cost of taxis, and to a lesser extent (imo) the smoking ban.


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  • #12
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Prices are a big factor I reckon. The growth in off licences added in to that. I do think the smoking ban had an effect. It was quite obvious at first, but now we're so used to it it's subtle. I remember reading the stats on pubs closing down in the aftermath of the smoking ban and it certainly had an effect, both rural and urban. The first run of pub closures happened in the first years after the ban. The dynamic of going out has changed I've noticed. Now people will get a few tinnies in then head out much later. The testing has had an effect in rural areas that's for sure.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #13
    nc6000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭nc6000


    c - 13 wrote: »
    I think its prices alright. I mean lets say you drink bottles of miller for example, these can be bought in an off license for about E1 per bottle or less. You go to a bar and you'll pay roughly E5 for the same item.

    I understand wages, service, lighting, heat etc have to be factored on but still. Thats quite a difference.

    I go to the pub occasionally, but i'm staying at home much more often than not this weather with some beers and friends, costs a damn siight less and theres no queuing at bar etc.

    Apparently many pubs are buying bottles of beer at knockdown prices in off licenses and supermarkets and then selling them on in their pubs at normal price. :mad:

    No wonder people are staying at home. When I was out last week I was being charged €4.40 for a Guinness which wasn't as good as a can of draught. I sat there thinking it was waste of money. Much better value to have people around or go to someone elses house.


  • #14
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    The driving issue is probably just an issue for people living in rural areas I imagine.

    I'd say it is price. There's another thread here complaining about being forced to buy bottled water in some pub for €3.50 or something. Pretty much every pub in Dublin charges over the odds for everything. Is it any wonder people turn their backs on pubs given a reason. That coupled with the smoking ban.


  • #15
    JangoFett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭JangoFett


    I don't really think the pub culture is dying as has been reported

    Portlaoise and Mountrath have some really great pubs and never have problems gettin punters in. The only pubs that DO have problems gettin people is cuz of the rough crowd drinking there or the owners is a dick or the owners doesn't allow anyone but rich solicitors in there....there's a place like that in Portlaoise


  • #16
    S.I.R
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭S.I.R


    the thing with living in dublin is , cheap crappy pints are 2.50-3.50 , a good drinkable pint is 4, then there petrol and diesel which is daylight robbery and theres high un-employment...

    Goodbye celtic tiger.... :mad:


  • #17
    The Artist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭The Artist


    in my area theres a about 9 or 10 give or take closed down which is sad news as the pubilicans have worked all the years to make ends meet.
    As i met a few of the publicans around and asked why the closure.?
    1.smoking ban has driven away the customers and lost a lot of buisness/
    2. the changes of drink drive limits.
    3.to much competion with the off linceces.
    4.taxes on the barrels
    5.the minimum wage laws.
    As well as that their beer gardens are not allowed as im sure they banned that too?
    The publicans are sick and tired of the goverment.


  • #18
    Keano
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    There is nothing more I enjoy than a nice pint down my local but I go out once a month if even that.

    To me beer has become a luxury item that I can do without.


  • #19
    kevmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭kevmy


    Well being from a rural area and living in Galway I kinda see both sides of the coin. The type of rural places that are closing down are the kinda places that never done a good trade. They are the ones in the middle of nowhere with catered solely for pensioners, were run by pensioners, with a shed out the back for a jacks. The random testing hit these places hard but so did the fact that the younger generation wouldn't go near them without major renovations, which the elderly proprietor didn't have the energy for so he just closed.

    In rural towns not that many pubs have closed and also the pub is still the centre in small rural towns as offies aren't prevalent and it's harder to round up a crew for a house party.

    Demographics also play a part the Celtic Tiger coincided with the baby boom kids reaching their late teens/ 20's. Now both are winding down and the baby boomers are settling into houses not pubs.

    Rising prices affect closing down of pubs in that years ago you could plod along with a few regulars and just youself behind the bar. With rising prices everywhere you can make more money by selling up/ changing jobs the continuing to run a pub.


