Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Firearms officers may be better protected (legally)

  • 30-09-2008 05:12PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭


    Police would be freed from health and safety red tape under Tory plans due to be announced.

    In his keynote speech to the party's conference at Birmingham, shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve will pledge to change the "dangerous" rules which "undermine public confidence".

    A recent case saw police officers radio for help instead of trying to save a drowning boy because they were not trained in water rescue.* In another case, a woman shot and seriously hurt was left waiting for help as police stood outside because of health and safety fears. The proposed changes would prevent another police force facing a Jean Charles de Menezes-style prosecution under health and safety laws. Sources said the legislation was being misused and could lead to "defensive policing" in high pressure situations.

    Mr Grieve will tell the conference: "Health and safety legislation is holding police officers back (and) making them more risk-averse."

    "We now have a health and safety regime which is so stifling ... that it delayed armed officers attending the victims of a shooting for an hour after the gunman had fled but prosecuted them for mistakes made during the heat of a counter-terrorism operation."

    The changes would ensure commanders could put the safety of the public above the safety of their officers. Mr Grieve will also announce plans to stop so-called "have-a-go heroes" being arrested.

    ******************************

    This is an interesting development. Red-tape here has gotten so stifling that no matter what role you are in within the police environment everything has to be 'risk-assessed' often to the detriment of common sense.

    Now ordinarily this just means tedious and painful additional paperwork and a longer wait to clear crimes, while supervisors assess whats been done and risk assess the risk assessments (:rolleyes:), followed by Inspectors assessing the reassessed risk assessments, however in a critical incident (a life or death type situation) this can mean the difference between saving someone's life or, as has happened in Thames Valley where a senior officer on scene refused to allow officers into the scene of a shooting for over an hour for fear that a shooter might still be present, people can die.

    So many officers I know would not carry a firearm for the simple reason that AFOs are seen as being hung out to dry once they pull the trigger in a fatal shooting and who can say what the result might be of ongoing inquests and civil actions on future firearms incidents where an officer might just hesitate even for a split second knowing full-well that litigation is likely to follow....

    While I have no illusion that a shadow Home Secretary will promise the earth, moon and stars in the hope his party will look like a better bet in the next election, I do think this is the way forward. Anything that cuts ass-covering for the sake of ass-covering and puts the public ahead of pointless bureaucracy has got to be a good thing. If Police Officers are afforded greater protection, even better. Its also nice to see that the idea of 'having a go' being encouraged too.

    *This was actually community support officers, not police officers.

    Source


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    Risk Assessment process

    1. Remove
    2. Avoid
    3. Reduce
    4. Accept

    The powers that be seem to get stuck at #2 thinking it means 'Sit around, draw up a 15 point action plan... and then do nothing, thereby avoiding the risk.

    Risk Awareness, not Risk Aversion...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    This is a general theme thrughout policing in modern days and Im surprised that a politician has had the good sense and balls to say this out loud.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Metman and jon, I hope you did warming up exercises before typing those long posts! Health & Safety!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    Risk Assessments were completed and each finger was individually streched and flexed by a team of four female* PCSO's prior to deployment.

    *Not being sexist, just happened they were all female...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    deadwood wrote: »
    Metman and jon, I hope you did warming up exercises before typing those long posts! Health & Safety!

    You say that in jest...you haven't undergone Met box-lifting training.....its a half day course......I sheeeiiitt you not :D


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    With diagrams of pivots and fulcrums!!!... Oh the memories... I liked the audience participation bit where we all had to get up and lift the three different sized boxes the best.. you mean you didn't????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Another worthwhile day fighting crime :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭CLADA


    metman wrote: »
    You say that in jest...you haven't undergone Met box-lifting training.....its a half day course......I sheeeiiitt you not :D

    :eek:I can't believe the met, " The kings of abbreviation" have a simple box-lifting course.
    Over here we have a MHC done by the TTU in the GC.

    We also lift bigger boxes:P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    CLADA wrote: »
    :eek:I can't believe the met, " The kings of abbreviation" have a simple box-lifting course.
    Over here we have a MHC done by the TTU in the GC.

    We also lift bigger boxes:P
    WTF?:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    With diagrams of pivots and fulcrums!!!... Oh the memories... I liked the audience participation bit where we all had to get up and lift the three different sized boxes the best.. you mean you didn't????

    Deadlifts.... Police training style!!


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    metman wrote: »
    You say that in jest...you haven't undergone Met box-lifting training.....its a half day course......I sheeeiiitt you not :D

    Try a day lifting an empty box thats simulates a heavy box in case you hurt yourself lifting a box while learning how not to hurt yourself lifting a box. Ah yes, my first day in my first big boy job.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Try a day lifting an empty box thats simulates a heavy box in case you hurt yourself lifting a box while learning how not to hurt yourself lifting a box. Ah yes, my first day in my first big boy job.
    I thought it'd be funny when "testing" the weight to kick it half way across the floor. Apparantly I could hve hurt someone. On reflection, she was right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 bunk


    have now decided to get the finger out and join a few discussions, so hello to all.
    health and safety has gone beyond a joke in this job in some circumstances. for example i am part of a divisional search team where we may be required to use ladders, however you are not qualified to climb ladders until you have completed an instruction course, but there are none run within the job, just a minor example.
    If its that complicated to be able to climb a ladder can you see the brass honestly sitting back and allowing these rules/procedures be lessened(prob not best word) in more criticial circumstances, without having another health and safety meeting to discuss the health and safety implications of such a move,vicous circle me thinks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    CLADA wrote: »
    :eek:I can't believe the met, " The kings of abbreviation" have a simple box-lifting course.
    Over here we have a MHC done by the TTU in the GC.

