EU to give private citizens data to the US

SimpleSam06 · 29-06-2008 06:39AM #1

Yes indeed, its a brave new world, or at least it better be...

WASHINGTON — The United States and the European Union are nearing completion of an agreement allowing law enforcement and security agencies to obtain private information — like credit card transactions, travel histories and Internet browsing habits — about people on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean.

The potential agreement, as outlined in an internal report obtained by The New York Times, would represent a diplomatic breakthrough for American counterterrorism officials, who have clashed with the European Union over demands for personal data. Europe generally has more stringent laws restricting how governments and businesses can collect and transfer such information.

Negotiators, who have been meeting since February 2007, have largely agreed on draft language for 12 major issues central to a “binding international agreement,” the report said. The pact would make clear that it is lawful for European governments and companies to transfer personal information to the United States, and vice versa.

Thanks eyoo! We wouldn't want the dastardly terrists to win now, would we... :rolleyes:

kelle · 29-06-2008 07:07AM

How on earth can they find out our Internet browsing habits??? I'm sure terrorists will use internet cafes to make their searches. In fact I'm getting scared as I write this....

c - 13 · 29-06-2008 07:14AM

Funnily enough I started reading 1984 this morning ...

Overheal · 29-06-2008 07:15AM

kelle wrote: »

How on earth can they find out our Internet browsing habits?

its terribly easy for a server to keep logs of the traffic going in and out of your IP address.

gixerfixer · 29-06-2008 08:25AM

I have a bomb........

Oh sh*te.Who's that at the door.:pac:

Sherifu · 29-06-2008 08:43AM

Time to start using Tor.

4Xcut · 29-06-2008 10:19AM

c - 13 wrote: »

Funnily enough I started reading 1984 this morning ...

Great book - read it while working as a polling clerk for the referundum(sp?):D

On Topic: FFS, this is getting a bit rediculus now. Granted, there is a necessity to have a good international police network. And granted, terrorism is an important issue that needs to be addressed. But there is a limit. This is getting all a little bit too big brother for my liking.

kowloon · 29-06-2008 11:01AM

Irish govt. already reserve the right to pull your surfing details.
I believe they bent over for the US govt. already and gave them access to details in relation to terror suspects and the rights to arrest Irish citizens off Irish soil for crimes committed in the states regardless of whether they're crimes here or not. So this doesn't really affect us as our politicians are already doing what they're told.

Black Swan · 29-06-2008 11:04AM

gixerfixer wrote: »

Oh sh*te.Who's that at the door.:pac:

NSA (No Such Agency):pac::eek:

SimpleSam06 · 29-06-2008 11:12AM

kowloon wrote: »

So this doesn't really affect us as our politicians are already doing what they're told.

You are correct that the justice department already has an agreement with the US that they can arrest, detain and deport Irish citizens without judicial oversight.

However this does affect us in that Ireland is a member of the EU, and as such is bound by the strict EU privacy laws with regard to personal information, even if they wanted to they couldn't hand over information to US authorities. If this goes through of course, they can and will.

So what is the upshot? Lets say you make a post on boards about injuring the president of the US, or just being critical of their policies. US authorities can request access to your information (which ISPs are being forced to retain in the near future), find your address, show up outside your house and bundle you and your family into black vans, and whisk you off to Syria for a little extended re-education.

All perfectly legally.

Thanks for that, justice department.

And as for Tor nodes, they aren't as useful as you might think. German police have already seized many Tor servers in the name of stopping child pornography, and the system itself is flawed in that if you have enough nodes you can track incoming and outgoing requests and associate them with an IP. Find a less well known proxy, is my advice.

experiMental · 29-06-2008 11:18AM

This is an alarm bell for one thing: The World Superstate, all the countries of the world merged into one superstate.

kowloon · 29-06-2008 11:19AM

I stand corrected, but I wasn't far off the mark.

kowloon · 29-06-2008 11:19AM

experiMental wrote: »

This is an alarm bell for one thing: The World Superstate, all the countries of the world merged into one superstate.

