Why is Kickboxing not in the olympics

siochain · 11-08-2008 07:31PM #1

Hi Folks,

Whats the criteria for getting a sport in the Olympics?
Cheers

keane2097 · 11-08-2008 07:34PM

siochain wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Whats the criteria for getting a sport in the Olympics?
Cheers

Back when WTF style Tae Kwondo got in I was doing ITF style and I seem to remember them saying we had no hope of getting in because it was too similar orsomething. I think maybe the fact that taekwondo and karate are there already (karate is isn't it?) might hamper it...

Black Swan · 11-08-2008 07:46PM

The only two MA Olympic sports that I am aware of are TKD and Judo. I do not believe karate is included. Olympic TKD is WTF rules per Kukkiwon (not ITF rules). The host country has a lot to do with the entry of a new sport into the Olympics (I am led to believe). TKD began when Seoul hosted in 1988? TKD is a national sport of So Korea.

One major difference between WTF and ITF rules is mat size, WTF being 12x12 meters, and ITF being 9x9 meters. There are obvious other differences, but I doubt that ITF rules would have a chance of being included in Olympic TKD, especially since the death of the General and the associated disorganisation and politics that impacted ITF (Is ITF still broken into 3 competing groups?).

I would think that KB should be included in the Olympics, but if host country is an important factor, what country would influence its inclusion? Not the UK (London)... the next site.

Pride Fighter · 11-08-2008 08:05PM

What guise of kickboxing would it be? Amateur full contact like the boxing or tappy de tap tap style, points or light continuous.
There are too many styles of kickboxing and too many political organisations for it to work IMO.

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 08:15PM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The only two MA Olympic sports that I am aware of are TKD and Judo. I do not believe karate is included. Olympic TKD is WTF rules per Kukkiwon (not ITF rules). The host country has a lot to do with the entry of a new sport into the Olympics (I am led to believe). TKD began when Seoul hosted in 1988? TKD is a national sport of So Korea.

One major difference between WTF and ITF rules is mat size, WTF being 12x12 meters, and ITF being 9x9 meters. There are obvious other differences, but I doubt that ITF rules would have a chance of being included in Olympic TKD, especially since the death of the General and the associated disorganisation and politics that impacted ITF (Is ITF still broken into 3 competing groups?).

I would think that KB should be included in the Olympics, but if host country is an important factor, what country would influence its inclusion? Not the UK (London)... the next site.

Wrestling is also in the olympics which is a martial art.

I would like to see BJJ & MMA in the olympics at some point. If not MMA, then perhaps combat sambo.

challengemaster · 11-08-2008 08:23PM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The only two MA Olympic sports that I am aware of are TKD and Judo. I do not believe karate is included. Olympic TKD is WTF rules per Kukkiwon (not ITF rules). The host country has a lot to do with the entry of a new sport into the Olympics (I am led to believe). TKD began when Seoul hosted in 1988? TKD is a national sport of So Korea.

One major difference between WTF and ITF rules is mat size, WTF being 12x12 meters, and ITF being 9x9 meters. There are obvious other differences, but I doubt that ITF rules would have a chance of being included in Olympic TKD, especially since the death of the General and the associated disorganisation and politics that impacted ITF (Is ITF still broken into 3 competing groups?).

I would think that KB should be included in the Olympics, but if host country is an important factor, what country would influence its inclusion? Not the UK (London)... the next site.

Straight from the wtf.org History section:

The WTF became an IOC-recognized sports federation in 1980, making Taekwondo an Olympic sport. Then the adoption of Taekwondo as an official event was followed by the world games in 1981, the pan-American games in 1986, and finally by the Sydney 2000 Olympics in 1994 and then Athens 2004 Olympic Games in 2000. On November 29, 2002, the 114th IOC Session also confirmed the inclusion of Taekwondo in the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games.

As for TKD - As history goes, Taekwon-do was founded the 11th April 1955 by General Choi Hong Hi, 9th Degree Grandmaster. The ITF was founded in 1966.

I'd definatly agree with what you're saying about the politics involved now, esp. after the death of General Choi.

The other main difference between ITF and WTF is the concept of sine wave. ITF being with, WTF being without. Big difference in patterns / poomse also.

As for kickboxing being in the Olympics - Personally I think there's quite a few martial arts that could be in the Olympics at this day and age, yet just aren't because from the outside, they seem similar to others.

Black Swan · 11-08-2008 08:24PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Wrestling is also in the olympics which is a martial art.

Well, if you are going to open the MA category, per se, then we will have to include many of the traditional Greek track and field sports, including discus, javelin, etc., etc., etc., as well as boxing (not T&F) and shooting.