  • #20
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I think the problem is a pub isn't a public house anymore. I remember when we where kids we spent loads of time in the pub, they always had arcade machines or a pool table or something for the kiddies to play. Now it's just an uncomfortable building to get drunk in. The only people that can take advantage of a pub these days are drinkers.

    Publicans aren't trying to get business in, they're doing nothing new and that's why their failing to bring in customers that can't afford to be drunk anymore. People can't have a pint after work and drive home anymore, so give them some other reason to come in.


  • #21
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    So from the good replies..

    Rural - breadth testing, the young crowd wont goto rundown pubs where owner has not enough of dosh to renovate(same applies to urban), prices not really as issue for rural?

    Urban - Prices, Offy is better value and related cost of living to have a night out, noisy pub issue as well where you can't have a conversation and pigheaded bouncers(sorry pighead :D)


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  • #22
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    I reckon the high prices and the smoking ban do have an effect. But another thing to take into consideration is the sheer variety of things to do in the evenings nowadays compared with 15 years ago. Back then it was an option of the pub or cinema for a night out.

    Now we have ppl going to their local gym, taking all sorts of night courses, dance classes, etc. We've also had an explosion of restaurants with ethnic cuisine that also compete with pubs for social spending. These things just weren't available back then but now pubs have way more competitors for peoples social time.


  • #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KaG1888 wrote: »
    I was discussing this the other day while driving down to Shannon. We went through a load of towns between 1-5pm & none of the pubs were open. Back as close as 5 years ago this wouldnt be the case and you'd have people in there from as early as 11 in the morning. It comes down to alot of things I think. The smoking ban, much stricter enforcement on drink driving(rightly so) & as RB pointed out , the rip of publicans themselves! Going from the mid nineties backwards the people you see on the street binging with cans in Dublin & other towns/cities would be mostly in the pub because they could afford it!

    Even though the dying of this culture is somehow sad it is for the good of the country in the long run.

    Heres a quick symbol that this culture has brought us http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i84/Kag1888/LOL-1.jpg :D



    As I said in the other thread yes! Ol lads now buy cans of Guinness and bring them back to their house instead of being those lads that were practically part of the furniture in pubs. Much cheaper and they can smoke their pipe in peace ! :)


  • #24
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    gurramok wrote: »
    So from the good replies..

    Rural - breadth testing, the young crowd wont goto rundown pubs where owner has not enough of dosh to renovate(same applies to urban), prices not really as issue for rural?

    Urban - Prices, Offy is better value and related cost of living to have a night out, noisy pub issue as well where you can't have a conversation and pigheaded bouncers(sorry pighead :D)

    +1
    I reckon this sums it up pretty well.
    There are different issues affecting rural and urban pubs


  • #25
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    i live in letterkenny and used to live across from a pub, dead handy but never went there took the 10 minute walk to Tesco and bought in the off licence there, just couldn't afford drinking in a pub for any length of time.

    I know of a few places that will remain nameless as i dunno on the legality of this but they sold cans and bottles from the off licence (which they owned) in the pub which knocked a fair bit off the prices.


  • #26
    Phototoxin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Phototoxin


    E2.20 - E2.60 for a CAN of coke in a pup. why bother teetotaling ?


  • #27
    danniemcq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    liver will thank you the next morning


  • #28
    Radharc na Sleibhte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭Radharc na Sleibhte


    No, staying in is the new going out. :p


  • #29
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Was in a pub i used to frequent and i noticed a bottle of Larios Gin in the Dublin Dry Gin optic.I know the stuff from being in spain where its about 4.50 a bottle in off-licences.Its also undrinkable muck that you wouldnt use to clean out a cage.I asked the barman was it on special or something and he said "no,this is what we carry".What he meant was they're getting it for a fraction of the cost of decent gin and selling it as the real deal.Pure ****ing greed,no quality concerns whatsoever,as long as they can minimise the overheads and ramp the profits up and up.That particular pub was (is) well-known for flat pints that have been known to make people sick,christ knows where they get the beer fromm if they're willing to sell substandard spirits.


  • #30
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Should report those **** Degsy.


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  • #31
    Vinegar Hill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Vinegar Hill


    Combination of smoking ban and prices I'd say


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