Gardai may be given new powers to enter your house / car to disable nuisance alarms.

Run_to_da_hills · 27-08-2008 04:08PM #1

Perhaps no harm, I have often threatened to go out myself with a lump hammer and ladder and remove the neighbours nuisance alarm off the wall when they go away on holidays.

You would also want to make sure your house is in order before you go away, i.e no roach ends left lying around in ash trays etc

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/gardai-may-get-power-to-switch-off-nuisance-alarms-13954874.html

biko · 27-08-2008 04:14PM

Finally, fecking alarms going off and staying on are a bloody nuisance.

Deadeyes · 27-08-2008 04:15PM

A few questions spring to mind
How will they enter your house, kick the door in?
When they leave will it still be secure?
If they know how to turn off your alarm surely others will as well.
If your house is robbed after they entered and disabled your alarm can you sue?

SpookyDoll · 27-08-2008 04:21PM

BRING.
IT.
ON.

About time too, people who set their alarms yet fail to nominate a keyholder who knows the pin code are selfish [EMAIL="tw@ts"]tw@ts[/EMAIL].
What is the point of setting it to ring away if no-one is going to come and see to it. NONE.

I have stopped putting on my alarm as in my estate we are plagued day and night by nuisance alarms that have been set by thoughtless people who went off on their merry way leaving neighbours to hours and days of utter misery.

I am glad someone somewhere has finally seen sense.

If I had've had a shotgun last night I would not have hesitated to blow one off the wall, it went on for hours.

SpookyDoll · 27-08-2008 04:23PM

Deadeyes wrote: »

A few questions spring to mind
How will they enter your house, kick the door in?
When they leave will it still be secure?
If they know how to turn off your alarm surely others will as well.
If your house is robbed after they entered and disabled your alarm can you sue?

None of that is relevant, if you had left a key and a contact number with the neighbours none of it would even be necessary.

I would hate the guards to break into my house but if I had failed in my civic duty to my neighbours by failing to leave contact details for a keyholder it would serve me right.

javaboy · 27-08-2008 04:24PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Perhaps no harm, I have often threatened to go out myself with a lump hammer and ladder and remove the neighbours nuisance alarm off the wall when they go away on holidays.

You would also want to make sure your house is in order before you go away, i.e no roach ends left lying around in ash trays etc

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/gardai-may-get-power-to-switch-off-nuisance-alarms-13954874.html

I'm confused. The authorities are being given more power to intrude in our lives and you're.... in favour of it?

Now I feel stupid. I put on my tinfoil hat for nothing.

seamus · 27-08-2008 04:26PM

One step too far. This is the problem when you get as far left-wing as the Green Party. Civil liberties get shat all over.

Nobody, including the Gardai, should be permitted to enter your home except in circumstances where someone's life is in danger, a criminal needs to be apprehended, or where a warrant has been issued.

What are the Gardai going to do when they get in there anyway? Keep pressing button until they get the right code? Start disconnecting batteries and wires in the hope that they get them all?

Ridiculous.

The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

lostinnappies · 27-08-2008 04:27PM

about bloody time

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2008 04:31PM

What's wrong with leaving a key with the neighbours? We had two who had keys and knew how to disarm the alarm.

They had to do it once when we were at the shops. They went in, looked around, everything ok, turned off alarm, locked up, left. Where do the guards come in...?

shenanigans1982 · 27-08-2008 04:31PM

The only solution is vagrancy.

Sherifu · 27-08-2008 04:34PM

ID cards for some, house alarms for others!

PurpleBerry · 27-08-2008 04:36PM

Last weekend there was an alarm that started sounding at about 3pm on Saturday and kept going until some time on Monday. It was mercifuly silent by the time I got home from work.

kirving · 27-08-2008 05:30PM

They could just get a ladder and turn it off from the outside. Or forget the ladder and shoot it, and a few windows too as punishement.