Pride Fighter · 11-08-2008 08:26PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Wrestling is also in the olympics which is a martial art.

I would like to see BJJ & MMA in the olympics at some point. If not MMA, then perhaps combat sambo.

I'd call Wrestling a combat sport and not an MA but that is for another matter. Some form of MMA should be introduced. It could be amateur with headguards and chest protectors just so it could get recognition (it is still considered 'barbaric' by some). Submission wrestling should definitely be introduced, it would probably be FILA as Abu Dhabi goes against the amateur ethos still in evidence in a lot of the sports. With this in mind I am thinking 20 years down the line, an American does Greco-Roman wrestling + BJJ since the age of six. Gets gold medals in MMA, Greco-Roman and Sub wrestling. Turns pro and kicks ass. This will be the evolution of one of the greatest sports in existence IMO.

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 08:42PM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Well, if you are going to open the MA category, per se, then we will have to include many of the traditional Greek track and field sports, including discus, javelin, etc., etc., etc., as well as boxing (not T&F) and shooting.

Why would we? They have nothing to do with martial arts. Wrestling is as much of a martial art than any other MA. It doesn't have to be an eastern form of combat in order for it to be a martial art.

Wrestling is a martial art. There is no difference between it and Judo, other than judo focusing on a gi.

11-08-2008 08:48PM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Well, if you are going to open the MA category, per se, then we will have to include many of the traditional Greek track and field sports, including discus, javelin, etc., etc., etc., as well as boxing (not T&F) and shooting.

Only if people were throwing javelins at each other, which would make for an interesting sport.

RedRaven · 11-08-2008 08:49PM

Muay Thai is on the way to the Olympics!!;)

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 08:57PM

Is it RedRaven?

cowzerp · 11-08-2008 09:08PM

Boxing and Wrestling where part of the early day olympics, thats why there gauranteed entry, pankraton was also so would have a better chance of been in, this would be the closest thing to mma,

kickboxing is only a modern sport and if it was to be included then dozens of other similar sports could claim entry too! plus all the splits and organisations would make it impossibe]le also..

Black Swan · 11-08-2008 09:08PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Why would we? They have nothing to do with martial arts.

Javelin throwing was not a martial art? It was included during early Greek times in the Olympics because it was very much a martial art back then. Suggest you read a bit of early Greek and Roman history and what javelins were used for during war (martial art=war art).

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 09:12PM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Javelin throwing was not a martial art? It was included during early Greek times in the Olympics because it was very much a martial art back then. Suggest you read a bit of early Greek and Roman history and what javelins were used for during war (martial art=war art).

I'm not saying what it "was". Present day it's not a martial art. There is no element of combat. Wrestling involves two people, competing in a grappling art. Much like judo, which is also an martial art.

Your argument here is quite silly tbh.

Pride Fighter · 11-08-2008 09:17PM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Javelin throwing was not a martial art? It was included during early Greek times in the Olympics because it was very much a martial art back then. Suggest you read a bit of early Greek and Roman history and what javelins were used for during war (martial art=war art).

The way of the Peltast, runs off to create martial art:pac::pac::pac:

challengemaster · 11-08-2008 09:25PM

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm not saying what it "was". Present day it's not a martial art. There is no element of combat. Wrestling involves two people, competing in a grappling art. Much like judo, which is also an martial art.

Your argument here is quite silly tbh.

What's to stop it from being a martial art? It was used for war, at one time, it may be useless now by comparison, but I'm fairly sure nobody is using a whole lot of martial arts in war anyway these days. TKD and Judo being used during a war? Doubtful, tbh. I'd much quicker reach for a gun.

If you're going by these days, then maybe we should get a few tanks into the birds nest and let them have loose at eachother with armour piercing shells? Or stick a few firing squads in..

I don't really think _YOU_, some unknown person in Ireland, can dictate what is or is not criteria for being a martial art in the Olympics.

Your arguement here is quite silly, tbh.

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 09:40PM

challengemaster wrote: »

What's to stop it from being a martial art? It was used for war, at one time, it may be useless now by comparison, but I'm fairly sure nobody is using a whole lot of martial arts in war anyway these days. TKD and Judo being used during a war? Doubtful, tbh. I'd much quicker reach for a gun.

If you're going by these days, then maybe we should get a few tanks into the birds nest and let them have loose at eachother with armour piercing shells? Or stick a few firing squads in..

I don't really think _YOU_, some unknown person in Ireland, can dictate what is or is not criteria for being a martial art in the Olympics.