I vote to call it Pangea

Black Swan · 29-06-2008 11:35AM

"Where would you like to vacation this year dear?" hubby says to wife.

"Let's leave Ireland and go someplace where it's warm and sunny," wife replies.

"But dear, petrol prices have gone through the roof, as have travel costs!" he complains in a huff.

"I've got a solution!" she proclaims with a smile. "Let's make sure that when we post to the web, words like terrorism, bombs, Bin Laden, and such are included in our messages."

"How will that get us our vacation?" he says, rolling his eyes.

"Heard of the NSA?" she proudly says, thinking she knows something hubby doesn't.

"Huh?"

"Folks call it No Such Agency, cause they hide behind the scenes, and have this programme that sifts through the web looking for words placed on their suspected terrorism list. If we use enough of them, they just might offer us a free vacation trip and place to stay in sunny Cuba!":cool:

brianthebard · 29-06-2008 11:39AM

I

cuba!

ejmaztec · 29-06-2008 12:23PM

brianthebard wrote: »

I cuba!

Congratulations on just being put on the "No fly list":eek:

Pompey Magnus · 29-06-2008 12:35PM

When the article says that the US and EU are negotiating, who exactly is it referring to when it says "the EU"? I mean is it MEPs who are happily giving away our personal information or non-elected officials?

Victor · 29-06-2008 02:05PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

like credit card transactions

Of course fundamentalist Muslim terrorists don't use credit cards.

brianthebard · 29-06-2008 02:07PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Congratulations on just being put on the "No fly list":eek:

oh noes :eek:

Kovik · 29-06-2008 02:47PM

I'm gonna freak out depending on the scale of the situation. If it gets to the stage that anyone with a history of mental illness or physical disability can no longer enter the US (you're requested to declare such things during emigration) I'll declare this to be a right STICKY WICKET!

From what I can gleam online, ISPs will shortly be logging Emails and IMs sent, when and where you log on and off the internet but not browsing history. This is similar to what they're already doing with phone calls under emergency powers. They'll be holding this information for about a year or so. The US will have to requisition data by appealing to EU authorities so they won't have unfettered access.

I'm sure these measures are extremely good crimefighting tools for police, but the risk of a breach of anonymity or personal data leak of any kind is also a STICKY WICKET. The sky isn't quite falling, but this is none too deadly. None too deadly at alls.

SimpleSam06 · 29-06-2008 04:04PM

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

When the article says that the US and EU are negotiating, who exactly is it referring to when it says "the EU"? I mean is it MEPs who are happily giving away our personal information or non-elected officials?

It's being negotiated by the Commission with a mandate of the EU Council of Ministers (who will later still have to, and probably will, approve it). The EU Council of Ministers consists of the ministers from all national governments (different ministers depending on the subject being discussed).

You know, those ministers who always approve unpopular measures when they're in the Council and then later at home blame the EU for having to implement those same measures in national law.

SimpleSam06 · 29-06-2008 04:16PM

Victor wrote: »

Of course fundamentalist Muslim terrorists don't use credit cards.

Thats something you and terrorists have in common, Victor. Both of you like to use your credit card.

Kovik wrote: »

The sky isn't quite falling, but this is none too deadly. None too deadly at alls.

No, the sky isn't falling, but it would be a big mistake to downplay it too much. This is a bad and unwelcome development.

Kovik · 29-06-2008 04:29PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

No, the sky isn't falling, but it would be a big mistake to downplay it too much. This is a bad and unwelcome development.

Aye. Primarily I'm concerned by the precedent being set here.

ejmaztec · 29-06-2008 05:02PM

The NSA is probably getting a fair amount of information out of GCHQ and various other places that we're kept in the dark about. I seem to remember seeing that GCHQ is at least partially funded by the NSA. So that's the UK and Ireland in its grasp already.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-06-2008 06:57PM

for most people the visible part of the problem is that the data will be sold on to US firms :mad:

and what are the chances of us collecting data on US citizens and then selling it on ?