Obviously this wouldn't be possible if it was the internal alarm causing the problen, as in apartments or semi-d houses.

But really, if all reasonable efforts have been made to contact the owner, the Gardai should be allowed to break in, possibly with a locksmith to cause as little damage as possible and cut the wires to the internal siren too.

Call in an electricion for that too and send the owner the bill.

Hauk · 27-08-2008 05:38PM

Thank god!

My nextdoor neighbours are hardly ever there. They have a really sensitive alarm system in the house. The house is old so the windows are always rattling when it's windy. So then the alarm goes off. I've been in bed at 7am with the stupid thing going off and still not able to sleep.

Can't wait

Hauk

humanji · 27-08-2008 05:47PM

Is there not a law or something stating that alarms have to turn off after a certain amount of time?

ExoduS 18.11 · 27-08-2008 05:48PM

surely a word with your neighbours should solve most of these problems. Well i live in the country and thats how it goes. We have a spare key to the neighbours in case an alarm goes off and we can turn it off. Nobody has the right to my home, unless someone inside is in danger without relevant documentation.

Riamfada · 27-08-2008 05:51PM

Gormley is out of his (wheely) bin. He puts noise pollution above the right to personal privacy and civil liberties. Ill chose a noisy alarm over gardai having the power to break into my house. Madness. Thank God the Greens only have 1 Ministry and hopefully not after the next election.

ps: I voted for them :mad:
* they also want to lower the speed limits to save the planet. Screw road deaths

Run_to_da_hills · 27-08-2008 05:55PM

javaboy wrote: »

I'm confused. The authorities are being given more power to intrude in our lives and you're.... in favour of it?

Now I feel stupid. I put on my tinfoil hat for nothing.

I have a local key holder that looks after my alarm, its also resets itself automatically if a bird or cat triggers it off. Never had problems.

Anyone who cannot maintain their alarm i.e have it reset after 10 minutes and authorize a local key holder deserves what ever abuse they get whether its the cops kicking in their door or some guy attacking it with a lump hammer trying to get some kip. If the person cannot find a keyholder there are security companies that will do this service with a call out charge.

Red Alert · 27-08-2008 06:11PM

I think there's no reason for the internal sounder to ring forever either - it could have a longer timeout than the one outside, but I think it should reset on its own.

doonothing · 27-08-2008 06:25PM

Wait.. If they enter your home, by whatever means, who pays for any repairs? I'm sure they won't, but then can you claim it from the alarm supplier, saying it was faulty or something? How can anything be proved in this situation? Silly new rule! House alarms are a nuisance, but this is skating strangely invasive areas to rid people of a "nuisance",no?

Odd move!

biko · 27-08-2008 06:27PM

seamus wrote: »

One step too far. This is the problem when you get as far left-wing as the Green Party. Civil liberties get shat all over.

Since when is the left and green wanting to give the police more powers?
That's the right-wing Tories job!

If anyone has a persistent alarm they should be dragged out onto the street and chained to their car for a full night.

javaboy · 27-08-2008 06:33PM

biko wrote: »

Since when is the left and green wanting to give the police more powers?
That's the right-wing Tories job!

I have a theory that the political landscape is round and not flat. Go far enough in either direction and you basically end up in the same place.

And left shall be right and right shall be left. Yea verily.

Toto Wolfcastle · 27-08-2008 06:52PM

People should just give a key to their neighbours or at least a contact number. Unfortunately, people are stupid and don't do this, so if the Gardai want to enter these peoples' houses that's fine by me.

When my neighbours went on holidays one year they gave us the number of a relative and I had no problem ringing him at 4 in the morning to get him to turn the alarm off. Funnily enough after that they just gave us a key!

Tbh alarms don't annoy me that much, but they do annoy my dad, and I don't like angry dad, so I welcome our new alarm overlords.

Edit: I also like Seamus's idea.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 27-08-2008 07:10PM

I'd like the public to be given the legal power to take a shít through the offending house's letterbox.