Your arguement here is quite silly, tbh.

Right, throwing a stick is a martial art. Javellin is already in the olympics as a track & field sport. They have already decided that it isn't a martial art.

Wrestling is far more of a martial art that Javellin throwing is. The object of which is to throw a stick the furthest, and not hit somebody with it.

Get real.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 11-08-2008 09:45PM

Pride Fighter wrote: »

There are too many styles of kickboxing and too many political organisations for it to work IMO.

I think that about hits the nail on the head in regards to the OP's question.

Black Swan · 11-08-2008 09:48PM

challengemaster wrote: »

If you're going by these days, then maybe we should get a few tanks into the birds nest and let them have loose at eachother with armour piercing shells?

Now CM, tanks against tanks would only be MA, which is not very popular any more. What about expanding it to MMA? Can't we combine our tanks with howitzers, stealth bombers, and a few cruise missiles? Now that's real, contemporary MMA! And instead of just tossing our rounds and bombs into an empty field, like they do with those ancient Greek and Roman war javelins during today's Olympics, we could have full contact! Then whomever was standing after the match could not complain about biased judging or poor ref'ing.

OP: Once again, KB should be included in the Olympics, but I doubt that it will be until some compelling interest gets the attention of the World Olympic Committee.

challengemaster · 11-08-2008 09:49PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Right, throwing a stick is a martial art. Javellin is already in the olympics as a track & field sport. They have already decided that it isn't a martial art.

Wrestling is far more of a martial art that Javellin throwing is. The object of which is to throw a stick the furthest, and not hit somebody with it.

Get real.

Well I'm sure you can see why the object for competitive javlin is length of throw, and not throwing it at people. If you can't, I suggest seeing a doctor or something. You really think that throwing a javlin at someone would be in the olympics? If you're serious, then the fatality count each games would be stupidly high.

Wrestling, as far as I know, you're not using anything which can penetrate the skin and kill instantly.

I'm fairly sure a bit of logic might go down well here. If you can't see this...:rolleyes:

Get real? Get real yourself mr. lets kill humans with sharp objects for sport and competition.

And nothing is more real than history.

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 09:57PM

challengemaster wrote: »

Well I'm sure you can see why the object for competitive javlin is length of throw, and not throwing it at people. If you can't, I suggest seeing a doctor or something. You really think that throwing a javlin at someone would be in the olympics? If you're serious, then the fatality count each games would be stupidly high.

They do not train it to throw it at people. The object is to throw it the furthest. It is not a martial art, and it is not trained with intentions of being a martial art. Quite simple logic here.

challengemaster wrote: »

Wrestling, as far as I know, you're not using anything which can penetrate the skin and kill instantly.

So you need to be able to penetrate skin and kill instantly for it to be a martial art? I see. I guess that puts karate, tkd, judo, kick-boxing, kung fu and all the rest out of the picture to then, right?

challengemaster wrote: »

I'm fairly sure a bit of logic might go down well here. If you can't see this...:rolleyes:

I'm sure it would. Let me know when you say something logical.

challengemaster wrote: »

Get real? Get real yourself mr. lets kill humans with sharp objects for sport and competition.

When did I say kill humans with sharp objects for sport and competition? I stated that javellin's objective is to throw it as far as possible. Not to kill someone. So hence, it's not a martial art. It's a track & field sport.

challengemaster wrote: »

And nothing is more real than history.

Ohhh!! The good old, "has to be really old and historical to be a martial art" debate.

challengemaster · 11-08-2008 10:03PM

Right, I'm giving up on trying to explain to you. You're obviously too stupid after taking a few too many hits to the head.

Can you even quote any more out of context, or have you just decided you're right from the start and any arguement over this fact, you'll completly go out of context and miss every point.

Oh, and the logic is that you dont ****ing throw it at people any more because its dangerous, you ****ing halfwit.

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 10:09PM

AKA - You have nothing to say.

Enjoy your ban.

challengemaster · 11-08-2008 10:14PM

AKA. I'm not going to waste my time debating with the likes of you, who ignore simple logic and are stuck so far up their own hole.

I'll will actually enjoy my ban, because it means not having to read the pure bull****e that comes out of this forum and its users.

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 10:17PM

Ignore the simple logic of throwing a stick being a martial art opposed to a track & field sport?

Cya now.

Roper · 11-08-2008 10:36PM

Are you people arguing about javelin being a martial art or not?

I love the internet.

dlofnep · 11-08-2008 10:55PM

That's what it's come to Roper.