    We also lift bigger boxes:P

    So that'd be a 'Mighty Heavy Ciardboard' course administered by the Tactical Training Unit? Sounds sexy. Do you get to dress up in ninja gear whilst lifting tactically? :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Have you stretched?
    Welcome Bunk. Why didn't I use that. I watched it before it was cool, you know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    Try a day lifting an empty box thats simulates a heavy box in case you hurt yourself lifting a box while learning how not to hurt yourself lifting a box. Ah yes, my first day in my first big boy job.

    I'm glad we're not the only ones...

    It was actually called manual handling if I remember... But they never abbreviated it... it was far to serious to be shortened...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Hello bunk and welcome. Grab a taste and mind the walters ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    Word up Bunk... Glad you joined us on the most important of important subjects 'elf and safety.

    (I've only started watching it since it became cool - Cheers Metman! - But I'm hooked and will unashamedly quote and refer to it as often as humanly possible. :D)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Da f*ck did I do? ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 bunk


    deadwood wrote: »
    Have you stretched?
    Welcome Bunk. Why didn't I use that. I watched it before it was cool, you know.

    thanks, was suprised myself that it was still availabe, but you dont know till you give it a go:D


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    bunk wrote: »
    thanks, was suprised myself that it was still availabe, but you dont know till you give it a go:D

    First person to appear as mcNulty gets an instant ban!

    No one one here is that cool...:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 bunk


    metman wrote: »
    Hello bunk and welcome. Grab a taste and mind the walters ;)

    thanks also, am up to scratch on the walters, just decided it was time to throw my two cents in, soon to be one cent if the overtime keeps drying up though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    bunk wrote: »
    thanks also, am up to scratch on the walters, just decided it was time to throw my two cents in, soon to be one cent if the overtime keeps drying up though.


    Aint that the truth....

    Could be worse, your pay increase could be a cent point nine in the Dollar


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    +1

    McNulty is too cool for school.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Aint that the truth....

    When I complained to the Guvnor about lack of OT he shrugged and said the borough is bankrupt. Damn credit crunch :D

    My solution....relocation, relocation, relocation!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 bunk


    Aint that the truth....

    Could be worse, your pay increase could be a cent point nine in the pound

    theres cause for a "health and safety" meeting to be held to assess the mental strain one may face in the course of figuring that one out:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Ye police officers have a habit of making no feckin sense whatsoever!! McNulty, sucking eggs. . . W in TF?? :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    eroo wrote: »
    Ye police officers have a habit of making no feckin sense whatsoever!! McNulty, sucking eggs. . . W in TF?? :D

    Hey!!!!...Hey.... no one....no one tells McNulty how to suck eggs... get it...alright....

    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Hey!!!!...Hey.... no one....no one tells McNulty how to suck eggs... get it...alright....

    :D

    I feel like Deadwoods signature...

    :pac:


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    eroo wrote: »
    I feel like Deadwoods signature...

    :pac:
    You're not getting near my egg.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭CLADA


    metman wrote: »
    So that'd be a 'Mighty Heavy Ciardboard' course administered by the Tactical Training Unit? Sounds sexy. Do you get to dress up in ninja gear whilst lifting tactically? :eek:

    Most lads would have ST's for the heavier lifts, no fancy gear though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    CLADA wrote: »
    Most lads would have ST's for the heavier lifts, no fancy gear though.
    What use are sanitary towels for lifting boxes?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    deadwood wrote: »
    You're not getting near my egg.

    Who said I wanted it?:p

    Predictions:a)We're all getting infractions for off topic chatting
    b)Deadwoods egg will be mine

    Seriously though, on topic, firearms officers do need better protection. I remember reading in Roger Gray's SO19 book that one of his colleagues ended up with desk duties for 6 months as a result of using his firearm in the course of duty. That's ridiculous in my opinion from a civvie pov, let alone what ye must think. Firearms officers should be treated much better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭CLADA


    deadwood wrote: »
    What use are sanitary towels for lifting boxes?

    Support Tights.....silly:D and i don't mind where the towels are made, either Ballymun or Sanitary, I'm not fussy:o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭FGR


    Don't forget that you must complete the driving to work course prior to participating in the looking at the ladder course and admiring the ladder course.

    Only then will you be allowed climb up that ladder. But what do you do when you get to the top you might ask? Well..AGS has come up with an international policing first!..You participate in the climbing down course. ;)!!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    CLADA wrote: »
    Support Tights.....silly:D and i don't mind where the towels are made, either Ballymun or Sanitary, I'm not fussy:o
    Sanitary clause? I don't believe in no sanitary clause.

    Oh yeah, back on topic erm...sig sour 9mm... keep your back bent and your legs straight...or something.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    deadwood wrote: »
    ...sig sour 9mm...

    That's a cocktail isn't it? Sig sour, shaken not stirred?

    Thank you, I'm here all week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Don't forget that you must complete the driving to work course prior to participating in the looking at the ladder course and admiring the ladder course.

    Only then will you be allowed climb up that ladder. But what do you do when you get to the top you might ask? Well..AGS has come up with an international policing first!..You participate in the climbing down course. ;)!!
    One step at a time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    metman wrote: »
    That's a cocktail isn't it? Sig sour, shaken not stirred?

    Thank you, I'm here all week.
    I must have been thinking of a Walter PPK!:D


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement