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Legality of Ryanair's advertising

  • 19-09-2008 07:34AM
    #1
    Kotek Besar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭


    I've just sent the following complaint to The Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland :

    "Ryanair advertise flights at €5 one-way, "no other taxes, fees or charges". However, this is false, since upon paying for the booking, after choosing flights, the purchaser is forced to pay a credit/debit card fee (which is heavily inflated, compared with the actual cost incurred by Ryanair for processing the payment with the bank). Whilst Ryanair state that the credit/debit card fee is not applied when paying with Visa Electron, this is again misleading, since no Irish bank issues Visa Electron cards. Therefore, it is impossible for an Irish resident to pay with a Visa Electron card, and thus to not pay Ryanair''s inflated credit/debit card fee. Therefore, Ryanair's advertisement of "no other taxes, fees or charges" is false and misleading, since it is not appropriate to Irish residents."

    What do you reckon?


Comments

  • #2
    hada
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭hada


    well done on actually doing something about this - I booked two separate return trips within the last week with ryan air, to find that EACH flight segment (that's say, shannon to london one way, and then london to shannon being seen as two seperate segments) being charged 5 euro, so the minimum you're going to be pay is 10euro per trip return in "admin charges".

    They say it's to cover their admin costs but to be honest, 5 euro per flight segment? You must be kidding me!

    Ryanair have been found guilty of false advertising by the advertising authority in the past, someone brought a case saying that he couldn't get a flight on the days they ryanair were advertising one of their sales.

    On a side note, you should also bring a complaint to the National Consumer Agency, http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/

    They even have the capacity to fine Ryanair if they find them misleading.


  • #3
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    How many of these 5 Euro flights do they actually have because on wednesday i tried to book flights withing the dates mentioned to Brussels and flights where between 30-50Euro. Where are these so called 5euro flights. Ok, they are subject to availability but that is ridiculous. I can never avail of ryanairs free tax flights:mad:


  • #4
    Kotek Besar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭Kotek Besar


    hada wrote: »
    On a side note, you should also bring a complaint to the National Consumer Agency, http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/

    They even have the capacity to fine Ryanair if they find them misleading.

    Thanks for the idea. I've just done it. :)


  • #5
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Well done.


  • #6
    Tarakiwa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 633 ✭✭✭Tarakiwa


    You might note that Ryanair have developed a habbit of not responding to the ASAI on complaints raised by them.

    The ASAI are a self-regulatory organisation with very little real teeth.

    However, they can - and they now have, brought this to the attention of the NCA. The NCA have real powers and if they perform the tasks that they were established for they should take actoin!

    The only way to change this type of behaviour is to complain to the ASAI / NCA often!


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  • #7
    Sangre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Halifax offer visa electron afaik.


  • #8
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    The ASAI are not a statutory body. They're self-regulating with no legal authority. I don't think Ryanair are going to give a shit about what they say.


  • #9
    therecklessone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    Halifax offer a Visa Electron card, and it is also possible to buy an Electron gift card from MBNA. Not ideal I grant you, but available to Irish customers all the same.


  • #10
    Tarakiwa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 633 ✭✭✭Tarakiwa


    David McWilliams wrote: »
    The ASAI are not a statutory body. They're self-regulating with no legal authority. I don't think Ryanair are going to give a shit about what they say.

    I think that they will care that the ASAI have informed the NCA - who do have powers and real teeth!!


  • #11
    Kotek Besar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭Kotek Besar


    Sangre wrote: »
    Halifax offer visa electron afaik.

    Seriously? This would be fantastic if true. Can't find anything on Halifax's website re Visa Electron though.. :(


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  • #12
    therecklessone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    benifa wrote: »
    Seriously? This would be fantastic if true. Can't find anything on Halifax's website re Visa Electron though.. :(

    They refer to it as a Visa Debit card:

    http://www.halifax.ie/index.jsp?1nID=94&pID=520&nID=629#abroad


  • #13
    Kotek Besar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭Kotek Besar


    therecklessone wrote: »
    They refer to it as a Visa Debit card:

    http://www.halifax.ie/index.jsp?1nID=94&pID=520&nID=629#abroad

    Ah, that's very different then. Visa Debit and Visa Electron are not the same.