Burnt · 12-08-2008 08:03AM

Old school Javelin. WAARRR!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNW4e9NevuQ

A javelin throw from Finland's Tero Pitkamaki embedded itself in the side of French long jumper Salim Sdiri as he waited to compete during an IAAF Golden League meeting in Rome 2007

Colm_OReilly · 12-08-2008 08:27AM

The two of you, shut the hell up! Consider this a warning. I don't want to see you on this thread after this.

OP, sorry for the bollox that this thread descended into.

To be an Olympic sport, and I'm going from memory here, it has to be widley practiced on 4 continents (3 for female sports I believe). There's other criteria there as well, and it would depend on whether the world governing body (of which there's probably none coherant enough) needs to petition the IOC and then it would also depend on the flavour/direction of the IOC at the time.

Clive could probably explain more if he's around.

geronimo1 · 12-08-2008 10:13AM

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

The two of you, shut the hell up! Consider this a warning. I don't want to see you on this thread after this.

OP, sorry for the bollox that this thread descended into.

To be an Olympic sport, and I'm going from memory here, it has to be widley practiced on 4 continents (3 for female sports I believe). There's other criteria there as well, and it would depend on whether the world governing body (of which there's probably none coherant enough) needs to petition the IOC and then it would also depend on the flavour/direction of the IOC at the time.

Clive could probably explain more if he's around.

yahoo how do some things become so petty put them in there place colm.and without doubt bjj would and should make a great olympic sport.the years of learning the art to achieve olympic recognition i think would be excellent

Clive · 12-08-2008 12:48PM

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but the chances of any new martial arts getting into the olympics at this stage are slim.

They can become recognised International Sports Federations (much like karate, sumo and wushu) but they ain't going to be part of the games. They are trying to decrease the number of sports not increase them - there was talk about dropping Greco at one stage.

Roper · 12-08-2008 01:43PM

Taekwondo narrowly avoided the bullet too.

Nothingcompares · 12-08-2008 03:10PM

I'd could live with them alternating between greco and submission wrestling for a while. that would be cool. i've heard rumours of sambo looking for entry but as clive says i find that hard to believe. i think judo is too big to be replaced/alternated with bjj.

Pingu · 12-08-2008 03:20PM

Sambo is looking for an entry, it was discussed at the World Congress last year. At the moment they are continuing to expand the numbers to have a better chance.

Hero Of College · 12-08-2008 03:47PM

Every other bloody sport is in the Olympics. No reason why Kick Boxing shouldn't be in there.

ryoishin · 12-08-2008 03:53PM

They should just make darts part of the olympics with a 13 pints of Bud as minimum, then we d see some kickboxing over bad calls!

RedRaven · 12-08-2008 06:52PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Is it RedRaven?

Yes my man, loads of indicators that this will happen, invites to the torch lighting in Beijing, representation at various meetings and sporting events over the past 2 to 3 years...its coming!!;)

siochain · 12-08-2008 06:58PM

cowzerp wrote: »

Boxing and Wrestling where part of the early day olympics, thats why there gauranteed entry, pankraton was also so would have a better chance of been in, this would be the closest thing to mma,

kickboxing is only a modern sport and if it was to be included then dozens of other similar sports could claim entry too! plus all the splits and organisations would make it impossibe]le also..

boxing has lots of different organizations how do they work it?
Cheers

siochain · 12-08-2008 07:09PM

Suppose it’s just frustrating that the like’s of 10m air pistol gets in and kickboxing can't. Not taking anything away from 10m air pistol I respect that that’s their sport and have worked very hard to get to the Olympics but seriously how many competitors world wide compete seriously in 10m air pistol V’s kb or mt.

SorGan · 12-08-2008 08:50PM

taekwondo is in it, isnt that kickboxing? or quite similar in competition?

Colm_OReilly · 12-08-2008 08:58PM

siochain wrote: »

boxing has lots of different organizations how do they work it?
Cheers

One world governing body recognised for amateur boxing.

Tim_Murphy · 13-08-2008 07:47AM

SorGan wrote: »

taekwondo is in it, isnt that kickboxing? or quite similar in competition?

ITF style TKD is quite similar to Light Contact Kickboxing. WTF, or Olympic, TKD is basically a completely different sport, which isn't that similar to Kickboxing, or indeed to ITF TKD.