Jack Sheehan · 27-08-2008 07:13PM

A step too far. I agree with Seamus.

Peared · 27-08-2008 07:20PM

I'd go one step further.

Give them the power to go into peoples houses who..

a) have dogs that bark all night
b) have stupid loud cars that come and go all night
c) have friends who are too focking lazy to get out of their car and ring the bell and beep the horn instead
d) have parties that go on all night cos they're wasters with no jobs and no need to get up in the morning
e) make random banging noises
f)argue and fight every weekend amongst themselves

..and kill them all stone dead.

Edit oh yeah and the alarm people too, got a bit distracted there.

Deadeyes · 27-08-2008 07:37PM

Judge: Why did you enter the house?
Garda: The alarm was sounding.
Judge: How long had it been going for?
Garda: We set it off about 30 minutes prior to entering the house.
Judge: Why did you set it off?
Garda: Well, we knew he was guilty of something but you wouldn't give us a search warrant.

Victor · 27-08-2008 08:26PM

seamus wrote: »

The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

lol, one more database.

Dyr · 27-08-2008 08:27PM

The greens always had a massive totalitarian streak in them, their whole ethos is based on dictating how everyone else should live. Its only now that the f***ers are in govt that people have realised that they aqrent the safe cuddly party you can feel good about voting for

seamus · 27-08-2008 08:31PM

Victor wrote: »

lol, one more database.

Actually if I had my way it would be one database overall with a shedload of different tables and views.

javaboy · 27-08-2008 08:41PM

seamus wrote: »

Actually if I had my way it would be one database overall with a shedload of different tables and views.

CuLT for Taoiseach Chief Database Admin.

TheNog · 28-08-2008 12:46PM

The idea of entering a house or a car to turn off the alarm is laughable tbh. I was practically in tears laughing watching the news. There is no way the Attorney General can pass this through the constitution plus how would we enter the premises or vehicle??

Once on the premises what are we supposed to do next? Call a locksmith and electrician?? For God's sake we all know how long we have to wait for an electrician to come out. We simply do not have the time to be waiting around for an electrician who is 30-40 minutes late.

The idea of upgrading the older alarms within the next 2 years is a good idea where external alarms do switch off after a certain time.

I do however agree to issusing on the spot fines for noise pollution not only to cover alarms but also dogs and house parties. In order of us to do this we would probably have to have the ability to measure the level of decibels. Then again would the decibels be over while being measured outside on the street or from the neighbours house. Many neighbours make the complaint to us but don't want us calling to their door for obvious reasons.

The whole process surrounding monitored alarm company needs to be seriously over-hauled as in contact between the monitoring companies and the Gardai. There is little communication between the two.

d0gb0y · 28-08-2008 02:14PM

This goes against the constitution and is open to abuse. I wonder has the minister who is involved in this got friends/family involved in the home security business. Better off just not having an alarm now since noone responds to them anymore the only ones who insist on it are home insurers.
FFS the green party allow shell to rape the natural resources of this country without paying sweet feck all taxes and export the gas abroad even though its against the constitution. The green in the green party stands for green dollars bunch of hypocritcal bastards:mad:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 28-08-2008 02:16PM

(we don't use dollars)

javaboy · 28-08-2008 02:17PM

|-*SxyDubGrrl93*-| wrote: »

(we don't use dollars)

Yes but his little joke about the Green in Green Party doesn't work the same with Euro notes. They're all sorts of silly colours like red and blue and even green.

connundrum · 28-08-2008 02:19PM

seamus wrote: »

The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

A good suggestion.

I do believe that alarm companies should be regulated and that all products should have the 15 - 20 minute automatic turn off mechanism.

That said, I gladly would have pulled a neighbour's alarm off his wall recently when it rang from 11pm - 7.30am. The only thing stopping me was the distinct lack of a ladder.