  • #14
    therecklessone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    benifa wrote: »
    Ah, that's very different then. Visa Debit and Visa Electron are not the same.

    I stand corrected.

    MBNA giftcard is an alternative.


  • #15
    axer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    benifa wrote: »
    "Ryanair advertise flights at €5 one-way, "no other taxes, fees or charges". However, this is false, since upon paying for the booking, after choosing flights, the purchaser is forced to pay a credit/debit card fee (which is heavily inflated, compared with the actual cost incurred by Ryanair for processing the payment with the bank).
    Incorrect the purchaser is not forced to pay the CC fee.
    benifa wrote: »
    Whilst Ryanair state that the credit/debit card fee is not applied when paying with Visa Electron, this is again misleading, since no Irish bank issues Visa Electron cards.
    Incorrect, MBNA offer a Visa electron gift card whereby there are no fees.
    benifa wrote: »
    Therefore, it is impossible for an Irish resident to pay with a Visa Electron card, and thus to not pay Ryanair''s inflated credit/debit card fee. Therefore, Ryanair's advertisement of "no other taxes, fees or charges" is false and misleading, since it is not appropriate to Irish residents."

    What do you reckon?
    Your argument is incorrect in its entirety since it is possible for Irish customers to get the flight at the advertised price thus your complaint was a complete waste of time....next!


  • #16
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    I suppose if the advertising is directed solely at those people who hold a certain type of credit card then it is spot on. If Ryanair honestly wished to sell to only MBNA/Electron card holders via their campaign I'm sure they could easily get their hands on a mailing list that would target them exactly.

    But that is not what they are doing, is it? The adverts are directed at as many of the general public as possible regardless of their personal financial arrangements. I think I could safely say that the number of the public who don't have this specific credit card far outnumber those who do. The advertiser knows this and is being deliberately "cute" about the whole matter. So yes, the ads are misleading in as much as what they offer is not actually available to the majority of those who are targetted by the ad.


  • #17
    axer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Hagar wrote: »
    I suppose if the advertising is directed solely at those people who hold a certain type of credit card then it is spot on. If Ryanair honestly wished to sell to only MBNA/Electron card holders via their campaign I'm sure they could easily get their hands on a mailing list that would target them exactly.

    But that is not what they are doing, is it? The adverts are directed at as many of the general public as possible regardless of their personal financial arrangements. I think I could safely say that the number of the public who don't have this specific credit card far outnumber those who do. The advertiser knows this and is being deliberately "cute" about the whole matter. So yes, the ads are misleading in as much as what they offer is not actually available to the majority of those who are targetted by the ad.
    It is possible for each of those to get the flights at that price if they want to plus Irish customers are not their only customers - the VISA electron card is also available in other countries too.


  • #18
    cast_iron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    axer wrote: »
    It is possible for each of those to get the flights at that price if they want to
    The Gift Card costs €6. I know Ryanair itself does not charge this fee, but any Irish person must pay it to get the flights from Ryanair for "€5".
    axer wrote: »
    plus Irish customers are not their only customers - the VISA electron card is also available in other countries too.
    Irrelevant. Irish ad and Irish laws apply.


    Ryanair will claim they are not responsible for an external companies fees. But if only one company in Ireland offers "Visa Electron", at a cost of €6, then the ad could well be judged to be "misleading".


  • #19
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,472 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    And the ASAI is powerless to do anything. The ASAI have found against Ryanair many times and Ryanair continue to advertise in breach of ASAI codes. Enuff said. :mad:


  • #20
    Kotek Besar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭Kotek Besar


    axer wrote: »
    Incorrect the purchaser is not forced to pay the CC fee.
    Well, yes, he is, actually. :rolleyes:
    axer wrote: »
    Incorrect, MBNA offer a Visa electron gift card whereby there are no fees.
    They did, but they don't anymore. In case, this was merely a gift card which cost €6 to buy and could not be topped up. It was never a debit card by the usual definition.
    axer wrote: »
    Your argument is incorrect in its entirety since it is possible for Irish customers to get the flight at the advertised price thus your complaint was a complete waste of time....next!
    axer, what a charming individual you are! Work for Ryanair by any chance do you? Or do you have another reason to try and steer away from the fact that Ryanair advertise a product to the Irish market, that could not be obtained by the majority of Irish residents, by any reasonable means, and now cannot be obtained at all?