SimpleSam06 · 29-06-2008 07:08PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

and what are the chances of us collecting data on US citizens and then selling it on ?

Nothing to stop you doing that right now, really...

Run_to_da_hills · 29-06-2008 07:16PM

This is just a taste of what we are up against with the fascist European parliament.

"American authorities will be able to obtain greater access to private information such as credit card transactions, internet browsing habits and travel histories of people in Britain under a deal being finalised by European Union officials". (Times on line)

And these are the very guys you wanted to vote "Yes" to on June 12th 2008 :eek: ...................

Welcome to the New World Order.

BrokenArrows · 29-06-2008 07:25PM

kelle wrote: »

I'm sure terrorists will use internet cafes to make their searches. In fact I'm getting scared as I write this....

humm, a working knowledge of how terrorists carryout their day today web browsing.

a quick email to the CIA.....

Run_to_da_hills · 29-06-2008 07:30PM

BrokenArrows wrote: »

humm, a working knowledge of how terrorists carryout their day today web browsing.

a quick email to the CIA.....

All Internet Cafes and will be required to have CCTV installed.

Kintarō Hattori · 29-06-2008 07:36PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

No, the sky isn't falling, but it would be a big mistake to downplay it too much. This is a bad and unwelcome development.

Sam for once I absolutely agree with you. :pac:

nyarlothothep · 29-06-2008 08:48PM

There was a before time and people got along quite well. Its simple really, don't use the internet...

Any self respecting terrorist will not use phones or the net to stay in communication, rather they will use pigeons to carry messages.

EamonnKeane · 29-06-2008 09:57PM

c - 13 wrote: »

Funnily enough I started reading 1984 this morning ...

Oooh! Somebody somewhere has underlined your name! That's subversive anti-freedom literature.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-06-2008 10:05PM

c - 13 wrote: »

Funnily enough I started reading 1984 this morning ...

You couldn't get a more up to date book. I actually read that book in 1984 :eek:

kowloon · 30-06-2008 04:44AM

I wonder how long it would take for someone to lose an archive of peoples emails or similar. The isps already do it on occassion, imagine how many more opportunities there would be for leaks with so many more people in the chain with access.

danniemcq · 30-06-2008 07:53AM

where's jim corr when ya want him!

kowloon · 30-06-2008 08:12AM

danniemcq wrote: »

where's jim corr when ya want him!

Jim corr is everywhere, he is everything to everyone, he is within us. He is you and me. When danger strikes each of us has the power to summon our inner jim.

Kev_ps3 · 30-06-2008 09:28AM

Another reason to pull out of the EU..

Statso · 30-06-2008 09:38AM

Dont worry guys (OSAMA BIN LADEN) they can't see what your (CERAMIC GUN) saying on the internet. (BOMB AMERICA) This isn't like the Bourne Identity (ASSASINATE BUSH) where the CIA have watch stations (HIJACK PLAN) in Europe looking for keywords.

Overheal · 30-06-2008 09:43AM

Statso wrote: »

Dont worry guys (OSAMA BIN LADEN) they can't see what your (CERAMIC GUN) saying on the internet. (BOMB AMERICA) This isn't like the Bourne Identity (ASSASINATE BUSH) where the CIA have watch stations (HIJACK PLAN) in Europe looking for keywords.

I lol'd but to be fair theyre probably after muslim/islamic/israeli keywords.

kowloon · 30-06-2008 10:44AM

Derka derka mohammed jihad?

Run_to_da_hills · 30-06-2008 10:56AM

Overheal wrote: »

I lol'd but to be fair theyre probably after muslim/islamic/israeli keywords.

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EU to give private citizens data to the US

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