I noted that most news reports on the issue alluded to the fact that we should all have Eircom Phonewatch. Wonder how much they paid for that..

d0gb0y · 28-08-2008 02:33PM

|-*SxyDubGrrl93*-| wrote: »

(we don't use dollars)

the 100 euro note is green will that do ye:pac:

hottstuff · 28-08-2008 03:02PM

How many more recruits will be needed to implement this i wonder?
I laughed when i heard this.

Regulate the alarm installers , not the customer.

fred funk }{ · 28-08-2008 04:49PM

hottstuff wrote: »

How many more recruits will be needed to implement this i wonder?
I laughed when i heard this.

Regulate the alarm installers , not the customer.

The security industry is probably the most regulated industry/sector out there. It has been totally reformed in the last few years.

All alarms should be monitored either by a central station, text or by a voice dialler. Some of those options are cheap enough and it would ensure that no alarm would be ringing for long.

Your home is your castle and there is no way this proposal will become law, and as others have said it's open to so much abuse.

What if somebody had a grudge against you and kept throwing a tennis ball at your window when you weren't there and ringing the gardai telling them the alarm keeps ringing, the gardai then break into the house wreck the door/window getting in and then wreck the alarm trying to turn it off, the house holder ends up paying for all the damage.

It's more sh*te from the Greens, them boys really haven't a clue what they're at.

Victor · 28-08-2008 07:08PM

TheNog wrote: »

I do however agree to issusing on the spot fines for noise pollution not only to cover alarms but also dogs and house parties. In order of us to do this we would probably have to have the ability to measure the level of decibels. Then again would the decibels be over while being measured outside on the street or from the neighbours house. Many neighbours make the complaint to us but don't want us calling to their door for obvious reasons.

The industry standard for nighttime is for average noise and peak noise at the outside of a first floor window and ground floor window during the day. For the purposes of this act (or any regulatiosn or bye-laws thereunder), a table could be scheduled specifying a noise level at the boundary in addition to the above.

d0gb0y wrote: »

This goes against the constitution and is open to abuse. I wonder has the minister who is involved in this got friends/family involved in the home security business. Better off just not having an alarm now since noone responds to them anymore the only ones who insist on it are home insurers.

FFS the green party allow shell to rape the natural resources of this country without paying sweet feck all taxes and export the gas abroad even though its against the constitution. The green in the green party stands for green dollars bunch of hypocritcal bastards:mad:

No, I think that was Ray Burke, a FF member.

d0gb0y · 28-08-2008 07:37PM

Victor wrote: »

No, I think that was Ray Burke, a FF member.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0828/1219873097682.html

from the times article it says it was Wormley oops I mean Gormley and iirc hes a greener

thebman · 28-08-2008 07:39PM

Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face

Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay!

Now it is 1984
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece

Aw the good auld insane green party masquerading as the good guys to remove you rights and force you to behave they way they say or they'll let their squad march into your house and do as they please. I like them already.

cuckoo · 28-08-2008 07:57PM

I'd welcome this - i live in a built up area and there are some alarms that will be ringing for hours on end.

It should be the stick that forces householders/car owners to use their alarm systems properly, and with some consideration. I've been tempted to go around to some of my neighbours, throw a brick through the front window and set fire to their alarm controls - anything to make the awful noise stop.

There's so many laws around things like concerts taking place in residential areas having to end by a certain time, but there seems to be nothing done about the day to day annoyance of out of control alarms.

pred racer · 28-08-2008 08:02PM

seamus wrote: »

One step too far. This is the problem when you get as far left-wing as the Green Party. Civil liberties get shat all over.

Nobody, including the Gardai, should be permitted to enter your home except in circumstances where someone's life is in danger, a criminal needs to be apprehended, or where a warrant has been issued.

What are the Gardai going to do when they get in there anyway? Keep pressing button until they get the right code? Start disconnecting batteries and wires in the hope that they get them all?

Ridiculous.

The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

+1

Ross_Mahon · 28-08-2008 08:03PM

Just get people to get rid of their old crappy alarms.