Niall Keane · 13-08-2008 09:36AM

Sanshou was going to be a host sport this time around, but the various wushu governing bodies couldn't agree. First the form dansers didn't want it there, and wanted to have a forms only competition. They gave some very lame reasoning.
My own belief is that they know from experience that where sanshou and forms competitions are held at the same event, noone is interested in watching 50 versions of the same form.
Also a traditional wushu organisation wanted to restrict the entrants to their brand only of sanshou fighters, they even held qualifiers last year in China, with lads representing countries with less than 5 fights, where established and ranked international fighters weren't given a look in. The IOC wasn't too impressed.
So we have no sanshou this year, shame really.

joepenguin · 15-08-2008 10:59PM

Kickboxing got GAISF ( http://www.agfisonline.com/ ) recognition a year or two ago, this is the first step in getting to the olympics but id say it would be a long way off. WAKO are the body that gaisf recognise... this is the "new wako" which as far as im aware is the merging of IAKSA and the old WAKO.
Mauy Thai has gaisf recognition also so if KB made it to the olympics it would probably be full contact. Semi would be in the running also and maybe forms?

cowzerp · 16-08-2008 02:22PM

siochain wrote: »

boxing has lots of different organizations how do they work it?
Cheers

As said before, boxing has 1 world governing body, kickboxing is a mess in this way-i dont see why it should be included anyway, if it should then why not kenpo, wada ryu, etc....

Mikel · 19-08-2008 12:19AM

Roper wrote: »

Are you people arguing about javelin being a martial art or not?

I love the internet.

LOL, funniest thread ever!
I can't wait til the next 'what is a ma thread'.
I think the bow and arrow is more of a ma than the javelin

conor rowan · 26-08-2008 08:54AM

marial arts in olympics

boxing
grecoroman
fencing
freestyle wrestling
tkd
judo

taking martial arts definition to be 2 people fighting

olympics has a cap on level of sports now so if you want a new one another one has to be dropped. case in point, iron man was in sydney olympics, no sign of it in beijing.

every year loads of sports are trying to get in. its unlikely that a new ma will be added as the mas dont have much lobbying power, i think either rubgy 7s (met irb lad over lobbying for it in the pub) or golf would be my tips for the new sports.

i for one would like to see more ma added and soccer and tennis kicked out. the olympics should be the pinnacle of an athletes career not something a pro does in the quiet season or as training for the next open

cletus · 26-08-2008 06:46PM

This is from the Olympic Charter http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_122.pdf

Sports Programme, Admission of Sports,
Disciplines and Events
The IOC establishes the programme of the Olympic Games, which
only includes Olympic Sports.
88 In force as from 1 September 2004
Chapter 5
The Olympic Games
1 Olympic Sports included in the Programme of the Olympic
Games:
To be included in the programme of the Olympic Games, an
Olympic sport must conform to the following criteria:
1.1 only sports widely practised by men in at least seventyfive
countries and on four continents, and by women in
at least forty countries and on three continents, may be
included in the programme of the Games of the
Olympiad;
1.2 only sports widely practised in at least twenty-five
countries and on three continents may be included in the
programme of the Olympic Winter Games;
1.3 only sports that adopt and implement the World Anti-
Doping Code can be included and remain in the
programme of the Olympic Games;
1.4 sports are admitted to the programme of the Olympic
Games at least seven years before specific Olympic
Games in respect of which no change shall thereafter be
permitted, subject to paragraph 6 below.

Mission and Role of the IFs within the Olympic Movement
1 The mission and role of the IFs within the Olympic
Movement are:
1.1 to establish and enforce, in accordance with the Olympic
spirit, the rules concerning the practice of their respective
sports and to ensure their application;
1.2 to ensure the development of their sports throughout
the world;
1.3 to contribute to the achievement of the goals set out in
the Olympic Charter, in particular by way of the spread
of Olympism and Olympic education;
1.4 to express their opinions on the candidatures for
organising the Olympic Games, in particular as far as the
technical aspects of venues for their respective sports are
concerned;

Chapter 3
The International Federations (IFs)
58 In force as from 1 September 2004
Chapter 3
The International Federations
1.5 to establish their criteria of eligibility for the competitions
of the Olympic Games in conformity with the Olympic
Charter, and to submit these to the IOC for approval;
1.6 to assume the responsibility for the technical control and
direction of their sports at the Olympic Games and at the
Games held under the patronage of the IOC;
1.7 to provide technical assistance in the practical
implementation of the Olympic Solidarity programmes.
2 In addition, the IFs have the right to:
2.1 formulate proposals addressed to the IOC concerning
the Olympic Charter and the Olympic Movement;
2.2 collaborate in the preparation of Olympic Congresses;
2.3 participate, on request from the IOC, in the activities
of the IOC commissions.
In force as from 1 September 2004 59

I don't think that kick boxing, bjj, or mma conform to all the requirements here

Why is Kickboxing not in the olympics

Comments