  • #21
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    Tarakiwa wrote: »
    I think that they will care that the ASAI have informed the NCA - who do have powers and real teeth!!

    Lol. I'm sure Ryanair quake in their boots at the NCA.

    It would be hilarious if the National Consumer Agency starting picking on Ryanair.


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  • #22
    Gangu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 418 ✭✭Gangu


    The Economist wrote: »
    Lol. I'm sure Ryanair quake in their boots at the NCA.

    It would be hilarious if the National Consumer Agency starting picking on Ryanair.

    The NCA are fairly toothless as far as I can see, loads of rights and they dont exercise them. Their recent draft guidance on advertising is laughable.


  • #23
    jimmysull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭jimmysull


    Here is the status today:

    Ryanair are advertising "free flights including taxes & charges" on their website right now.
    However to book a return flight from dublin to Stansted costs €0.02 (which I can live with under the definition of "free") plus a handling charge of €20

    Therefore a flight which is boldly advertised as free costs €20.02 right now.

    Yes people from other countries can get it for €0.02 but an irish resident can't. This advertisement on the homepage is clearly targetted at irish residents as it clearly identifies me as being located in Ireland and serves up Euro pricing and Irish departure airports as the initial view. Ryanair are geographically targetting what is served on their website and therefore it is within their power to place a correct price on the page. Yet they choose to serve the Free (€20) flights ad to irish residents.

    This is false advertising by whatever standard you apply.


  • #24
    jimmysull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭jimmysull


    You can now make a consumer complaint to the NCA easily via their form:

    http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Working_With_You/Submit_a_Consumer_Complaint/

    If enough people actually take the time to make the complaint then the NCA will have to stop ignoring us


  • #25
    axer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    jimmysull wrote: »
    Here is the status today:

    Ryanair are advertising "free flights including taxes & charges" on their website right now.
    However to book a return flight from dublin to Stansted costs €0.02 (which I can live with under the definition of "free") plus a handling charge of €20

    Therefore a flight which is boldly advertised as free costs €20.02 right now.

    Yes people from other countries can get it for €0.02 but an irish resident can't. This advertisement on the homepage is clearly targetted at irish residents as it clearly identifies me as being located in Ireland and serves up Euro pricing and Irish departure airports as the initial view. Ryanair are geographically targetting what is served on their website and therefore it is within their power to place a correct price on the page. Yet they choose to serve the Free (€20) flights ad to irish residents.

    This is false advertising by whatever standard you apply.
    What about people who are resident in Ireland but have bank accounts elsewhere where the Visa Electron is offered? I understand that an Irish person, for example, can open a bank account in Spain and get a Visa electron card.


  • #26
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,472 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    It don't matter as Ryanair have been found guilty of misleading advertising before. As there are no penalties they shall continue on regardless. The ASAI and the NCA are powerless to act.


  • #27
    jimmysull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭jimmysull


    axer wrote: »
    What about people who are resident in Ireland but have bank accounts elsewhere where the Visa Electron is offered? I understand that an Irish person, for example, can open a bank account in Spain and get a Visa electron card.

    Only if you pretend you live in Spain or lived there before


  • #28
    Kotek Besar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭Kotek Besar


    jimmysull wrote: »
    Only if you pretend you live in Spain or lived there before

    Actually, if you live in Ireland and have never lived in Spain you can still open an account with Lloyds TSB Spain and get a Visa Electron card.


  • #29
    madmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,373 ✭✭✭madmoe


    Hi guys,
    Has anyone actually opened an account with Lloyds TSB Spain and gotten a Visa Electron card? I have just e-maile them there now....

    M


  • #30
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    You know what you should do- you should boycott them.

    I'm sure you can get flights for 20 euro elsewhere...................


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  • #31
    Kotek Besar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭Kotek Besar


    madmoe wrote: »
    Hi guys,
    Has anyone actually opened an account with Lloyds TSB Spain and gotten a Visa Electron card? I have just e-maile them there now....

    M

    Yes. See my reply on this thread.


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