Karlos_Sparky · 31-08-2008 02:00AM

Right now as we speak there is an alarm going off in my appartment block and it has been going off for the last 36 hours ......... it is the loudest alarm I have heard in my life ...... Bring on this new law before I kill someone

RoosterIllusion · 31-08-2008 02:37AM

seamus wrote: »

Nobody, including the Gardai, should be permitted to enter your home except in circumstances where someone's life is in danger, a criminal needs to be apprehended, or where a warrant has been issued.

What are the Gardai going to do when they get in there anyway? Keep pressing button until they get the right code? Start disconnecting batteries and wires in the hope that they get them all?

Ridiculous.

The solution is very simple - when someone makes a complaint, the Gardai attempt to contact the householder. If they cannot, the Gardai attend to the scene after 30 minutes and knock on the door. If there is no answer, you issue a fine for €2500.

The Gardai get a list of householder names from land registry, and householders have an obligation to provide contact details and keyholder names to the Gardai, to be entered into the national database.

That way, nobody's civil liberties are shat on, and people have a bloody good reason to make sure their alarms work properly.

Rubbish. My neighbours alarm went off at 7 am on Friday morning and only ceased to sound a few hours ago. Thats over 40 hours of a high pitched, intrusive sound, day and night. They appear to have left for the weekend so basically we had to put up with it because the guards said they cant do anything in that situation. The power to enter someone's home to silence an alarm or even an animal (neighbours dog barking all the time anyone?) is a very necessary power and I challenge anyone to be forced to listen to a f*cking alarm for 40 hours and not get angry about it. It's torturous.

TheNog · 31-08-2008 06:41AM

The power to enter a person's house in order to switch off an alarm or silence a barking dog would be a power too far imo and I'm certain this power would go against the constitution.
However I do agree with Gormley's suggestion to have all alarms monitored so at least a key holder could be got a hold off to switch off the alarm and check the property with the Gardai. This would put a stop to alarms going off for hours on end.

The matter of a dog constantly barking, I don;t honestly know what you could do there. Maybe by bringing the owner to court for something similar to breach of the peace but a new law would be needed to cover that.

Wibbs · 31-08-2008 09:25AM

The greens are in the main idiots. That's a given. Luckily they got into power this time in small numbers so people(hopefully) will see that so they die a death this time around before they get real power. This is just the latest in a series of imbecilic ill thought out responses to a problem from politicos in this country from all sides.

It's unworkable. The guards won't want to do it, the constitution will likely stop it in it's tracks and if it did get in it would be an absolute farce from a practical point of view. Lets add yet another farce to the list.

Yes we've all had alarms go off and keep going and going and... Yes it's bloody infuriating, but to agree to a law like this, that plays with ones rights to this degree would be as imbecilic as those who suggest it in the first place. That worries more than the greens tbh. "I'm infuriated by (insert whatever here), so lets throw the baby out with the bathwater and not think this through in any way" type thinking is what scares me far more.

Seamus' ideas are the sensible way to deal with this problem. Though god forbid sense might get in the way.:rolleyes:

dohda · 31-08-2008 09:42AM

Although I do agree that noisy alarms are annoying I don't see how this could ever work. Are the guards going to keep an eye on your house 24hrs a day while you were on holidays because they broke in your front door and turned off the alarm?

I can just imagine ringing the isurance company:

"Hi I need to claim for all contents on my house insurance"
"No the alarm was not on."
"No the front door was not locked."
"Sorry for wasting your time."

WoollyRedHat · 31-08-2008 03:25PM

I love the irony in all this. The fact that the alarm, the very thing that is supposed to alert a burgarly may also trigger a break-in afterwards.

mmmmmmm!

I'm sick of the Greens tbh, and Fianna Failers... they are all tosspots. And the sad thing is we have about 4 more years of them.

Gardai may be given new powers to enter your house / car to disable nuisance alarms.

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